HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > New York Rangers
Notices

Chris Botta on Chris Kreider (All Kreider discussion)

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
02-13-2012, 03:15 PM
  #76
NYR Viper
Moderator
 
NYR Viper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: PA
Country: United States
Posts: 28,066
vCash: 500
I think Kreider will sign a PTO with the Whale and play for Team USA at the WC's again like he has the past (2) years. That will be great experience for him.

I am not sure on this but if he signs a PTO and the Whale lose in the PO's, can he come up and practice with the Rangers? Probably not right?

NYR Viper is offline  
Old
02-13-2012, 03:32 PM
  #77
SlingshotVv
nerdy wrist-locks
 
SlingshotVv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Jersey City, NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 1,467
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ColonialsHockey10 View Post
There is so much wrong with this post.

I have seen Kreider at least 25 times since we drafted him, as have many many other posters here. From the WJC, to the WHC (I'll get to this later) to his frequently televised games, he's been viewed heavily from our fans, more so then any other prospect we have, a far cry from Bobby freaking Sanguinetti. This is the only prospect in our system where local people that frequently see these players don't have a superior opinion, we've all seen Kreider, and there's a reason we are so high on him. If he didn't have a flaw then there's no reason he wouldn't be the best prospect in hockey. What many people in this tread have mentioned, his "problem" is remedied very easy with a guy like Tortorella. For every person who is underwhelmed, there are twice as many fans that are incredibly impressed with how he plays.

Nobody has ever called Kreider a first year all-star. People have high expectations for his career, because his tools and skill set are through the roof, but nobody expects insane #'s his rookie year. Carl Hagelin and Derek Stepan both came in and put up good numbers as rookies (Hagelin likely would score 20 if he played an entire season), and Kreider is every bit as good of a prospect. There's no reason he can't be a 20 goal scorer his rookie year.

Brad Richards was amazed at his play before camp. The Rangers brass think he is going to be a go to player, and he was selected over every single american prospect at the age of 18 to play with men at the world hockey championships, where he has looked great. He was selected by a committee of NHL GM's and coaches for that tournament, the literal be-all-end-all to this argument. Last year he looked better then Craig Smith IMO, who is currently have an fantastic rookie season in the NHL and looks to be a dangerous top 6 player. And as an 18 year old he was getting bottom 6 minutes, surely he can't be a hard working, defensively responsible player if he's lazy and floats, and needs to be "whipped into shape".

1. You need to lurk more if you think no-one's said he's not first year all-star capable. Cap hit aside I've seen arguments made that he'll outscore Jeff Carter and Rick Nash on his ELC. That puts him at all-star level on his first contract.

2. "he's been viewed heavily from our fans, more so then any other prospect we have, a far cry from Bobby freaking Sanguinetti. This is the only prospect in our system where local people that frequently see these players don't have a superior opinion, we've all seen Kreider, and there's a reason we are so high on him."

Bobby Sangs was a prospect where local people had the leg up on him, which worked out great considering he was a freaking local prospect. Half the NJ NYR fans had seen him play on the Rockets. NYR fans had played against him, coached against him, and brought their kids to games that he played in. How can you think Kreider has been viewed more than Sangs was by NYR fans? His career was much more intrinsic to local fans than Kreider. So what in the hell are you talking about?

The whole point to my post: we've had highly hyped players before, rushing him might not be the best judgement call, let's wait and see. Yours is what exactly? He's the best prospect in the game once Torts gets his hands on him, no more proof is needed? I don't get it

SlingshotVv is offline  
Old
02-13-2012, 04:30 PM
  #78
ColonialsHockey10
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 9,414
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SlingshotVv View Post
1. You need to lurk more if you think no-one's said he's not first year all-star capable. Cap hit aside I've seen arguments made that he'll outscore Jeff Carter and Rick Nash on his ELC. That puts him at all-star level on his first contract.
Just because you read one poster say something absurd like that doesn't mean that's the general consensus. Especially since you essentially grouped all Rangers fans together by saying there's a disconnect, when that's incredibly untrue. There is no disconnect, nearly everyone here has watched Kreider multiple times and has formed a concrete opinion about him. Therefore he is much different from all of our other prospects.

