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Sharks at Caps 7:30 PM 2/13/2012

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Old
02-13-2012, 02:05 PM
  #101
brs03
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Originally Posted by californiacapsfan View Post
A question: They also gave up a ton of D zone time when they were still playing zone. So what was the cause then? If it's personnel, then why is that not the reason now. If this were a new problem, it would make more sense to blame man to man, but as it is a chronic long-term problem, I'm not sure that's the whole story.
My thinking is just that it's the players being stupid. They're so, so bad about being on the same page for things like sending the pucks around the board to each other.

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02-13-2012, 02:09 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by brs03 View Post
My thinking is just that it's the players being stupid. They're so, so bad about being on the same page for things like sending the pucks around the board to each other.
This. The failure to be in position to receive a pass yesterday, in all 3 zones really, was alarming. For those bashing Ovie (some of it is deserved for sure) but I can think of 4 separate occasions, just off the top of my head, where he had the puck behind the NY goal line and no one went anywhere near the slot or the front of the net and his passes ended up harmlessly landing on Ranger sticks.

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02-13-2012, 02:35 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by RandyHolt View Post
Perhaps it's Mike Green more than any system. Get him in the lineup, teams wont be so bull headed in just trying to pin us down. With Wideman as our best overall Dman now, maybe teams are just seeing little risk in going for it. Wideman is racking up the points to counter, but he isn't MG52, and isn't scaring anyone in our defensive zone. We are young and teams should be getting after us.

Sure they targeted Green to be hit, but they perhaps had to do that to beat us.

Get a healthy Green back in the mix, and its just gotta help in all areas of the game. Gotta.
Wait, let me get this straight, you think that having Mike Green - a tiny, defensive liability, injury prone man - back in the lineup will prevent our team from getting hemmed in our own zone?

He'll certainly help the transition game once we've already regained possession in our own zone. Other than that I don't see him doing anything to help us defensively.

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02-13-2012, 02:47 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by KevinM View Post
Wait, let me get this straight, you think that having Mike Green - a tiny, defensive liability, injury prone man - back in the lineup will prevent our team from getting hemmed in our own zone?

He'll certainly help the transition game once we've already regained possession in our own zone. Other than that I don't see him doing anything to help us defensively.
Greens a defensively liability? Sorry is it 2009 again?

If Greens a defensive liability what the hell do you call Wideman and Carlson?

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02-13-2012, 03:13 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by KevinM View Post
Wait, let me get this straight, you think that having Mike Green - a tiny, defensive liability, injury prone man - back in the lineup will prevent our team from getting hemmed in our own zone?

He'll certainly help the transition game once we've already regained possession in our own zone. Other than that I don't see him doing anything to help us defensively.
Come on. That's just stupid. Mike Green is the only defenseman we have who can carry the puck end-to-end. Also, 6'1" 207 is tiny? How big are you? He's not massive but he doesn't get pushed around physically either.

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02-13-2012, 03:13 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by KevinM View Post
Wait, let me get this straight, you think that having Mike Green - a tiny, defensive liability, injury prone man - back in the lineup will prevent our team from getting hemmed in our own zone?

He'll certainly help the transition game once we've already regained possession in our own zone. Other than that I don't see him doing anything to help us defensively.
Tiny?

How do you know

I thought he did just fine last year after making an obvious effort to be stronger in his own zone. I think a part of the Yzerman snub. To me, it was always injuries slowing him down.

I guess being a suspected noob here, you haven't heard many people theorize over the years that as so went Mike Green, so went the entire team. I may be wrong, but it seemed a generally accepted belief, as far as internet arguing goes.

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02-13-2012, 03:16 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by RandyHolt View Post
Tiny?

How do you know

I thought he did just fine last year after making an obvious effort to be stronger in his own zone. To me, it was always injuries slowing him down.

I guess being a suspected noob here, you haven't heard many people theorize over the years that as so went Mike Green, so went the entire team. I may be wrong, but it seemed a generally accepted belief, as far as internet arguing goes.
Until he is no longer effective, he remains the single most important player on this team. But his loss wasn't a viable excuse for Bruce, so it isn't for Dale.

But yes, I would expect that if Green comes back in time, the team will comfortably make the playoffs.

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02-13-2012, 03:24 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by CapsGreat08AO View Post
Greens a defensively liability? Sorry is it 2009 again?

