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Acq/ Rost. Bldg./ Cap Part VII

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Old
02-18-2012, 02:09 PM
  #901
txpd
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semin is in a solid point per game run of 26 games where he is the team's leading scorer.
with his scoring resume, $4.5m doesnt touch him. whats next? green for $2m?

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02-18-2012, 02:17 PM
  #902
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26 games.....big whooptydo. 4.5, maybe 5 max is what I would pay him. I'll take Hemsky and Kuznetzov (or somethng similar) to happily to replace those magical 26 games that those fans who are easily impressed and up in arms about Semin's short stretch of good production.

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02-18-2012, 02:18 PM
  #903
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Originally Posted by CapitalsCup2012 View Post

Too many people enamoured with the Semin of 2 years ago who actually lived up to his billing for one season where he was healthy enough to play 73 games, most since his rookie season.

I would prefer Semin signing for 4.5 which is about what he deserves. Problem solved.
Semin has been a PPG player for about 25 straight, and out best forward under Hunter. That isn't two years ago.

What player scoring at Semin's pace make 4.5 mil? The only ones who do are players who signed contracts prior to doing it.

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02-18-2012, 02:20 PM
  #904
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Originally Posted by bonzaibondra12 View Post
Semin has been a PPG player for about 25 straight, and out best forward under Hunter. That isn't two years ago.

What player scoring at Semin's pace make 4.5 mil? The only ones who do are players who signed contracts prior to doing it.
See above post for easily impressed Semin fans.

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02-18-2012, 02:20 PM
  #905
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Originally Posted by CapitalsCup2012 View Post
26 games.....big whooptydo. 4.5, maybe 5 max is what I would pay him. I'll take Hemsky and Kuznetzov (or somethng similar) to happily to replace those magical 26 games that those fans who are easily impressed and up in arms about Semin's short stretch of good production.
You trollin? Seriously, Hemsky? Brb 4 goals on the season, -16, doesn't hit, doesn't play defense.

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02-18-2012, 02:29 PM
  #906
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He'd rather be easily impressed with Laich's intangibles for the same price he thinks Semin deserves. I seriously don't know what player he's watching.

Semin at 5.25-5.5 is far far more valuable than Laich at 4.5.

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02-18-2012, 02:33 PM
  #907
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Originally Posted by mrwarden View Post
He'd rather be easily impressed with Laich's intangibles for the same price he thinks Semin deserves. I seriously don't know what player he's watching.

Semin at 5.25-5.5 is far far more valuable than Laich at 4.5.
If you hate Semin, give me a good replacement. Kuz isn't a replacement, he'll be here regardless, and probably shouldn't be expected in the top-6 immediately.

Hemsky is an even more injury prone, more coasting, less talented version of Semin. He brings little at this point even when healthy.

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02-18-2012, 02:43 PM
  #908
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Originally Posted by Brave Sir Robin View Post
Yeah, let's trade away all our skill players when their value is at it's lowest.

Frankly I find the notion that we should get rid of Semin so we can afford studs like Brooks Laich, Joel Ward, and Roman Hamrlik to be quite ridiculous.

While it's true that Semin is overpaid this season, his contract hasn't really been much of a problem. It's not like the extra 1.5mil we're paying him prevented us from signing a game changing UFA this offseason. Hell, GMGM was able to afford to give out several ridiculous contracts that will come back to bite us in the years to come.

Unlike pretty much every other UFA we overpaid this season, Semin's deal runs out July 1st. We're not saddled with his cap hit for several more years. Here's an idea: how about instead of trading him for scraps or letting him walk we try to sign him to a more reasonable contract?
Hah, I am actually partial to Semin. But you can't tell me that he's been worth his contract in playoffs. Every other series or thereabout, sure. But that's not good enough, unfortunately.

And the whole argument that there are more overpaid players on the team or that if you ship him out GMGM would get more overpaid players.. is just trivial. In the first case, all it means is that there are players that deserve to get shipped out first -- I agree, but it doesn't mean that Semin has earned his keep, either. In the second case, well if the assumption is that the Caps are destined to keep signing the likes of Ward, then it's all hopeless and there's nothing to discuss -- if we're gonna get bums, by all means lets keep the ones we already have.

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02-18-2012, 02:45 PM
  #909
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Originally Posted by artilector View Post
Hah, I am actually partial to Semin. But you can't tell me that he's been worth his contract in playoffs. Every other series or thereabout, sure. But that's not good enough, unfortunately.

And the whole argument that there are more overpaid players on the team or that if you ship him out GMGM would get more overpaid players.. is just trivial. In the first case, all it means is that there are players that deserve to get shipped out first -- I agree, but it doesn't mean that Semin has earned his keep, either. In the second case, well if the assumption is that the Caps are destined to keep signing the likes of Ward, then it's all hopeless and there's nothing to discuss -- if we're gonna get bums, by all means lets keep the ones we already have.
He won us a series last year. Outside of OV, who on this team can say that?