Quote:
2. "he's been viewed heavily from our fans, more so then any other prospect we have, a far cry from Bobby freaking Sanguinetti. This is the only prospect in our system where local people that frequently see these players don't have a superior opinion, we've all seen Kreider, and there's a reason we are so high on him.". Bobby Sangs was a prospect where local people had the leg up on him, which worked out great considering he was a freaking local prospect. Half the NJ NYR fans had seen him play on the Rockets. NYR fans had played against him, coached against him, and brought their kids to games that he played in. How can you think Kreider has been viewed more than Sangs was by NYR fans? His career was much more intrinsic to local fans than Kreider. So what in the hell are you talking about?
I'm not sure if you're serious here, if you are this is pretty funny. Are you actually going to pull out scouting reports of people watching Bobby Sanguinetti when he was 14 years old? He played for 2 years in the OHL before he was drafted lol. Hell, his peewee banner hung in the arena I played high school hockey in, that doesn't change the fact that nobody from our fanbase watched him nearly as much in the OHL as with Kreider, not even remotely close. By that logic we're all more familiar with JvR as well, who cares if he was playing for the Nation Development Program 2 years before he was drafted, he's local. I played against Jonny Gaudraeu tons of times during high school, since then he's grown 4 inches and is twice the player he once was, I'm not claiming to be an expert on him. Kreider's games, whether on the college or international stage, are frequently televised and it's a fact that more people on this board have seen him play on TV and live then people who hoofed it up to Owen Sound to catch Sanguinetti play.

Quote:
The whole point to my post: we've had highly hyped players before, rushing him might not be the best judgement call, let's wait and see. Yours is what exactly? He's the best prospect in the game once Torts gets his hands on him, no more proof is needed? I don't get it
I completely agree that he shouldn't play for the Rangers this year, I never argued that. But your post that I quoted made absurdly incorrect statements that may apply to other prospects in our system, but not Kreider, who most people here have formed a substantial opinion on, mostly positively.

And pasting 2 different statements of mine together to make it seem like one is a horrible way of going about your argument. You basically said the only opinions that matter are those of people who see him in person, and proved you have actually never watched him saying things like he needs to be "whipped into shape". And I tell you that the people that are paid millions of dollars a year to build hockey teams picked him above every other American in his age group, 2 years running. Wanting a 1st round pick forward to make an NHL team, 3 years removed from his draft when he's 6'3" 230 is hardly rushing. He's no longer raw (I'd argue he hasn't been "raw" in over 2 years. Dylan McIlrath is what it means for a prospect to be raw), he's ready for the NHL.


Last edited by ColonialsHockey10: 02-13-2012 at 04:38 PM.
ColonialsHockey10 is offline  
Old
02-13-2012, 04:40 PM
  #79
SnowblindNYR
Registered User
 
SnowblindNYR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 17,218
vCash: 500
I read on other forums that he's been disappointing. Anyone get the same opinion?

SnowblindNYR is offline  
Old
02-13-2012, 04:48 PM
  #80
msv957
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,044
vCash: 500
I have no doubts with the way this Ranger organization develops their prospects that Kreider will be put in positions to succeed and gain lots of confidence early in his Pro career. This is all Kreider can ask for. The rest is up to him.

Just watching Kreider, he screams NHL player. Another Gem of a pick by Gordie Clark

msv957 is offline  
Old
02-13-2012, 05:54 PM
  #81
Rabid Ranger
Imperiled Knight
 
Rabid Ranger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: The Abyss
Country: United States
Posts: 19,326
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SnowblindNYR View Post
I read on other forums that he's been disappointing. Anyone get the same opinion?
Disappointing how? He's the 3rd leading junior in Div. 1. in the country. He's having a great season.

