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RC "getting it" the way JM never did... OR NOT

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Old
02-12-2012, 01:20 PM
  #51
LowBallFern
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Originally Posted by MasterDecoy View Post
^ pretty sure you forgot a 'lol' or two in your post
lol
have nice day...

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02-12-2012, 01:33 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Schooner Guy View Post
Did I say anything negative about Cunneyworth? Nope. My point is actually very similar to yours only I was directing it at the Martin bashers who can't seem to move on since his firing. You seem to think I'm bashing Cunneyworth when I'm not.

EDIT: Interesting how if I defend Jacques Martin, it is assumed on this board that I must be against his successor. Reminds me of Price vs Halak, Koivu vs Ribeiro etc.
So why are you defending Martin? Was it because he had a successful run in Ottawa because that success hasn't followed him to Florida or Montreal.

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02-12-2012, 01:34 PM
  #53
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Certain players have stepped up their game and its making the coach look pretty good right now.

Pacioretty is a streaky player and he is clearly on one of his upswings as of late. Emelin has eveolved into a pretty trustworthy d-man which gives RC a much needed extra tool on D. I also think Carey Price is playing is best hockey of the season, and PK Subban seems to have simplified his game, and he's getting rewards out of it. Darche is also looking like the darche of last year.

Its probably too late this year to make a run, but it reminds you that things aren't as bad as they once appeared.

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02-12-2012, 01:39 PM
  #54
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Give me an all-star powerplay forward and an Andrei Markov and it doesn't matter who coaches this team, just ask Guy Carbonneau.

Hopefully whoever coaches next year gets the luxury of a healthy #79.

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02-12-2012, 01:43 PM
  #55
hockeyfan2k11
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This is a far better team with Cunney.

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Old
02-12-2012, 01:47 PM
  #56
Schooner Guy
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Originally Posted by HCH View Post
So why are you defending Martin? Was it because he had a successful run in Ottawa because that success hasn't followed him to Florida or Montreal.
He wasn't successful in Montreal? Interesting. Is that because he couldn't get us past the Flyers and into the Final in 2010 or because last year's Stanley Cup champions got by us in 7 games despite winning only one game in regulation time?

What did you expect from Martin with this team? Back to back Stanley Cups?

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02-12-2012, 01:50 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Hackett View Post
Certain players have stepped up their game and its making the coach look pretty good right now.

Pacioretty is a streaky player and he is clearly on one of his upswings as of late. Emelin has eveolved into a pretty trustworthy d-man which gives RC a much needed extra tool on D. I also think Carey Price is playing is best hockey of the season, and PK Subban seems to have simplified his game, and he's getting rewards out of it. Darche is also looking like the darche of last year.

Its probably too late this year to make a run, but it reminds you that things aren't as bad as they once appeared.
Sounds like a win streak. We'll win some more games this year but we'll also lose some more games this year. People here get too high during the peaks and too low during the valleys.

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Old
02-12-2012, 03:50 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
This is a far better team with Cunney.
Yup, now that he dropped the 2 man forecheck at all time to a system closer to what JM used we look WAY better...

good for him to realize we're much better when playing a tighter defensive game, only problem is, it's not his system it's the one his predecessor used the last 2 and a half seasons...

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Old
02-12-2012, 05:17 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by The Kremelin Wall View Post
Brilliant strategies such as.. Halak, go to the net.
No kidding!

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Old
02-12-2012, 05:46 PM
  #60
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Kaberle is a classic example of a player who is getting older, which means his metabolism is also slowing down. Instead of working harder in the off-season he continues to work out the same way he always has. He has spent all year attempting to get into NHL playing shape. He has skill, but really isn't putting in the professionalism required to be a continually good ageing player.

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Old
02-12-2012, 05:53 PM
  #61
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Who's the better coach is debatable.
The obvious differences are at lest:

1. RC shows some emotion behind the bench vs JM taking note
2. There're more forechecking under RC vs play not to lose with JM
3. RC doesn't pull anyone under the bus with him vs JM constantly blaming young players after a lost

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Old
02-12-2012, 05:54 PM
  #62
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Under Martin, we went the furthest in the playoff since the last cup. Its easy to kick a guy when he his down, but cant take away that fact. Lets see where Cunney leads us...

