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Would you give Randy Cunneyworth a chance next year?

View Poll Results: Would you give Randy Cunneyworth a chance next year?
Yes i like the way the habs are heading 82 52.23%
No i want to try a new coach 75 47.77%
Voters: 157. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
02-22-2012, 01:03 AM
  #101
ECWHSWI
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Originally Posted by haburger View Post
lol.coach gets thrown into a blender halfway thru the season.only a clown would judge a coach after this circus of a season.give the guy at least a training camp before u pass judgement.
you dont need to wait that long before you can "pass judgement", while it's a tough situation to be in for him, after 20-30 games you can see things (good or bad) that will tell you if he's a good coach in the making or not...

example : in OT vs Buffalo - two shifts for Darche, one for White... while we have Cole, Pacc, Plekanec, DD, Bourque, AK, Eller who are ALL more skilled than those two...

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02-22-2012, 01:11 AM
  #102
Ohashi_Jouzu
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I'd really like a "maybe" option, because I haven't made my mind up yet. Polls like this that are completely polarizing might not really gauge the board's opinion on the matter, as much as it simply counts the haters/lovers with strong opinions.

I wouldn't be surprised if over 50% of the vote ended up in the "maybe" section, and THAT would tell you something.

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02-22-2012, 01:26 AM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Blame it on PK View Post
PP a wreak.
Too "content" with our current lines. He needs to do some juggling to get a second scoring line and get Darche out of the top 6.
Over-reliance on Cole-DD-Patches.
Flaky bench management.
Dude just doesn't have it.
Favoritism towards Crampoli.
The over reliance on the Patches-DD-Cole line gets ignored because they score alot, thought as our 5on5 game is getting worse and we regresses to the mean they'll probably slow down, but they are such a bad team line. Wich makes sense, our metrics have been terrible under Cunneyworth, so we are a bad team under him. Like I previously said, those 3 players can all play an important role on a good team, but a good them wouldn't use them like that.

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02-22-2012, 01:30 AM
  #104
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I wonder how the poll would look like if it was started tonight. LOL

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02-22-2012, 01:32 AM
  #105
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Originally Posted by MathMan View Post
No.

The guy was put in a bad situation, but he's been actively making it worse. His system is so simplistic I hesitate to call it "a system", he's pretty much halved the scoring chances the PP is getting, his personnel management is whacked. He had a key veteran alienated mere days after his nomination, precipitating a trade.

He didn't screw up the PK, so that's a good point.

Other than that, though, is there really anything you can point at that makes you think, "yeah, I see how that could work longer-term"? 'Cause I'm not seeing it.

Martin had serious trouble with puck possession when he started out with the Habs, but you could see already that his line-matching and bench management was top-notch. That's not exactly the case here.
First of all, the bold point. I've been reading all over the place that PG said that the Cammalleri deal was a long time in the making. Don't know how long Martin's "firing" had been planned, but one thing seems certain: Randy's dealings with Cammy upon becoming coach had nothing to do with him getting dealt. Unless, of course, they're all wrong, which is possible.

Secondly, I have to ask: what were you expecting to see in terms of "positive signs for the future" from a team that effectively downgraded two positions during the transition period? Cammy, starting the year on the 1st line, turns into "everybody now finally realizes he shouldn't be in the top 6" Rene Bourque. And top 4 Spacek turns into "gotta be used only 16 mins/game, bottom pairing + PP" Tomas Kaberle. And this is a team, mind you, that have replaced Pyatt and Halpern with Nokelainen and Blunden/Palushaj/White, so that should have lowered expectations for this year's pre-Cunneyworth Habs to begin with, let alone post-Cunneyworth, with less talent in the top 6 to make up for the lack of impact in the bottom 6 ("demoted"/developing players' (Eller, A.Kost) production aside).

As far as I see it, just maintaining more or less the same level (of inconsistency even, lol), especially considering the periods of confusion, change, and lack of continuity, should be considered a great success for a rookie coach in the toughest hockey city out there. Not that I'm super keen to keep him - definitely not if someone better becomes available/interested - but I'm not in a real hurry to find excuses for why he shouldn't come back. He actually hasn't fully flopped on his face (far from it) or wilted under the spotlight (yet, perhaps) like others may have, and that's at least something, haha.

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02-22-2012, 01:40 AM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
First of all, the bold point. I've been reading all over the place that PG said that the Cammalleri deal was a long time in the making. Don't know how long Martin's "firing" had been planned, but one thing seems certain: Randy's dealings with Cammy upon becoming coach had nothing to do with him getting dealt. Unless, of course, they're all wrong, which is possible.