Rabid Ranger is offline  
Old
02-13-2012, 05:57 PM
  #82
SnowblindNYR
Registered User
 
SnowblindNYR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 17,218
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rabid Ranger View Post
Disappointing how? He's the 3rd leading junior in Div. 1. in the country. He's having a great season.
I think I read something about him being a floater and lazy.

SnowblindNYR is offline  
Old
02-13-2012, 06:03 PM
  #83
GAGLine
Registered User
 
GAGLine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 9,054
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SnowblindNYR View Post
I think I read something about him being a floater and lazy.
Don't believe everything you read.

GAGLine is offline  
Old
02-13-2012, 06:14 PM
  #84
Fitzy
All Is Well
 
Fitzy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 19,903
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by SnowblindNYR View Post
I think I read something about him being a floater and lazy.
I don't think he is lazy, but yes, he often looks and plays like a floater.

Add to that that he is deliberate about everything he does. The best NHL players just know what to do in offensive and defensive situations. Chris sets up like he is audibly reading off a how-to textbook on back-checking, power play, ect.

Maybe Torts will have a good impact on him. I refuse to get overly excited about a kid who, as of right now, is a ton of skill and very little brain.

__________________
"I have something better than proof: I have anecdotal evidence."
Fitzy is offline  
Old
02-13-2012, 06:41 PM
  #85
jas
Unsatisfied
 
jas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: NJ
Posts: 13,020
vCash: 500
I fail to how an individual who has the discipline and work ethic to complete his degree at a major college, somehow will translate into being lazy on the ice. Or a player who has a reputation of being very coachable somehow translates to being a floater.

As for Ranger fans hyping him, it wasn't a Ranger fan that called him the best hockey prospect to come of New England since Brian Leetch.

There were a few of us onto this kid before he was even drafted. Hatrick Swayze was the first poster this board to mention him. And Kirk from the Bruins board, who follows all things in the New England area, and has his own blog, is the first poster to make a thread about him. So many here have soaked up as much information as we can find. If anything, for some of us, it's a culmination of a long process to see this kid become a Ranger.


Last edited by jas: 02-13-2012 at 09:35 PM.
jas is offline  
Old
02-13-2012, 06:57 PM
  #86
AdamBanks99
MinnesotaMiracleMan
 
AdamBanks99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: New York
Country: United States
Posts: 360
vCash: 500
beanpot update: bc up 1-0 on shorthanded goal assisted by kreider.

AdamBanks99 is offline  
Old
02-13-2012, 07:39 PM
  #87
SlingshotVv
nerdy wrist-locks
 
SlingshotVv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Jersey City, NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 1,467
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ColonialsHockey10 View Post
Just because you read one poster say something absurd like that doesn't mean that's the general consensus. Especially since you essentially grouped all Rangers fans together by saying there's a disconnect, when that's incredibly untrue. There is no disconnect, nearly everyone here has watched Kreider multiple times and has formed a concrete opinion about him. Therefore he is much different from all of our other prospects.
Right, 1 poster. Check the main board NYR trade discussions. Also the idea of a disconnect between fans means I'm not grouping all fans together. You're not the only person in this thread that has watched a ton of Kreider, and one other has said he floats or stands around. I wasn't offering an opinion of my own, I was remarking on that person's opinion.


