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Senators Prospect Info 2011-2012 Part 4

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Old
02-15-2012, 07:49 AM
  #126
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Originally Posted by Firenze View Post
Hey kid, no one penciled backstrom to score over 100p either. When silfverberg hits 26-27 years old who is to say what he can do?
No they did not, but he certainly was a more sure thing than Silfverberg is hence he was picked at 4. He dripped with talent and every one who watched him knew he'd be a good NHL player.

Nicklas Bäckström: Rookie of the year:
Link

Quote:
- Nicklas is a talent beyond the ordinary that will be really great down the line, says Bengt-Ake Gustafsson, coach.
Quote:
The jurys motivation:
"We have go back to Peter Forsberg at a young age to find a such, complete player. He has served his club team by far the best player and also received huge - and justified - confidence from his coach. His ambition and talent will take him very far in his career, which will be exciting to follow. "
Stupid comparrison. And kid? Really? Thank you.

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Old
02-15-2012, 08:11 AM
  #127
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Originally Posted by Filips Tuba View Post
Around .5 ppg is pretty much par for the course for a first-round pick in their SEL season after the draft. I don't think there's any reason to be worried about production yet. Really the only player to exceed that mark recently is Nicklas Backstrom who put up .89 ppg after the Caps drafted him.

Z-Bad's company:

Kopitar - .43 ppg
Tedenby - .13 ppg
Paajarvi - .59 ppg
Josefson - .46 ppg
Johansson - .48 ppg
Zibanejad (thus far) - .47 ppg
Yeah and Josefson and Johansson were in their 2nd full years in the SEL. The Djurgardens coach also said Zibanejad is clearly a better prospect than Josefson.

Zibanejad's got 7 points in his last 12 games. He came to the team late, he went to WJC, he got a concussion.......he hasn't really had a chance to just play hockey in one place yet.

If Silfverberg becomes the better player it will likely be an example of how hockey sense can override all else....because the advantage in physical talents is undoubtedly slanted towards Zibanejad. And this whole debate begin with someone saying they were doing similar things at the same age, which is misleading.

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02-15-2012, 08:17 AM
  #128
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Originally Posted by DrEasy View Post
Zibby at 18 > Silfverberg at 18

But Sifverberg has since developed at an incredible rate that is hard to replicate. So:

Zibby at 22 vs Silfverberg at 22? Very hard to tell IMO.
that is exactly what i said if you read my whole quote

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02-15-2012, 08:34 AM
  #129
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Originally Posted by Firenze
it is funny that someone quoted me saying that i guaranteed that silfverberg would put up 70-80 points when i in reality just said it wasn't impossible. I dont know how people get "not impossible" to guarantee? Reading comprehension from Markstrom's pads.
You worded it like every one should be happy if he "just" becomes a 70-80 point player. And you insinuated that SEL success somehow equates NHL success. So tell me, do you think Omark can score 70-80pts in the NHL?

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02-15-2012, 09:50 AM
  #130
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Originally Posted by Markstroms pads View Post
You worded it like every one should be happy if he "just" becomes a 70-80 point player. And you insinuated that SEL success somehow equates NHL success. So tell me, do you think Omark can score 70-80pts in the NHL?
i said nowhere in my post that silfverberg would be guaranteed 70-80p. I said there is potential, and who the hell knows right? You thought that Johan Franzen would turn out the way he did?


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02-15-2012, 10:03 AM
  #131
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Yo guys, it's all good, he's a good player and probably going to be a good NHLer for a while. That's great for a 2nd round pick and we're just getting completely spoiled with anything more.

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02-15-2012, 10:12 AM
  #132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Firenze View Post
i said nowhere in my post that silfverberg would be guaranteed 70-80p. I said there is potential, and who the hell knows right? You thought that Johan Franzen would turn out the way he did.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Firenze View Post
I dont think silfverberg will score 100, but he can be a 70-80p in NHL and that is not bad.
"He can be". Do you have one of these?



I actually watched Franzen when he played for Tranås in allvenskan. He put up a pretty good season for a 20ish year old player and then followed Bendelin to LHC. Did not think he'd become anything special though.

Whatever. I don't have any desire to argue with you.

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02-15-2012, 10:32 AM
  #133
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Originally Posted by Markstroms pads View Post
"He can be".