Secondly, I have to ask: what were you expecting to see in terms of "positive signs for the future" from a team that effectively downgraded two positions during the transition period? Cammy, starting the year on the 1st line, turns into "everybody now finally realizes he shouldn't be in the top 6" Rene Bourque. And top 4 Spacek turns into "gotta be used only 16 mins/game, bottom pairing + PP" Tomas Kaberle. And this is a team, mind you, that have replaced Pyatt and Halpern with Nokelainen and Blunden/Palushaj/White, so that should have lowered expectations for this year's pre-Cunneyworth Habs to begin with, let alone post-Cunneyworth, with less talent in the top 6 to make up for the lack of impact in the bottom 6 ("demoted"/developing players' (Eller, A.Kost) production aside).

As far as I see it, just maintaining more or less the same level (of inconsistency even, lol), especially considering the periods of confusion, change, and lack of continuity, should be considered a great success for a rookie coach in the toughest hockey city out there. Not that I'm super keen to keep him - definitely not if someone better becomes available/interested - but I'm not in a real hurry to find excuses for why he shouldn't come back. He actually hasn't fully flopped on his face (far from it) or wilted under the spotlight (yet, perhaps) like others may have, and that's at least something, haha.
opposite for me, no hurry to find the excuses to have him back...
- Bourque, known for being bad defensively, put on a shutdown line
- guys like Darche/White in 4 on 4
- using 7 D ALL the time
- incapable of putting up a decent offensive line (outside the DD line who was JM "creation"), not even a decent offensive duo (ever heard of AK/Eller Connie ?)
etc

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02-22-2012, 02:12 AM
  #107
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
opposite for me, no hurry to find the excuses to have him back...
- Bourque, known for being bad defensively, put on a shutdown line
Why is he on a "shutdown" line? Because he plays with Plekanec? Plekanec has always been our best 2-way player, and everyone who plays on his line is expected to play 2-way hockey. By this logic, JM was crazy all along to be using Cammalleri in a "shutdown" role for the first 20-30 games of the season. But the real issue is that injuries to guys like Gionta and Blunden, the void left by Cammy, and the fact that DD HAS to play with Max & Cole, mean the remaining players are a mix-mash that normally might not even play together.

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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
- guys like Darche/White in 4 on 4
- using 7 D ALL the time
- incapable of putting up a decent offensive line (outside the DD line who was JM "creation"), not even a decent offensive duo (ever heard of AK/Eller Connie ?)
etc
This bold part surprised me a bit. Wasn't Cunneyworth the one who created Moen-Eller-A.Kost? I'm pretty sure, but I could be mistaken. JM was let got after 32 games, and that line actually got the lion's share of the icetime in games 41, 43, and 44 ahead of DD's line (when Cammy-Pleks-Gionta sucked, and Darche-Nokes-Blunden were... meh). Or were you just being facetious, wondering why he has forgotten about that line?

As for the 7D thing, that just takes some lateral thinking. Obviously they want Diaz playing. Any team who has an 18 min/night, 2nd highest scoring rookie defenseman in the league tries to find ways to keep him in the line up, duh. They probably also like the play of Emelin. I'm with them. So they were "stuck" with Gill as the "7th D". I say stuck, but the decision they're faced with is play Gill every day and waste a year of development with Emelin, or split the time and hope it works out for both of them. After all, valuable old guy at end of career, promising new guy beginning his; that's how it should work when dealing with the 6th defenseman spot, isn't it?

Now Gill has been dealt for an awesome return, but both Campoli AND Weber are in the lineup, so what's going on? I'm thinking trade showcase, and I wouldn't be surprised if Weber + Campoli turns into a solid veteran defenseman in his late 20s/early 30s, and likely known more for his defense. Just guessing, but sometimes you never know what a GM asks a coach to do "in the best interests of the organization", and we know that "showcasing" does occur.

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Old
02-22-2012, 02:16 AM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
Why is he on a "shutdown" line? Because he plays with Plekanec? Plekanec has always been our best 2-way player, and everyone who plays on his line is expected to play 2-way hockey. By this logic, JM was crazy all along to be using Cammalleri in a "shutdown" role for the first 20-30 games of the season. But the real issue is that injuries to guys like Gionta and Blunden, the void left by Cammy, and the fact that DD HAS to play with Max & Cole, mean the remaining players are a mix-mash that normally might not even play together.