Quote:
I'm not sure if you're serious here, if you are this is pretty funny. Are you actually going to pull out scouting reports of people watching Bobby Sanguinetti when he was 14 years old? He played for 2 years in the OHL before he was drafted lol. Hell, his peewee banner hung in the arena I played high school hockey in, that doesn't change the fact that nobody from our fanbase watched him nearly as much in the OHL as with Kreider, not even remotely close. By that logic we're all more familiar with JvR as well, who cares if he was playing for the Nation Development Program 2 years before he was drafted, he's local. I played against Jonny Gaudraeu tons of times during high school, since then he's grown 4 inches and is twice the player he once was, I'm not claiming to be an expert on him. Kreider's games, whether on the college or international stage, are frequently televised and it's a fact that more people on this board have seen him play on TV and live then people who hoofed it up to Owen Sound to catch Sanguinetti play.
Why in the hell are you so mad on the internet? A very close family friend is Ralph Scarfone owner of Rocket Construction and former owning partner and was involved in tons of NJ Rockets hockey operations. You're grossly under-estimating how large the Rockets family is in NJ and how closely Rockets fans follow their former players. I didn't say I was one of either group. I've watched Kreider in U20 and WC, that's it. I didn't offer an opinion on Kreider's development one way or another. Only that IF he does have holes in his game, calling him up for a playoff push under a coach that might glue him to the bench if the other poster is correct about his game, would not be in his best interest.

Quote:
And pasting 2 different statements of mine together to make it seem like one is a horrible way of going about your argument. You basically said the only opinions that matter are those of people who see him in person, and proved you have actually never watched him saying things like he needs to be "whipped into shape".
First off my original post had nothing to do with Kreider's actual game, firstly and wasn't accounting for my own feelings on Kreider's play. I said there's a disconnect between fans. You say you saw him play a lot and think the "whipped into shape comment is wrong. ANother poster in this same thread that say's they've followed him closely is the one that made the "whipped into shape" comment. That was their comment, not mine, I only respond with "if he truly needs Torts.. etc" see that? I didn't pretend to know anything about Kreider's development.


And as to my second point: "Reminds me of Sanguinetti, where the equation was: The less you saw Sanguinetti play, and the more your knowledge of his game was from scouting reports and people online, the higher his ceiling and NHL readiness was. I really REALLY hope this isn't the case with Kreider." What this means is, the above situation of a major division between fans that said he was NHL ready and can't-miss as opposed to fans that said he has definite holes to his game and might not be a future number 1 reminds me of Sanguinetti. You do see that some say he's can't miss top liner, and HF's own evaluation of him has him at 8C right? C meaning he could fall as far as being a top talent that doesn't put his game together (dropping two rating points). Sanguinetti was an 8C as well. There's a similarity there whether you want to ROFL it or not.

So to break it down for you: Kreider is rated by professional scouts similar to Sangs was. Fans here that didn't watch much Sangs where talking about him as untouchable. Fans that saw Sangs play were split between he's can't-miss, and he's got definite holes. My entire opinion offered was I really REALLY hope that's not true. I didn't say either group was right. I said "I really REALLY hope this isn't the case with Kreider". You see the difference between that and saying it IS the case?

I don't mind talking hockey, but save the snarkiness and the IM-MAD-BECAUSE-SOMEBODY-IS-WRONG-ON-THE-INTERNET nonsense, unless I'm saying something completely outlandish.

SlingshotVv is offline  
Old
02-13-2012, 07:43 PM
  #88
RGY
(Jagr68NYR94Leetch)
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Long Island, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 8,013
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamBanks99 View Post
beanpot update: bc up 1-0 on shorthanded goal assisted by kreider.
is there a stream available?

RGY is offline  
Old
02-13-2012, 07:45 PM
  #89
AdamBanks99
MinnesotaMiracleMan
 
AdamBanks99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: New York
Country: United States
Posts: 360
vCash: 500
i wish. i'm just streaming the bc radio broadcast.

AdamBanks99 is offline  
Old
02-13-2012, 07:47 PM
  #90
RGY
(Jagr68NYR94Leetch)
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Long Island, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 8,013
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamBanks99 View Post
i wish. i'm just streaming the bc radio broadcast.
I wish cablevision could cut more deals with the schools up in the hockey east or NESN rather so they could air more games from up there. Even if it wasn't BC playing I would watch. After going to school up their and being a part of the atmosphere it is pretty entertaining to watch those teams play. They are always hard fought games with talent on both sides to watch for.