Whatever. I don't have any desire to argue with you.
And yet you started the arguing?

There is a big difference of "can" and "guarantee". Can implies that it is possible, but it by no means guarantees it.

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02-15-2012, 12:07 PM
  #134
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Originally Posted by aragorn View Post
There seems to be a transition happening in the NHL with the infusion of youth. I guess we'll see if he is NHL ready & he could even make the team & still end up in Bingo. It wouldn't surprise me to see Hoffman for example make Ottawa & Silfverberg sent to Bingo for seasoning or to learn the NA game, I doubt it will happen but it`s possible. It wouldn't surprise me if Butler & Condra are still in Ottawa next season & Zibanejad sent down to Bingo. Anything is possible especially if they still have a number of players with one way contracts.

Our centres next season could be Spezza, Turris, Z. Smith & O`Brien. Our forwards could be Greening, Michalek, Alfredsson, Foligno, Butler, Condra, Hoffman & Daugavins, Murray might even add one or two through trade or UFA. Lots of possibilities.
Not that what you're saying is totally out of bounds but I don't think we are in a 5-7 years rebuild like you were saying last summer. Silfverberg will be with the Sens and I'm 99% sure about that. Unlike Rundblad, his game should fit the NA rink much faster. Same thing for Zibanejad, he almost made the team this year and with the acquisition of Turris, we have now the luxury to bring him slowly as a 3rd liner.

Conservatively, that's what I think will happen with the forward group next year :

Greening-Spezza-Michalek
Silfverberg-Turris-Alfredsson
Foligno-Smith-Zibanejad
Condra-Winchester-Neil
Butler

Some people will say : "lol at Siflverberg on the 2nd line". I will simply answer : "lol at Greening, Daugavins, Butler, Condra, etc on the 1st line"

That being said, I personally hope that Daugavins and O'Brien aren't there next season, we (should) have much better options IMO. And I hope we acquire a proven young top-6 forward. Of course, Parise would be ideal.

Parise-Spezza-Michalek
Silfverberg-Turris-Alfredsson
Foligno-Smith-Zibanejad
Greening-Winchester-Neil
Condra/Butler

Finally, I'd like Petersson to make it but where?

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02-15-2012, 12:59 PM
  #135
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Originally Posted by Xspyrit View Post
Not that what you're saying is totally out of bounds but I don't think we are in a 5-7 years rebuild like you were saying last summer. Silfverberg will be with the Sens and I'm 99% sure about that. Unlike Rundblad, his game should fit the NA rink much faster. Same thing for Zibanejad, he almost made the team this year and with the acquisition of Turris, we have now the luxury to bring him slowly as a 3rd liner.

Conservatively, that's what I think will happen with the forward group next year :

Greening-Spezza-Michalek
Silfverberg-Turris-Alfredsson
Foligno-Smith-Zibanejad
Condra-Winchester-Neil
Butler

Some people will say : "lol at Siflverberg on the 2nd line". I will simply answer : "lol at Greening, Daugavins, Butler, Condra, etc on the 1st line"

That being said, I personally hope that Daugavins and O'Brien aren't there next season, we (should) have much better options IMO. And I hope we acquire a proven young top-6 forward. Of course, Parise would be ideal.

Parise-Spezza-Michalek
Silfverberg-Turris-Alfredsson
Foligno-Smith-Zibanejad
Greening-Winchester-Neil
Condra/Butler

Finally, I'd like Petersson to make it but where?
No one thought the Sens would play as well as they have this season & most picked them to be dead last in the conference. Teams fall out of contention quickly as we have seen in Tampa. We don't know if this success will continue into next season because we have seen some of these players play poorly before. Gonchar, Kuba & Phillips are aging defencemen & it will take some time before whoever is replacing them will play to their level. Alfredsson is aging, Michalek has had injury problems, Spezza has a bad back, there are some areas of concern for this team moving forward.

But at the same time there is also lots of optimism with the youth that's here & the youth that's coming, we just don't know how long it will take for them to make a difference or impact. Most expect that Silfverberg & Zibanejad will be great next season in their rookie yr. They might be great or good enough but they might not either regardless what anyone says or stats to support their arguement. Losing Konopka, Daugavins & Carkner could really hurt this team in terms of toughness which may or may not show up on the scoreboard, we'll see. I agree with you on Petersson I don't see room for him either & I guess Filatov has fallen off the map.

