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Acq/ Rost. Bldg./ Cap Part VII

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Old
02-16-2012, 10:14 PM
  #751
artilector
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Originally Posted by NobodyBeatsTheWiz View Post
If those are the actual figures, and there's not a 'M' after the number, I'd be all for it.

I don't get the Grabovski thing, especially at that price.
Well, he's not ideal, but: definite upgrade over current patchwork centers, last chance to see if Semin can be more effective with a "real" center.. and, if it doesn't work, he should at least put up points, which means he should have decent trade value. So not a huge risk, I think.


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02-16-2012, 10:15 PM
  #752
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Originally Posted by BrooklynCapsFan View Post
And that's where McPhee and Mahoney really excel. Dagger.
Mahoney doesn't work the pro side of things.

That player may have been Turris. Maybe it's Brassard, albeit probably not immediately.

Vermette could return to 50-60 point form I suppose but it's definitely a gamble. The bloated contracts on this team add up very poorly. That area alone should draw a lot of scrutiny toward McPhee if this team doesn't make the playoffs.

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02-16-2012, 10:17 PM
  #753
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If the cost is hypothetically Eakin + 2nd for Grabo, I think I'd take my chances in the off-season. I would do 2nd + Eakin and more(if needed) for Roy/Ribeiro.

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02-17-2012, 02:03 AM
  #754
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I'd rather have Grabovski over Roy at this point.

Eakin, Galiev, 1st for Grabovski and Kulemin. If Backstrom and Green come back

Ovechkin Backstrom Brouwer
Kulemin Grabovski Semin
Chimera Laich Johansson (dose of speed and playmaking)
Hendricks Halpern Ward

Alzner Carlson
Hamrlik Green
Orlov Wideman



Don't think our problem is soft players as much as lack of fearless players. Grabovski plays with reckless abandon even if he won't light anyone up. Keep other team on their heels. We could use that.

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Old
02-17-2012, 02:44 AM
  #755
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Originally Posted by artilector View Post
Yeah but Ott is significantly cheaper and quite possibly more effective overall as 3C. Laich is a nice player to have, but his contract sucks.
Yeah I just don't believe his contract is a problem at at all for a guy who can get you 50+ points a year and can play multiple roles.

Not sure what fans want these day beyond that plus a good voice in the room and good example for the young guys on how to be a pro.

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02-17-2012, 02:52 AM
  #756
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Originally Posted by Raikkonen View Post
it is not

almost every formation we try to imagine for next season hasnt Laich in top-6

then he is overpayed 3rd line center

if GMGM will find his 2nd line center who will receive enough TOI then Laich's usefulness will be limited

and I can easily see that Kuznetsov and new 2C could have some impact on Laich's PP TOI also

then there will be a problem with Boyd Gordon type of player with 4,5M of salary
Dude, when did Laich perform best? When he was a top 6 Wing. 25g, 59 pts. It's not like he's dragging down the team. NOBODY is scoring right now and he can play multiple positions.

I tell you what, when Kuznetzov signs a contract and gets over here to play and shows he can put up 25g and 50+ pts, and when GMGM finally gets that new 2C (har har), we can worry about Laich's contract. Boyd Gordon dude? For reals?

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02-17-2012, 03:49 AM
  #757
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Originally Posted by CapitalsCup2012 View Post
Yeah I just don't believe his contract is a problem at at all for a guy who can get you 50+ points a year and can play multiple roles.

Not sure what fans want these day beyond that plus a good voice in the room and good example for the young guys on how to be a pro.
"Fans these days" want a rational discussion about what players are worth, I think..

My opinion on Laich is (and I'm not alone) that you can find a much cheaper player to give a similar "grit infusion" to the top 6. Perfect example this year -- Brouwer. So let's find another Brouwer and save 2m on Laich's salary. Even if the guy is slightly less productive, when it comes down to say:

1) Semin-3m center-Laich, OR:
2) Semin-5m center-Brouwer

Give me option 2 every time.

It has nothing to do with not appreciating Laich as a nice versatile player. But show me another contract where you can credibly find a replacement that will save 2m with minor (if any) dropoff.

There are other players that have either bloated contracts (Ward, Schultz), or who have legitimate questions as to their worth in playoffs (Semin, Green). But these other players are either not that expensive in absolute terms or are able to put up big point totals in the regular season -- so that at least gives you reasonable confidence that you can trade them away if needed. But with Laich, it seems to me that there's an additional danger that if he gets pushed out of the top 6 (which is quite possible) and his point totals plummet for a couple years running.. plus with CBA uncertainty.. this is a potential albatross contract. I'd like the Caps to steer clear of those kinds of possibilities.