RGY is offline  
Old
02-13-2012, 08:08 PM
  #91
iamthewalrus
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Country: United States
Posts: 580
vCash: 920
Kreider scorrrrrrrres

iamthewalrus is offline  
Old
02-13-2012, 08:08 PM
  #92
AdamBanks99
MinnesotaMiracleMan
 
AdamBanks99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: New York
Country: United States
Posts: 360
vCash: 500
2-1 eagles. kreider has a powerplay goal and a shorthanded assist right now.

AdamBanks99 is offline  
Old
02-13-2012, 08:10 PM
  #93
BackBayNYR
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Boston
Posts: 23
vCash: 500
Kreider looks like a man amongst boys out there with his size and speed. I do agree that he's going to have to change his game up when he joins the pro ranks. He does seem to slack a bit in his own end.

BackBayNYR is offline  
Old
02-13-2012, 08:22 PM
  #94
AdamBanks99
MinnesotaMiracleMan
 
AdamBanks99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: New York
Country: United States
Posts: 360
vCash: 500
Quote:
Watching Rangers fans salivate over Chris Kreider's pending arrival is kind of funny. You're going to love him, NY.
https://twitter.com/#!/chnjoemeloni/...44728708182016

AdamBanks99 is offline  
Old
02-13-2012, 08:31 PM
  #95
ColonialsHockey10
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 9,414
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SlingshotVv View Post
Right, 1 poster. Check the main board NYR trade discussions. Also the idea of a disconnect between fans means I'm not grouping all fans together. You're not the only person in this thread that has watched a ton of Kreider, and one other has said he floats or stands around. I wasn't offering an opinion of my own, I was remarking on that person's opinion.
Well I apologize here, I purposely avoid the Trade board, but I'm sure you're right. And I know disconnect divide the fan base up, but you still divided us into two distinct incorrect groups, which I'll get to.


Quote:
Why in the hell are you so mad on the internet? A very close family friend is Ralph Scarfone owner of Rocket Construction and former owning partner and was involved in tons of NJ Rockets hockey operations. You're grossly under-estimating how large the Rockets family is in NJ and how closely Rockets fans follow their former players. I didn't say I was one of either group. I've watched Kreider in U20 and WC, that's it. I didn't offer an opinion on Kreider's development one way or another. Only that IF he does have holes in his game, calling him up for a playoff push under a coach that might glue him to the bench if the other poster is correct about his game, would not be in his best interest.
Not sure how an lol and a laughing face make me out as mad, considering you are the one use profanity, but alright. And that's great, my organization was the same way, and we competed with the Rockets (username), but that accounts for a minuscule sample size. Your original post is referring to posters on this board, how many of them do you think played for the Rockets, and not only played for them, but were so invested in that organization that they followed Sanguinetti to Canada to watch him play. Now compare that to the number of posters watching Kreider's games on CBS College Sports, or even quadruple that number when he plays internationally, and there's an entire thread or GDT dedicated mainly to him. It's not comparable at all, hence my original post, saying it was wrong. Totally ignoring the local factor, nobody here gets to see Christian Thomas, St. Croix (although we have some good insight from one poster) or McColgan at all, and your original post would have been correct. We look at the stats of these guys, without seeing them, and we go ballistic. Kreider is not at all in that situation. Many have seen him, and most people think he's legit. I see you joined in 2009, were you lurking a few years before hand? We didn't get personal scouting reports on him from Ranger fans, and the only time we ever saw him was during the WJC, which is not usually the best tool for viewing a player (he looked horrible anyway), but it's a small amount of games. The amount of coverage and viewing with Kreider is double that of Sangs. The same applies for Hagelin, we saw a lot of him on television, and people got excited.