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02-12-2012, 05:55 PM
  #63
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Cunneyworth also knows how to work with young players. Martin did not know how to adapt from his old school style of coaching.

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Old
02-12-2012, 06:11 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Schooner Guy View Post
This is too funny. We've won four in a row....including 3 wins against teams that probably aren't going to make the playoffs and the other win was in a shootout at home. We got outshot 32-18 last night by the Leafs but we won mainly because our goalie played like the star he is and their goalies absolutely stunk. And now we're attributing our recent play to Randy Cunneyworth "getting it" and Jacques Martin (600+ wins) not getting it. Talk about a funny way of looking at the world and drawing conclusions.

This board can be great at times for laugh therapy. Both Randy Cunneyworth and Jacques Martin would have a good laugh if they ever read this thread.
On the first three Leaf PPs, weren't they held to a total of one SOG? Price had little to do.

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Old
02-12-2012, 06:48 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
Yup, now that he dropped the 2 man forecheck at all time to a system closer to what JM used we look WAY better...

good for him to realize we're much better when playing a tighter defensive game, only problem is, it's not his system it's the one his predecessor used the last 2 and a half seasons...
I guess Hitchcock has Martin to thank too, huh? You Martin fanboys are ridiculous.

Martin employed the most passive system I have ever seen. Our goalies faced 30+ shots a night and the team played in their own end the entire game and you are celebrating this garbage?

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Old
02-12-2012, 06:51 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Schooner Guy View Post
You must do what you can with the hand you've been dealt. How else was that Habs team going to eliminate Washington and Pittsburgh? Let's not forget the Habs did a great job in the neutral zone in both those series. The Caps and Pens superstars rarely moved into our zone with any steam.
I still believe that the Habs had a better offensive team than what they've shown under Martin. He was dealt one of the fastest teams in the NHL and he wasn't using that asset to forecheck and spread the defense. Instead, he asked all 5 players to clog up the front of the net, therefore not generating any offense.

Again, if that's a strategy... it's called pure luck.

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Old
02-12-2012, 06:52 PM
  #67
hockeyfan2k11
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Originally Posted by Patofqc View Post
Under Martin, we went the furthest in the playoff since the last cup. Its easy to kick a guy when he his down, but cant take away that fact. Lets see where Cunney leads us...
An idiot could see that the team relied on out of this world goaltending and Cam/Gio scoring big goals.

We were facing like 40+ frigging shots a game and you credit the coach for that? OK, well, we can give Martin credit for the two series wins. But what about the complete obliteration by the Flyers in the 3rd round? Halak looked human and Cam/Gionta couldn't score and low and behold we lost... Completely outclassed in 4 of the 5 games.

Martin gets legendary status around here for some reason.

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Old
02-12-2012, 08:54 PM
  #68
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RC's actually starting to get it... in a way JM has for years.

It took way too many games for him to figure out he needed to send out Plekanec and the Subban pairing against top opposition. The PP is scoring again... but all three goals were scored using Martin's inverted-shooter overload scheme, not the umbrella approach that killed the PP's scoring chance generation (that is, when they could get setup at all because of the incessant dump and chase). And so on.

(And I have to sacrastically suggest that Blunden getting hurt prevented RC from overusing his worst forward in roles he isn't suited for. I am somewhat worried about this Schultz recall.)

Randy's coaching more and more like Martin was, at least in the sense he's started doing things any reasonably decent NHL coach would. He's got a ways to go yet, but he's a lot better than the disaster he was when he first took over.

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Old
02-12-2012, 08:57 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
Martin employed the most passive system I have ever seen. Our goalies faced 30+ shots a night and the team played in their own end the entire game and you are celebrating this garbage?
You might want to double-check the stats. The Habs under Martin were a strong outshooting team, they allowed well under 30 shots a night, and in fact were top-5 in shot prevention.