This bold part surprised me a bit. Wasn't Cunneyworth the one who created Moen-Eller-A.Kost? I'm pretty sure, but I could be mistaken. JM was let got after 32 games, and that line actually got the lion's share of the icetime in games 41, 43, and 44 ahead of DD's line (when Cammy-Pleks-Gionta sucked, and Darche-Nokes-Blunden were... meh). Or were you just being facetious, wondering why he has forgotten about that line?

As for the 7D thing, that just takes some lateral thinking. Obviously they want Diaz playing. Any team who has an 18 min/night, 2nd highest scoring rookie defenseman in the league tries to find ways to keep him in the line up, duh. They probably also like the play of Emelin. I'm with them. So they were "stuck" with Gill as the "7th D". I say stuck, but the decision they're faced with is play Gill every day and waste a year of development with Emelin, or split the time and hope it works out for both of them. After all, valuable old guy at end of career, promising new guy beginning his; that's how it should work when dealing with the 6th defenseman spot, isn't it?

Now Gill has been dealt for an awesome return, but both Campoli AND Weber are in the lineup, so what's going on? I'm thinking trade showcase, and I wouldn't be surprised if Weber + Campoli turns into a solid veteran defenseman in his late 20s/early 30s, and likely known more for his defense. Just guessing, but sometimes you never know what a GM asks a coach to do "in the best interests of the organization", and we know that "showcasing" does occur.
last season in the second half by JM.

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02-22-2012, 02:28 AM
  #109
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
last season in the second half by JM.
Yeah, funny observation buy the poster quoted.

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02-22-2012, 02:51 AM
  #110
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I wasn't aware of what Eller had said, but according to the AC cast, he answered questions saying how he understands that he's younger, and veterans will get more ice time, but he disagrees with it and thinks everybody should merit their time (or something like that...).

Basically, the kid doesn't like the way he's used. We can say the same for AK as well. I'm sure Plekanec is also disappointed considering he made it clear he'd like to play with AK but yet he's been giving Darche or Gomez instead..

It really isn't all that surprising, many fans don't understand how AK can play less than Palushaj in a game, or be limited 12-13 minutes while Darche gets 20. Or how Eller gets glued to the bench for no apparent reason and only plays 5 min but then is used as the last player in the shootouts (that's without playing in the OT as well!). Or how Gomez, the guy that hadn't score in more than 1 full calendar year, the guy that has 2 goals this year, gets to play on the PP while the guys that have 12 or 16 get to watch from the bench. White close to 18min tonight? Gomez 17min as the 2nd line center?..

I mean..For the Love of God, what the heck is going on??

This has been going on since RC took over. Not only that, but his line matching is just bad. The refusal to break our top line, and the fact we give grinders a lot more ice time than to our skilled players. Seriously, what the heck is going on??

I don't care how boring Martin's system was, anybody that says RC is better lives in a seriously facked up world.

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02-22-2012, 02:55 AM
  #111
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
last season in the second half by JM.
Oh yeah. I have no trouble remembering Pouliot-Eller-Darche, and Eller playing with Gomez, but somehow forget that A.Kost moved to Eller's line long enough to play with those two. Whatever, it's almost 4 am here, I'm herbally enhanced, and the point still stands that Cunneyworth has not only heard of using those two guys together, he gave them lots of icetime together around the time of Eller's 4 goal outburst (2 assists by A.Kost, if I at least remember that part correctly).

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02-22-2012, 02:57 AM
  #112
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
I wasn't aware of what Eller had said, but according to the AC cast, he answered questions saying how he understands that he's younger, and veterans will get more ice time, but he disagrees with it and thinks everybody should merit their time (or something like that...).

Basically, the kid doesn't like the way he's used. We can say the same for AK as well. I'm sure Plekanec is also disappointed considering he made it clear he'd like to play with AK but yet he's been giving Darche or Gomez instead..

It really isn't all that surprising, many fans don't understand how AK can play less than Palushaj in a game, or be limited 12-13 minutes while Darche gets 20. Or how Eller gets glued to the bench for no apparent reason and only plays 5 min but then is used as the last player in the shootouts (that's without playing in the OT as well!). Or how Gomez, the guy that hadn't score in more than 1 full calendar year, the guy that has 2 goals this year, gets to play on the PP while the guys that have 12 or 16 get to watch from the bench. White close to 18min tonight? Gomez 17min as the 2nd line center?..

I mean..For the Love of God, what the heck is going on??

This has been going on since RC took over. Not only that, but his line matching is just bad. The refusal to break our top line, and the fact we give grinders a lot more ice time than to our skilled players. Seriously, what the heck is going on??