Quote:
First off my original post had nothing to do with Kreider's actual game, firstly and wasn't accounting for my own feelings on Kreider's play. I said there's a disconnect between fans. You say you saw him play a lot and think the "whipped into shape comment is wrong. ANother poster in this same thread that say's they've followed him closely is the one that made the "whipped into shape" comment. That was their comment, not mine, I only respond with "if he truly needs Torts.. etc" see that? I didn't pretend to know anything about Kreider's development.


And as to my second point: "Reminds me of Sanguinetti, where the equation was: The less you saw Sanguinetti play, and the more your knowledge of his game was from scouting reports and people online, the higher his ceiling and NHL readiness was. I really REALLY hope this isn't the case with Kreider." What this means is, the above situation of a major division between fans that said he was NHL ready and can't-miss as opposed to fans that said he has definite holes to his game and might not be a future number 1 reminds me of Sanguinetti. You do see that some say he's can't miss top liner, and HF's own evaluation of him has him at 8C right? C meaning he could fall as far as being a top talent that doesn't put his game together (dropping two rating points). Sanguinetti was an 8C as well. There's a similarity there whether you want to ROFL it or not.

So to break it down for you: Kreider is rated by professional scouts similar to Sangs was. Fans here that didn't watch much Sangs where talking about him as untouchable. Fans that saw Sangs play were split between he's can't-miss, and he's got definite holes. My entire opinion offered was I really REALLY hope that's not true. I didn't say either group was right. I said "I really REALLY hope this isn't the case with Kreider". You see the difference between that and saying it IS the case?

I don't mind talking hockey, but save the snarkiness and the IM-MAD-BECAUSE-SOMEBODY-IS-WRONG-ON-THE-INTERNET nonsense, unless I'm saying something completely outlandish.
And once again, I'm saying that there are very few fans here making baseless remarks; most people here have seen Kreider play multiple times, and they like his game. Sanguinetti never got the professional attention Kreider has gotten. What you're post came across as was that the posters that come in here with names like "BCEaglesfan19", since they see Kreider often, are the ones with real scouting reports. Everyone else, particularly Rangers fans on this board, just looks at stats and scouting reports and freak out. This was the case for Sanguinetti, not Kreider, that's why the comparison was bad. I'm sorry if I came across as angry, or got you angry, but I was not going for that.


Last edited by ColonialsHockey10: 02-13-2012 at 08:37 PM.
ColonialsHockey10 is offline  
Old
02-13-2012, 08:43 PM
  #96
SnowblindNYR
Registered User
 
SnowblindNYR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 17,218
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamBanks99 View Post
Who is that?

SnowblindNYR is offline  
Old
02-13-2012, 08:49 PM
  #97
AdamBanks99
MinnesotaMiracleMan
 
AdamBanks99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: New York
Country: United States
Posts: 360
vCash: 500
covers hockey east for http://www.collegehockeynews.com/.

AdamBanks99 is offline  
Old
02-13-2012, 09:05 PM
  #98
SnowblindNYR
Registered User
 
SnowblindNYR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 17,218
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamBanks99 View Post
covers hockey east for http://www.collegehockeynews.com/.
Thanks.

SnowblindNYR is offline  
Old
02-13-2012, 10:18 PM
  #99
Giglio NYR15
Section 417
 
Giglio NYR15's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 1,516
vCash: 500
BC wins the beanpot for the 3rd straight year. Kreider with a goal and assist in the game. Also the 3rd straight year kreider has had a goal. Gotta say the kid has to be fulfilled, 3 straight beanpots, a national championship. He took summer courses, can graduate this year. I think its looking pretty real that Kreider will be taking his talents to nyc in a few months.

Giglio NYR15 is offline  
Old
02-13-2012, 10:39 PM
  #100
wolfgaze
Interesting Cat
 
wolfgaze's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 12,055
vCash: 500
Aha, but what # will he wear?

wolfgaze is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:07 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.