If Greens a defensive liability what the hell do you call Wideman and Carlson?
Wideman and Carlson have both been more physical and positionally sound than Green has ever been. Admittedly Carlson is a turnover machine this year and Wideman has had some issues keeping the puck in the offensive zone. Defensively neither has been spectacular but both are still better than Green in our own end.
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Originally Posted by SDBondra View Post
Come on. That's just stupid. Mike Green is the only defenseman we have who can carry the puck end-to-end. Also, 6'1" 207 is tiny? How big are you? He's not massive but he doesn't get pushed around physically either.
Okay, carrying the puck from end-to-end isn't going to affect our play when we don't have puck possession which is what I was referring to, you're making a straw man. We must not be watching the same Green if you don't think he gets pushed around physically. If that were the case he wouldn't get destroyed by forecheckers and be injured all the time. 207 is small compared to many defensemen and power forwards in the league. In any case, he doesn't play physically at all. Ever.

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02-13-2012, 03:25 PM
  #109
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Aren't we like 9-1 with him in the lineup this year? He is a huge part of our transition game and our offense. You have Green on the ice with Ovie and/or Semin and they get more ice because teams also have to worry about Green sneaking in and potting one. He changes the whole dynamic of our offense IMO.

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Old
02-13-2012, 03:26 PM
  #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinM View Post
. In any case, he doesn't play physically at all. Ever.
Frolik would say differently.

He doesnt go for the hits constantly but he does from time to time play a physical brand of hockey.

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Old
02-13-2012, 03:28 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by KevinM View Post
Wideman and Carlson have both been more physical and positionally sound than Green has ever been. Admittedly Carlson is a turnover machine this year and Wideman has had some issues keeping the puck in the offensive zone. Defensively neither has been spectacular but both are still better than Green in our own end.
Okay, carrying the puck from end-to-end isn't going to affect our play when we don't have puck possession which is what I was referring to, you're making a straw man. We must not be watching the same Green if you don't think he gets pushed around physically. If that were the case he wouldn't get destroyed by forecheckers and be injured all the time. 207 is small compared to many defensemen and power forwards in the league. In any case, he doesn't play physically at all. Ever.
I get the impression you don't watch the Caps' defense closely at all.

And Green doesn't play physically ever?




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02-13-2012, 03:33 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by KevinM View Post
Wideman and Carlson have both been more physical and positionally sound than Green has ever been. Admittedly Carlson is a turnover machine this year and Wideman has had some issues keeping the puck in the offensive zone. Defensively neither has been spectacular but both are still better than Green in our own end.
Carlson, Wideman physical? There not soft but I'd say all three are pretty equal in the physicality department. There's no clear edge to any of them. Wideman and Carlson both throw the puck anywhere most of the time.

Even if they are better defensively than Green (they aren't) Green still moves the puck of the zone ten times more effectively than either. Equaling a lot less time the Capitals are stuck in there own zone. At the end of the day that's one of the most important aspects of defense transitioning out of your zone. Less time spent in your zone= Lots less goals scored against your team.

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02-13-2012, 03:35 PM
  #113
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So he has elbowed two people in the face in his career and the Kapanen hit wouldn't have been nearly as bad if he (Kapanen that is) didn't leave his skates. Pointing to outliers where he has actually hit people doesn't mean he's a physical defenseman. Semin had a game shortly after Hunter arrived where he was checking everything that moved, I wouldn't consider him a physical forward because the rest of his career indicates otherwise.

I miss Hannan.

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02-13-2012, 03:38 PM
  #114
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Well, things could be worse. You could be a Columbus Blue Jackets fan. Like me. And partake in the season we're enduring.

I'm in DC for a few days and will be in attendance. Hopefully this one can be as spectacular as the last Caps game I attended in person, during the Intermission between the two rounds of Snowmaggedon 2010!



edit- If it makes you feel better, I'm 2-0-0 all-time at Caps games and, when seeing a game on the road or between two non-CBJ teams, have never seen the home team lose.


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02-13-2012, 03:39 PM
  #115
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The problem with us getting the puck out of the zone is when we get the puck were throwing it blindly up the wall at times. Insert Green and you have someone that thinks breakout pass or Ill just take it myself. So I dont understand why its a stretch to believe that when Green comes back that that part of our game gets better. To think otherwise doesnt make much sense IMO.