I believe they've dipped a bit under Randy, in that regard, actually.

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Old
02-12-2012, 09:12 PM
  #70
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I liked JM imposing a defensive system to the players, the hard way. If you compare our defensive game in the JM era, moved then into the RC era to the way they were playing before, there is no comparison. I still remember Kovalev floating at the opposing blue line waiting for the break out pass. And the complete lack of defensive awareness of some guys back then, including AK46.

JM hammered defensive awareness into our forwards. The "all 5 guys in the picture" rule that Cammaleri openly disagreed with in an interview.

RC is a good coach for sure. Game awareness, good communication skills, quickly adapting. However, the style of play that got us the last few victories would probably not win us much in the Playoffs. I still want to see from his team a big comeback from a 2-3 goal deficit or the team holding on a 1 goal lead for the third period - cause this is what you need when the games really count.

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Old
02-12-2012, 09:13 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by MathMan View Post
You might want to double-check the stats. The Habs under Martin were a strong outshooting team, they allowed well under 30 shots a night, and in fact were top-5 in shot prevention.

I believe they've dipped a bit under Randy, in that regard, actually.
Do you see the words outshot or outshoot anywhere in my post? And you had the audacity to get "smart" with your response too. I clearly said in the playoffs we gave up a lot of shots...many 40+ shot nights. So why don't you check your stats!

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Old
02-12-2012, 09:24 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
Do you see the words outshot or outshoot anywhere in my post? And you had the audacity to get "smart" with your response too. I clearly said in the playoffs we gave up a lot of shots...many 40+ shot nights. So why don't you check your stats!
Yea mathman, you should really start checking some numbers before posting again, I mean, you know, numbers from the various sites out there. You can find them on google.

Joke aside, I could not find any mention of the playoffs in the post mathman referred to so I think it was logical to assume it was for the whole season. As for the playoffs ... when you play against teams that have twice the skill and power you have - the strategy that gives you the highest odds of victory (though not great ones) does include giving 40+ shots per game.

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02-12-2012, 09:41 PM
  #73
hockeyfan2k11
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Originally Posted by Newhabfan View Post
Yea mathman, you should really start checking some numbers before posting again, I mean, you know, numbers from the various sites out there. You can find them on google.

Joke aside, I could not find any mention of the playoffs in the post mathman referred to so I think it was logical to assume it was for the whole season. As for the playoffs ... when you play against teams that have twice the skill and power you have - the strategy that gives you the highest odds of victory (though not great ones) does include giving 40+ shots per game.
It was not logical to assume I was talking about the whole season as I specifically said that the Habs relied on great goaltending and Gio/Cammy scoring big goals. And this was in direct response to the poster who said we went far with Martin in the playoffs.

So you're goin to sit there with a straight face and tell me that allowing a skilled team to take 40+ shots a game gives you the best odds to victory? WTF? Jacques, is that you?

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Old
02-12-2012, 10:52 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by Pernell Karl View Post
Emelin was getting scratched every second game or benched every time he made a mistake with Martin, he's got better and better with RC because Randy let's him learn from his mistakes and has played him almost every game since he's taken over as head coach.
Louis Leblanc also.

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Old
02-12-2012, 10:57 PM
  #75
SouthernHab
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Originally Posted by Hackett View Post
Certain players have stepped up their game and its making the coach look pretty good right now.

Pacioretty is a streaky player and he is clearly on one of his upswings as of late. Emelin has eveolved into a pretty trustworthy d-man which gives RC a much needed extra tool on D. I also think Carey Price is playing is best hockey of the season, and PK Subban seems to have simplified his game, and he's getting rewards out of it. Darche is also looking like the darche of last year.

Its probably too late this year to make a run, but it reminds you that things aren't as bad as they once appeared.
Not to sound simplistic, but that is what good coaches do. Get their players to step up their game.

Cunneyworth has a lot to learn. I am pleased to see the Habs not sitting on leads as in the past. They had their foot to the pedal all the way against Toronto. Poor Jacques would not have allowed that.

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