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02-17-2012, 06:20 AM
  #758
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I don't get the Laich hate.....he carried the team when Ov was suspended and is now playing hurt...,plays the PK, blocks shots fearlessly and can score 20 goals.....what's the problem?

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02-17-2012, 07:04 AM
  #759
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Originally Posted by CapitalsCup2012 View Post
Dude, when did Laich perform best? When he was a top 6 Wing. 25g, 59 pts. It's not like he's dragging down the team. NOBODY is scoring right now and he can play multiple positions.

I tell you what, when Kuznetzov signs a contract and gets over here to play and shows he can put up 25g and 50+ pts, and when GMGM finally gets that new 2C (har har), we can worry about Laich's contract. Boyd Gordon dude? For reals?
His contract is dragging down the team. If not today, than it will be next year because of reduced role.

I'm not saying Laich=Gordon, I'm saying Laich will be forced to play 3rd line shutdown role + primary PK/faceoff role. Those are tasks for a player like Boyd Gordon.

For everything Laich's current salary is based on (scoring and versatility) we just need a quality 2C. When (if) we will get one - Laich immediately will become overpriced glorified 3rd liner with low stats.


Just for example. This season Laich scored 10 goals (18:33 TOI, -6). Perreault got 9 (10:32 TOI, +6). Johansson got 11 (16:34 TOI, +4).

Next season we all want to see both Kuznetsov and new 2C performing at better rate.

Where do you think Laich will end up scoring-wise? What shift in TOI do you predict?

Will his salary be adequate for those new scoring levels?

The question is not about hate. It's about Ott could do the same for two thirds of the price.

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Old
02-17-2012, 07:11 AM
  #760
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Laich has always been a guy who makes hay on the PP (and PK, I suppose, if you're talking non-scoring value), correct?

PP's are down leaguewide, which makes Laich's value lower. If they continue to decline so does he. I'm a fan of Laich, and I don't think he's actually in the conversation as a guy to trade (barring a blockbuster deal) for another year or so since he just signed, but looking at the way the league is going and deciding "we might need those dollars elsewhere at this rate" isn't unreasonable either.

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02-17-2012, 07:34 AM
  #761
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the problem with this hockey team is at the top of the lineup and not the middle or bottom.

lets just look at semin 25 games, 23 pts. he's literally been consistant. no more than 2 pts in a given game. he's +14. whats missing? playing how the team plays now he seems almost invisible.

ovechkin is 22pts in that run of 25 games and...well....+3.

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02-17-2012, 07:36 AM
  #762
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Originally Posted by Halpysback View Post
I'd rather have Grabovski over Roy at this point.

Eakin, Galiev, 1st for Grabovski and Kulemin. If Backstrom and Green come back

Ovechkin Backstrom Brouwer
Kulemin Grabovski Semin
Chimera Laich Johansson (dose of speed and playmaking)
Hendricks Halpern Ward

Alzner Carlson
Hamrlik Green
Orlov Wideman

Where do we get this money?
And why does Toronto accept when they are higher in the standings than us?

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Old
02-17-2012, 08:12 AM
  #763
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Originally Posted by Halpysback View Post
I'd rather have Grabovski over Roy at this point.

Eakin, Galiev, 1st for Grabovski and Kulemin. If Backstrom and Green come back

Ovechkin Backstrom Brouwer
Kulemin Grabovski Semin
Chimera Laich Johansson (dose of speed and playmaking)
Hendricks Halpern Ward

Alzner Carlson
Hamrlik Green
Orlov Wideman



Don't think our problem is soft players as much as lack of fearless players. Grabovski plays with reckless abandon even if he won't light anyone up. Keep other team on their heels. We could use that.

Well I know you're only dreaming, but come the off season Grabovski via the FA route and Kulemin in a trade would not be such a bad thing. Though we are venturing in to European overload territory. But we'd have to be moving salaries and bodies out and to tell you the truth Laich for Kulemin might be workable move. Ward has to go though as well for cap purposes.

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02-17-2012, 08:31 AM
  #764
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Originally Posted by txpd View Post
the problem with this hockey team is at the top of the lineup and not the middle or bottom.

lets just look at semin 25 games, 23 pts. he's literally been consistant. no more than 2 pts in a given game. he's +14. whats missing? playing how the team plays now he seems almost invisible.

ovechkin is 22pts in that run of 25 games and...well....+3.
Actually, the problems run up and down the lineup. We need secondary scoring, especially since we are paying through the nose for it. Laich and Ward are 50% off their career production paces. This despite making every penny available to them in UFA. Hell Hendricks should double his production given on ice and financial expectations.