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02-13-2012, 03:42 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by KevinM View Post
So he has elbowed two people in the face in his career and the Kapanen hit wouldn't have been nearly as bad if he (Kapanen that is) didn't leave his skates. Pointing to outliers where he has actually hit people doesn't mean he's a physical defenseman. Semin had a game shortly after Hunter arrived where he was checking everything that moved, I wouldn't consider him a physical forward because the rest of his career indicates otherwise.

I miss Hannan.
You said "he doesn't play physically at all. Ever."

I provided three examples to prove that wrong, none of which was elbowing anyone in the face.

I bet you'd have whooped Larry Murphy out of town.

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02-13-2012, 03:42 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by CapsGreat08AO View Post
Carlson, Wideman physical? There not soft but I'd say all three are pretty equal in the physicality department. There's no clear edge to any of them. Wideman and Carlson both throw the puck anywhere most of the time.
More physical, it's a relative term. Obviously neither of them are Scott Stevens or Kronwall, but they pin people to the boards and throw their bodies around more than Green does.

Quote:
Even if they are better defensively than Green (they aren't) Green still moves the puck of the zone ten times more effectively than either. Equaling a lot less time the Capitals are stuck in there own zone. At the end of the day that's one of the most important aspects of defense transitioning out of your zone. Less time spent in your zone= Lots less goals scored against your team.
I agree that he's by far and away our best transition man, but again, I was speaking about actually defending without the puck which he does suck at more than Carlson and Wideman.

Edit: ^ Lrn2hyperbole

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02-13-2012, 03:53 PM
  #118
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mike green is dirty. he has arguably the best counter hit in the league right now. he smart enough not to take a lot of cheap penalties but he can hurt you. frankly he should use that to send a message to leave him alone much more often than he does.

like letang does

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02-13-2012, 04:07 PM
  #119
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OK how many Perreault's goals I should predict?
Or Schultz's assists?

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02-13-2012, 04:08 PM
  #120
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like letang does
Yeah, but the Pens also have made it clear that if anyone hits Letang too hard -- even if legal - they will be held accountable. Ask Jay Beagle.

We have never sent a similar message (at least not since Brash was inthe lineup) and, unsurprisingly, Green has become a target of the opposition which, unsurprisingly, has made him even more injury prone.

If/when he comes back, the first guy that hits him a nano-second late -- you know, "finishes his check" -- has to be pummeled. We have to start sending a message that you can't take liberties with certain of our guys.

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02-13-2012, 04:15 PM
  #121
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Going tonight, where to park?

coming from Baltimore, dont wanna take the MARC just in case i miss the last train home. Where are some good places to park?

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02-13-2012, 04:22 PM
  #122
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Originally Posted by CBJSprague24 View Post
Well, things could be worse. You could be a Columbus Blue Jackets fan. Like me. And partake in the season we're enduring.

I'm in DC for a few days and will be in attendance. Hopefully this one can be as spectacular as the last Caps game I attended in person, during the Intermission between the two rounds of Snowmaggedon 2010!



edit- If it makes you feel better, I'm 2-0-0 all-time at Caps games and, when seeing a game on the road or between two non-CBJ teams, have never seen the home team lose.

Definitely one of my favorite Caps memories.
Had no power, freezing cold for half a week, had a little bit of battery in my phone, getting updates from this game. Was epic seeing that they had probably lost and then getting a bunch of updates of them coming back

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02-13-2012, 04:31 PM
  #123
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Aren't we like 9-1 with him in the lineup this year? He is a huge part of our transition game and our offense. You have Green on the ice with Ovie and/or Semin and they get more ice because teams also have to worry about Green sneaking in and potting one. He changes the whole dynamic of our offense IMO.
could not agree more with this statement..he changes how we play completely with his puck moving and skating ability

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02-13-2012, 04:37 PM
  #124
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I get the impression you don't watch the Caps' defense closely at all.

And Green doesn't play physically ever?
He does have some big hits. But when I think of Mike Green I see him holding the puck a second to long and get crushed again and again from the for check.

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02-13-2012, 05:09 PM
  #125
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Why hast Boruque been given a chance? Same old same old with him being too small and such. Or Mafki just hates him for leaving. Whatever.

Man. There isnt much of anything at the AHL level to help. There needs to be a shot of something injected into the NHL roster before its too late.
Steroids? :p

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