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02-18-2012, 02:53 PM
  #910
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Originally Posted by Ridley Simon View Post
I understand that, yet GMGM has never really done that successfully. Yes, Brouwer this past year partially fits into that mold...but he hoards his nuts, and to some extent I am fearful of his ability to change those 1st round chits everyone wants....turns those chits into real players.
But I think we've been talking about hypotheticals, anyway. Because there's no evidence that McPhee might actually start selling off this team, so if we are to remain firmly grounded in realistic scenarios, I think we can all be fairly confident that not much is gonna change this year -- recall McPhee's own recent remarks. Unfortunately, that's not fun for discussion:

- Hey, so I think the Caps are gonna hold on to everybody, get cosmetic help at the deadline, squeak into the playoffs, get hammered there, use injuries as an excuse, try again next year.
- Yeah, I agree.. See you next year then.
- See you next year.


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02-18-2012, 03:04 PM
  #911
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Originally Posted by IafrateOvie34 View Post
[/B]


Yes sir, 110 percent agree. In the off-season trade something for Clutterbuck. Gives us another character guy that finishes checks and works hard. If Grabovski isn't resigned in Toronto, make a pitch for him. Hold hope for Suter, but that is going to be a big fight among big spenders.
If the wheels fall off before the TDL, the Caps should be sellers.
- Vokoun signed with the Caps with the idea of not only getting into the playoffs but going far in the playoffs, if we become sellers doubt Vokoun would want to return next season thus trade him. A deal of Vokoun, Knuble and Erskine to the Blackhawks might fetch a 1st rounder and one of their better prospects and maybe even another pick.
- Wideman's value will never be higher, send him to the Devils for their first rounder but try to include Joel Ward as well and get our second back from them as well.
- At end of season trade first rounder and the Boston 2nd rounder plus Neuvirth to Columbus for Tyutin
- Sign FAs Grabovski for the 2C position and Jordin Tootoo for the 3rd line position vacated by Ward's departure. Sign a FA Goalie to replace Vokoun and bring up Holtby.

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02-18-2012, 03:06 PM
  #912
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Originally Posted by bonzaibondra12 View Post
If you hate Semin, give me a good replacement. Kuz isn't a replacement, he'll be here regardless, and probably shouldn't be expected in the top-6 immediately.

Hemsky is an even more injury prone, more coasting, less talented version of Semin. He brings little at this point even when healthy.
not sure why you're quoting me, I've never wanted Semin gone

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Old
02-18-2012, 03:17 PM
  #913
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Originally Posted by bonzaibondra12 View Post
He won us a series last year. Outside of OV, who on this team can say that?
Well I don't dispute the fact that there are playoff series where Semin has made a big impact, and that's a feather in his cap. But you know, based on all these Caps postseason series.. my feeling is you can't expect to win a close series with any of your real expensive players not contributing. And that's the thing with Semin, there have been series where based on what I saw, he made almost no visible contributions. When that happens, you're screwed. And if out of the four series that it takes to win the cup your 6m sniper can be expected to be insignificant in like 2 of them, that's a big problem.

I feel the same way about Green -- even more so, actually, because unlike Semin, when Green is not providing offense, he can be a net defensive liability. My take is that in the postseason, you can't really afford to have expensive inconsistent mostly one-dimensional weapons. When they go cold in a playoff series, the odds become tremendously stacked against you.

I do honestly like #28 as a player, he can be so much fun to watch, and I still would like to see what he could do with a decent 2C. But if I had to be objective, I'd have to admit that he's been more a part of the problem, rather than the solution, in playoffs. That's Semin at 6m+, mind you. If he were to take a pay cut, that would change the equation, as it always does.

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02-18-2012, 03:22 PM
  #914
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You know who disappears in the playoffs?

Brooks Laich.

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02-18-2012, 03:26 PM
  #915
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Originally Posted by BobRouse View Post
No chance. The guy brings it every night and is probably THE most versatile player in the NHL. He can play up and down the lineup and at any position including D. He can PK as well as be on the PP where he looks good on the point as well as in front of the net. Blocks shots, plays injured and can play in an offensive or defensive capacity.

Not to mention he is a strong voice in the locker room. These are not players you trade to save a few bucks.
I think the versatility aspect is significantly overrated. Anyway, if your team requires a lot of versatile players, it means your GM has done a bad job filling specific positions. And token depth is cheap to acquire.

As far as the overall toughness. Laich is tough, but he's not very physical, he's not especially good along the boards, his going to the net only stands out because our other players don't do it enough, not because he's especially good at it.

He's a nice player, but you can find somebody who'll do 90% or more of what he does for 2m cheaper. Example -- Brouwer.