Those three players are shorting us about 20-25 goals. Which would translate to a lot of wins over the past 55 games.

Are Ovechkin, Semin and Green destroying this team? Yes. But they're getting a lot of help too.

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02-17-2012, 08:44 AM
  #765
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Originally Posted by BrooklynCapsFan View Post
Actually, the problems run up and down the lineup. We need secondary scoring, especially since we are paying through the nose for it. Laich and Ward are 50% off their career production paces. This despite making every penny available to them in UFA. Hell Hendricks should double his production given on ice and financial expectations.

Those three players are shorting us about 20-25 goals. Which would translate to a lot of wins over the past 55 games.

Are Ovechkin, Semin and Green destroying this team? Yes. But they're getting a lot of help too.
personally, i dont see how semin is destroying the team considering his performance over the past 25 games.

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02-17-2012, 08:47 AM
  #766
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personally, i dont see how semin is destroying the team considering his performance over the past 25 games.
Um. Because just like every year, he only shows up for half the games.

It's also sad how the standards for a Semin heater have eroded. He used to be good for 30+ in 20 from time to time. Now folks are getting worked up for a sub ppg run.

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02-17-2012, 08:49 AM
  #767
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personally, i dont see how semin is destroying the team considering his performance over the past 25 games.
Agreed. Since Hunter arrived he definitely been the best player on the team. Period. People hate him, but they are stuck in that mode and not looking at what is really going on.

People love Carlson, but he's been one of the worst on the team since Hunter arrived.

I just don't get it.

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02-17-2012, 09:01 AM
  #768
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Agreed. Since Hunter arrived he definitely been the best player on the team. Period. People hate him, but they are stuck in that mode and not looking at what is really going on.

People love Carlson, but he's been one of the worst on the team since Hunter arrived.

I just don't get it.
Ummm, who has been defending Carlson in the last couple months?

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02-17-2012, 09:09 AM
  #769
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Originally Posted by sunnydaycrash View Post
I don't get the Laich hate.....he carried the team when Ov was suspended and is now playing hurt...,plays the PK, blocks shots fearlessly and can score 20 goals.....what's the problem?
Count me in as a non-hater of Laich. He does what he supposed to do. He isn't a top 2 line player and having to play it. People complain about his contract, but I think he paid his dues compared to Ward and Schultz.

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02-17-2012, 09:13 AM
  #770
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Grabo on a short contract wouldn't be bad. Given the scarcity of 2nd line centers and so many teams in playoff contention now, he is going to get a contract that will give HF posters a stroke. I wouldn't want him long term, but 2 years isn't that bad. I do not believe he'll be traded this year unless Toronto really slides before the deadline.

Go Caps!

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02-17-2012, 09:17 AM
  #771
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Agreed. Since Hunter arrived he definitely been the best player on the team. Period. People hate him, but they are stuck in that mode and not looking at what is really going on.

People love Carlson, but he's been one of the worst on the team since Hunter arrived.

I just don't get it.
Some just hate to hate. With Semin, I can understand the argument based on his inconsistency over the years, but yes he has been the best player under DH. Kind of funny considering he isn't a DH style player.

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02-17-2012, 09:20 AM
  #772
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**** Semin. Trade his ass.

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02-17-2012, 09:27 AM
  #773
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**** Semin. Trade his ass.
Yup. And not that I give a ****, but this doesn't even count as hating. He has failed to live up to his potential for 7 years here. 7 years.

If anyone here performed like him at work, your ass would be fired well before you built up 7 years tenure.

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02-17-2012, 09:51 AM
  #774
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40 goals?

That's not hitting his potential?

I realize he has top 5 abilities. But come on now. He has been pretty good at times. Frustrating, sporadic, but he certainly has met his billing 73, 79, 84 points are great for pretty much anyone.

The revisionism and exaggeration coming out of some is what's sadder than the dilemma they've got themselves into. I'm not sure what end of yourself you're talking out of.

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02-17-2012, 09:58 AM
  #775
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40 goals?

That's not hitting his potential?

I realize he has top 5 abilities. But come on now. He has been pretty good at times. Frustrating, sporadic, but he certainly has met his billing 73, 79, 84 points are great for pretty much anyone.

The revisionism and exaggeration coming out of some is what's sadder than the dilemma they've got themselves into. I'm not sure what end of yourself you're talking out of.
So three good years out of seven then. Hell in addition to the year where he just chose not to show up for work, ill give him a pass on his rookie season too. Three good years out of six.

I define that as not playing to your potential.

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