I don't care how boring Martin's system was, anybody that says RC is better lives in a seriously facked up world.
While I understand the coach might not want to break up the only thing that seems to work, at some point he'll have to...

cause no matter how good they are together, it's the only line that does well anyway... since we're losing more games than we play lately! something has to be tried...

and since we're not going to make the PO might as well try stuff... like maybe Plekanec could develop chemistry (given more than a few minutes tryout) with either Cole or Pacc

DD / Pacc (Cole)
Plek / Cole (Pacc)

it's not like it would cost us games trying this out...

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02-22-2012, 03:14 AM
  #113
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
While I understand the coach might not want to break up the only thing that seems to work, at some point he'll have to...

cause no matter how good they are together, it's the only line that does well anyway... since we're losing more games than we play lately! something has to be tried...

and since we're not going to make the PO might as well try stuff... like maybe Plekanec could develop chemistry (given more than a few minutes tryout) with either Cole or Pacc

DD / Pacc (Cole)
Plek / Cole (Pacc)

it's not like it would cost us games trying this out...
I think we have to split Cole and MaxPac. I think MaxPac and DD have this chemistry from the Bulldogs, so keep them together. Try Bourque there. Give Plek AK Cole a shot. I mean, it doesn't matter now, I think it's a little too late anyways, but it should have been done a while ago.
There really isn't much to excuse the fact this wasn't tried. We also have a multitude of players that could be tried on the PP, but despite it, we stick with the same lines even though we've been struggling all year.

If that DD line actually made us win, then okay, I get it. But it isn't, and we should have made some changes right away. Not wait until it's too late.
I think this is the first coach that sticks with one line despite the losses. I don't know of any other coaches that will keep one line intact at the cost of the team.

It's really pathetic.

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02-22-2012, 03:35 AM
  #114
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
I think we have to split Cole and MaxPac. I think MaxPac and DD have this chemistry from the Bulldogs, so keep them together. Try Bourque there. Give Plek AK Cole a shot. I mean, it doesn't matter now, I think it's a little too late anyways, but it should have been done a while ago.
There really isn't much to excuse the fact this wasn't tried. We also have a multitude of players that could be tried on the PP, but despite it, we stick with the same lines even though we've been struggling all year.

If that DD line actually made us win, then okay, I get it. But it isn't, and we should have made some changes right away. Not wait until it's too late.
I think this is the first coach that sticks with one line despite the losses. I don't know of any other coaches that will keep one line intact at the cost of the team.

It's really pathetic.
None would, not the ones who wants to keep their job anyway. And besides, I'd get if he wanted to keep the line intact while trying to fix the others, but he isnt even doing that... he put AK with Gomez on the 4th cause he think they dont deserve more, put Bourque on a shutdown line, and then put whoever's left with Eller...

it's like there's no thoughts in these make-ups...

at some point you hope he'll realize that deserving or not, guys like Bourque and AK can (did before) score 20+ a season, while guys like Darche or White (Blunden before him) will never do that...

it's nice to rewards those working hard, and in an ideal world coach would always do that... but sometimes, and this is the case here, he's hoping guys like Darche or White will give him more that what their talent allow them to... same for Palushaj who has yet to score a goal in the NHL...

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02-22-2012, 03:56 AM
  #115
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Only if there are amzing talents in the draft.

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02-22-2012, 03:57 AM
  #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
I think we have to split Cole and MaxPac. I think MaxPac and DD have this chemistry from the Bulldogs, so keep them together. Try Bourque there. Give Plek AK Cole a shot. I mean, it doesn't matter now, I think it's a little too late anyways, but it should have been done a while ago.
There really isn't much to excuse the fact this wasn't tried. We also have a multitude of players that could be tried on the PP, but despite it, we stick with the same lines even though we've been struggling all year.

If that DD line actually made us win, then okay, I get it. But it isn't, and we should have made some changes right away. Not wait until it's too late.
I think this is the first coach that sticks with one line despite the losses. I don't know of any other coaches that will keep one line intact at the cost of the team.

It's really pathetic.
Yeah, it's hard to argue with any of that.