While the forwards look good I think it will be on defence where they have the most challenges as we have already seen, to replace the experience of the aging three. The deadline, the draft & the free agency market will all be interesting times to see if Murray adds anything of significance to this team. Personally, I think Parise stays in the US somewhere. Murray is going to have some tough decisions to make on who to keep & who to let go or trade. He has the extra assets to trade a few players but it's tough to predict what he will be able to get for what he wants to trade. A good example is Butler that if you trade him he could become an excellent scorer for someone else because there may not be room on the roster for him next season. What to do?


Last edited by aragorn: 02-15-2012 at 01:05 PM.
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Old
02-15-2012, 03:47 PM
  #136
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Me-ow!

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02-15-2012, 04:05 PM
  #137
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Could you guys **** about Silfver and Zibby and get back to talking about this man.


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02-15-2012, 04:39 PM
  #138
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Originally Posted by aragorn View Post
I guess Filatov has fallen off the map.
I must disagree on Filatov. And btw, he was just assigned back to the juniors in Russia.

In my opinion, he has just tried to achieve too much too fast. He tried to come to NHL straight from Europe when he was 18, and that's well, insane. Very, very few can do it and succeed (Kovalchuk and Jagr are the only ones I can quickly come up with). Most of the best Europeans have come to North America at the age of 20 to 22. At that time, they've learned the European brand of hockey, have had a good season or two in the leading European professional leagues (Kovalchuk is the only exception to this rule that I found with a quick search, though he did almost dominate in Russia's second highest league at age 17).

Filatov tried to come straight to NHL from Russia's third highest league, with only 5 real adult games played in the Russian nr. one league. No one, really no one, has ever succeeded in that and will probably never succeed.

Also, most average or even above average players need time to learn the North American way of playing hockey. And if you don't even know how to succeed in the European hockeyrinks, it's really hard to learn the ways of the NHL. When a player has played a season or two on a high level in Europe, then it's much easier to adjust to the North American way of playing.

I believe that Nikita Filatov can still be first line player in any league. The problem is just that he hasn't had the patience to learn to play anywhere. He's got the skills and abilities needed to succeed, but if he tries yearly to come to NHL, spends half of the season running up and down, then goes back home to Russia and does the same in there for the last part of the season...he'll never achieve his potential. If he, on the other hand, spends a year or two in the KHL now, gets a almost point-per-game season or two there, and then returns to North America, he'll be the player he was supposed to be. Of course, he might not wanna come back at that point, cause the owner of CSKA might just offer him, say $10million a year to play there for the rest of his career

But well, his story isin't over yet, he's way too young for that. For example Olli Jokinen tried to the NHL at age 19. Failed miserably and returned to Finland...

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02-15-2012, 04:43 PM
  #139
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I was watching the archived 6-5 loss against Toronto from earlier this season yesterday. Filatov actually looked pretty good. Made me miss him.

Also, Da Costa is a monster. I forgot how much I loved him while he was in Ottawa. I can't believe some people have already given up on him. The kid is just great.

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02-15-2012, 04:46 PM
  #140
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I was watching the archived 6-5 loss against Toronto from earlier this season yesterday. Filatov actually looked pretty good. Made me miss him.

Also, Da Costa is a monster. I forgot how much I loved him while he was in Ottawa. I can't believe some people have already given up on him. The kid is just great.
Once any player gets demoted to the AHL, the fanbase thinks that the franchise has given up on him and is going to be a career AHLer.

I agree, DaCosta has too much talent to be in the AHL and unlike Locke, he can actually skate, a big ****ing difference between the two so if I hear another Locke comparison I am going to freak out.

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02-15-2012, 05:19 PM
  #141
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Originally Posted by Afro Thunder View Post
Once any player gets demoted to the AHL, the fanbase thinks that the franchise has given up on him and is going to be a career AHLer.

I agree, DaCosta has too much talent to be in the AHL and unlike Locke, he can actually skate, a big ****ing difference between the two so if I hear another Locke comparison I am going to freak out.
The fact is that Ottawa has Spezza & Turris as the 1st & 2nd line centres, I doubt that will change for next season or for a few yrs to come. Z. Smith, Winchester if he is re-signed, O'Brien & maybe Zibanejad could be fighting it out for the other two centre spots along with Da Costa. Do you think that Da Costa can beat any of those guys out for a centre job? If yes, who & on what line?