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02-18-2012, 03:26 PM
  #916
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Originally Posted by mrwarden View Post
not sure why you're quoting me, I've never wanted Semin gone
I was agreeing on fair value, but saying that anyone who wants him gone to provide who replaces him. That part wasn't directed at you, sorry.

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02-18-2012, 03:40 PM
  #917
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Originally Posted by sonsofcain View Post
You know who disappears in the playoffs?

Brooks Laich.
Unless you are stranded on the Roosevelt Bridge.

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02-18-2012, 03:46 PM
  #918
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Well I don't dispute the fact that there are playoff series where Semin has made a big impact, and that's a feather in his cap. But you know, based on all these Caps postseason series.. my feeling is you can't expect to win a close series with any of your real expensive players not contributing. And that's the thing with Semin, there have been series where based on what I saw, he made almost no visible contributions. When that happens, you're screwed. And if out of the four series that it takes to win the cup your 6m sniper can be expected to be insignificant in like 2 of them, that's a big problem.

I feel the same way about Green -- even more so, actually, because unlike Semin, when Green is not providing offense, he can be a net defensive liability. My take is that in the postseason, you can't really afford to have expensive inconsistent mostly one-dimensional weapons. When they go cold in a playoff series, the odds become tremendously stacked against you.

I do honestly like #28 as a player, he can be so much fun to watch, and I still would like to see what he could do with a decent 2C. But if I had to be objective, I'd have to admit that he's been more a part of the problem, rather than the solution, in playoffs. That's Semin at 6m+, mind you. If he were to take a pay cut, that would change the equation, as it always does.
You can easily spin it the other way around. Although you have to win 4 series, one could argue that having someone on your team that can win 2 of those almost by himself is worth more than having a consistent guy that scores a couple goals each series. Players are going to have bad series, be it from injury or a goalie having his number.

The series that I remember Semin not having a huge impact on were the Pens series where he was playing with a broken/severely injured wrist after the Orpik slash. He was stonewalled by Halak although he put 44 shots on goal and rang a couple pipes. It is in series like that when you need the grinder types need to step up and put in some garbage goals. He was pretty flat against the Bolts. I don't think anyone is going to disagree there, but most of the team seemed to give up after the first couple games.

30 points in 37 games total. That scoring rate would have put him in the top 10 or close to it in just about every playoff year since the lockout.

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02-18-2012, 03:47 PM
  #919
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Originally Posted by artilector View Post
I think the versatility aspect is significantly overrated. Anyway, if your team requires a lot of versatile players, it means your GM has done a bad job filling specific positions. And token depth is cheap to acquire.

As far as the overall toughness. Laich is tough, but he's not very physical, he's not especially good along the boards, his going to the net only stands out because our other players don't do it enough, not because he's especially good at it.

He's a nice player, but you can find somebody who'll do 90% or more of what he does for 2m cheaper. Example -- Brouwer.
I agree with most except for where you compare to Brouwer. Laich is about 50% in the dot, leads the team in takeaways, and leads forwards in blocked shots. We overpaid for him, but Brouwer isn't really a fair comparison.

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02-18-2012, 03:54 PM
  #920
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Unless you are stranded on the Roosevelt Bridge.
Excellent Call

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02-18-2012, 03:58 PM
  #921
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Originally Posted by bonzaibondra12 View Post
I agree with most except for where you compare to Brouwer. Laich is about 50% in the dot, leads the team in takeaways, and leads forwards in blocked shots. We overpaid for him, but Brouwer isn't really a fair comparison.
Blocked shots, ok, fair enough.

But, Brouwer is a much better screener than Laich, and that has been very noticeable, for me at least.

As far as 50% in the dot -- what kind of an achievement is that? If you mean as an option when your primary center gets thrown out, that's a very 2nd order effect for me.

So far, I don't see Laich is a significantly more valuable contributor than Brouwer..

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02-18-2012, 04:01 PM
  #922
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I think Brouwer has a little bit more offensive skill than Laich. Laich also does some things Brouwer doesn't.

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02-18-2012, 04:05 PM
  #923
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The problem with Semin is that he doesn't provide anything beyond offensive production, and his recurring boneheaded decisions are emblematic of the issues this team has offensively.

Replacing him with someone who gives a more intelligent and consistent effort would improve the top 6.

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02-18-2012, 04:10 PM
  #924
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So now we're on to pretending Semin doesn't play defense. Wonder what's next.

Who needs offensive production when you can have Brooks Laich being "versatile"

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02-18-2012, 04:15 PM
  #925
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Sure, Semin plays defense when he wants to. It's about as consistent as his offensive effort.

And I don't get why anyone thinks Brooks Laich has anything to do with Semin--he doesn't. If your main argument for Semin is arguing against Laich, you're not making the greatest case.

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