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02-22-2012, 06:45 AM
  #117
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My problem with JM and RC is they both don't think outside of the box. we have maybe what 3, 4 lazy guys in the squad ? put one on each line..
Put Kostitsyn instead of Cole, with two workers, that'll wake him up
Put Bourque with Cole and Plekanec that'll wake him up
Put Darche on Eller's wing along with Leblanc
Send down Palushaj and bring up Geoffrion, might bring some enegergy and some offensive spark, stick him with Gomez and White

Cole-Plekanec-Bourque
Kostitsyn-Desharnais-Pacioretty
Darche-Eller-Leblanc
Geoffrion-Gomez-White

As for the D, trade Campoli, call up Henry, tough mofo, for the rest of the season
Gorges-Subban
Emelin-Kaberle
Diaz-Henry

D still weak, but meaner.

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02-22-2012, 06:52 AM
  #118
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What's his record since he got here?

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02-22-2012, 06:55 AM
  #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
I think we have to split Cole and MaxPac. I think MaxPac and DD have this chemistry from the Bulldogs, so keep them together. Try Bourque there. Give Plek AK Cole a shot. I mean, it doesn't matter now, I think it's a little too late anyways, but it should have been done a while ago.
There really isn't much to excuse the fact this wasn't tried. We also have a multitude of players that could be tried on the PP, but despite it, we stick with the same lines even though we've been struggling all year.

If that DD line actually made us win, then okay, I get it. But it isn't, and we should have made some changes right away. Not wait until it's too late.
I think this is the first coach that sticks with one line despite the losses. I don't know of any other coaches that will keep one line intact at the cost of the team.

It's really pathetic.
Being completely dependant on a soft minutes line is such a bad team thing. I mean, I get why they were originally put together but logic says they should have been broken the second we got a couple of guys back. It's like Cunneyworth came in, saw their shiny stats sheet and never actually bothered understanding why they look so good, but at the same time he had them sheltered by moen-eller-ak for a while and by Plek now so I don't know... Their the only line that has had the chance to devellop any sort of chemistry and they seem to be the only not completely scared of doing mistakes since they get thrown out there no matter how they're playing. Even if they get completely owned at even strenght, they'll get the ice time and PP time, wich is fine, except no one else gets that.

Cunneyworth should know that having a strong tough minutes unit is much more a sign of a good team than having three players with shiny stats sheet, especially when only those three gets put in a situation to look good.

I already said it, all three of those players can play an important role on a good team but a good team (and coach except for the extreme reasons they got put together) would never ever use them like that. Plekanec gets a lot ***** said about him but we were never a bad team when he got put in a situation to succeed.

Season is done, time to plan for next year. If Gomez ain't coming back, time to stop putting Eller, who will and needs the icetime, on the bench to play him 20 minutes. If you believe DD is better than Plekanec, time to use him in tough minutes and see how he does without the two best wingers on the team. Because that's actually a pretty important thing to know if you want to know what you'll do next season...

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02-22-2012, 07:34 AM
  #120
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I really don't want him to be back.

IMO, he's been terrible. We are 15th in the east and still he's using the same strategy or same line game after game. I'm tired of seing us running everywhere to get the puck only to dump it in the offensive zone the second we have it.

My problem with him:

- Gomez is over. Stop giving him so much ice time. Stop putting player that could score a much needed goal (AK) with him to destroy their confidence.
- You traded for René Bourque because is a big, strong, offensive player. Give him a chance to succeed. give him quality linemate and quality icetime.
- Darche is a great hard working guy. But he doesn't belong on a top 6 role when you have other player that can do a better job. You need to score GOAL on your top 6 line, not grind.
- Why 7 D-men ? It's a joke, use either Weber or Campoli but stop using both of them and giving them icetime after they've been on the bench for several times. Play Kaberle on a regular shift. You're not paying 4,5 millions for a 7th d-men. Our D is just one big mess and using 7 of them just add to the confusion.

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02-22-2012, 07:43 AM
  #121
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his heart seems in the right place, I like the energy he can bring to the team(well at times anyways)
the rewarding of hard working players, the ethic
all that but overall he just doesnt seem that bright

sticks to his guns to the point of going against logic

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Old
02-22-2012, 07:51 AM
  #122
hockeyfan2k11
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I think there will be better options elsewhere. Hard to really fault him though...he was put in a very difficult position.

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02-22-2012, 07:59 AM
  #123
ReVeuF
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I want new GM, new coach next year

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02-22-2012, 08:20 AM
  #124
charlie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReVeuF View Post
I want new GM, new coach next year
I havent decided on the GM part but yes we need an NHL coach.
Man, Hitchcock would of looked good here.

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02-22-2012, 08:23 AM
  #125
Habs 4 Life
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReVeuF View Post
I want new GM, new coach next year
absolutely new GM, new coach and guys with a ****ing sense of direction. We don't have that right now

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