With the number of forwards on one way contracts for next season, with Silfverberg & Zibanejad & maybe Stone challenging for spots next yr & if Murray adds a top 6 forward plus whoever graduates from Bingo, I just don't see any room for Petersson either, do you? If yes, who do you see Petersson replacing in the lineup & on which line?

It's easy to say the fanbase has given up on certain players but we haven't, some of us just don't see them making the team because there are better players in our opinion ahead of them, that's all. Of course, there can always be changes & trades to make room but any trade for a top 6 forward is still going to place those two further down the depth chart. I think the same applies to Filatov although he could always come back later when he is older & more mature & hopefully a better player, but IMO he is near the end of his chances in the NHL.

Michalek - Spezza - Butler
- Murray could acquire a top 6 forward to replace Butler, if so, Butler moves down unless he is traded

Greening - Turris - Alfredsson
- Silfverberg could replace Greening on this line next yr, if so Greening moves down unless he is traded

Foligno - Smith - Condra
- these 3 will be hard to beat out for a roster spot next yr, I think they all play next yr

Daugavins - Winchester - Neil
- Daug & Winny could be re-signed for next yr, O'Brien has a shot of replacing Konopka for next yr & Zibanejad could make the team & Hoffman could take a roster spot as well. Not a lot of room for Da Costa or Petersson IMO.

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02-15-2012, 05:37 PM
  #142
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On a contending team Smith is a 4th line center.

What's wrong with having

Spezza
Turris
DaCosta
Smith

As your center depth and develop 3 scoring lines and one checking line like every other contender. Vancouver has their high skill prospect Hodgson as their 3rd center and not Malhotra, Boston has Seguin, Bergeron and Kreji as their center depth in the cup run, Pittsburgh had Crosby/Malkin/Stall.

The Murrays know what they have in DaCosta and will probably play for this team next year down the road, his vision and his skill is off the charts to have him buried in the AHL just because Obrien can play the 4th line.

Zibby will begin and end his career as a winger, bet on that and DaCosta is more suited to play center for this team down the road then Obrien, Winchester, Konopka etc.

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02-15-2012, 06:37 PM
  #143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Afro Thunder View Post
On a contending team Smith is a 4th line center.

What's wrong with having

Spezza
Turris
DaCosta
Smith

As your center depth and develop 3 scoring lines and one checking line like every other contender. Vancouver has their high skill prospect Hodgson as their 3rd center and not Malhotra, Boston has Seguin, Bergeron and Kreji as their center depth in the cup run, Pittsburgh had Crosby/Malkin/Stall.

The Murrays know what they have in DaCosta and will probably play for this team next year down the road, his vision and his skill is off the charts to have him buried in the AHL just because Obrien can play the 4th line.

Zibby will begin and end his career as a winger, bet on that and DaCosta is more suited to play center for this team down the road then Obrien, Winchester, Konopka etc.
Possible, I guess we'll see. We forgot about Regin, he could be the 3rd line centre as well. I also think that Z. Smith could fill a need a LW too making room for O'Brien

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02-15-2012, 08:33 PM
  #144
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Prince 1a

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02-16-2012, 01:15 AM
  #145
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2 assists and +3 for Stone, 94 points on the year now.

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02-16-2012, 06:54 AM
  #146
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2 assists and +3 for Stone, 94 points on the year now.
Junior is too easy for him. I hope he doesn't get complacent or anything in the off-season. I wish you could get special status to play pro sooner because being in Brandon is doing nothing for Stone anymore.

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02-16-2012, 08:47 AM
  #147
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whats with the stupid rule that north americans cant play in AHL until 20 while euros can play at 18?

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02-16-2012, 08:53 AM
  #148
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whats with the stupid rule that north americans cant play in AHL until 20 while euros can play at 18?
Agreement with the CHL, pretty much makes sure the NHL teams cannot tear apart the CHL

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02-16-2012, 08:53 AM
  #149
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whats with the stupid rule that north americans cant play in AHL until 20 while euros can play at 18?
To protect the Junior CHL league from losing its best players.

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02-16-2012, 09:31 AM
  #150
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ah I see. Thanks.

Silfv and zbad are playing in SEL tonight. Should be interesting.

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