HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > Washington Capitals
Notices

Acq/ Rost. Bldg./ Cap Part VII

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
02-18-2012, 04:15 PM
  #926
txpd
Registered User
 
txpd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 39,061
vCash: 500
except his control of bonehead decisions since hunter has been better than any other playing skill player on the roster. the lack of stick penalties in that period and the likely team leading plus/minus figure seem to point to that. his turn around in that area is rather striking.

seems to me that there are some here who's minds are made and any positives 28 brings to the table only create hope of a trade with a return.

txpd is online now  
Old
02-18-2012, 04:17 PM
  #927
NobodyBeatsTheWiz
Happy now?
 
NobodyBeatsTheWiz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Old Town
Posts: 18,142
vCash: 500
Yeah, the way Semin's playing, you'd think his contract was expiring or something...

NobodyBeatsTheWiz is online now  
Old
02-18-2012, 04:18 PM
  #928
mrwarden
Nothing Witty
 
mrwarden's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Austin, TX
Country: United States
Posts: 8,983
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NobodyBeatsTheWiz View Post
Sure, Semin plays defense when he wants to. It's about as consistent as his offensive effort.

And I don't get why anyone thinks Brooks Laich has anything to do with Semin--he doesn't. If your main argument for Semin is arguing against Laich, you're not making the greatest case.
They're related because everyone agrees we need a 2c and don't have room. Some of us want to get rid of Laich to bring Semin the 2c he's never had. And some want to bring one in to be the only scoring threat on his line like Semin's been.

If you want to talk about bringing another gear, I'd bet Semin would be giddy as **** to have a consistent talented linemate.

__________________
mrwarden is in ur threads, deleting ur posts
mrwarden is offline  
Old
02-18-2012, 04:26 PM
  #929
Halpysback
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 7,442
vCash: 500
So basically it doesn't matter what he actually does because his name is Alexander Semin. None of that corresponds to anything he's been doing since Hunter took over.

Pretty much all of our top end players are about as inconsistent as Semin. Even Alzner makes a lot more brainfarts than people are willing to acknowledge. Backstrom is the only one you can argue to be a high end consistent player, but even if he shoves his head up his ass like he did all of last year he'll still be worshiped as a model of consistency. But all of them get a pass because they're != Semin. Pretty much every player, high end or otherwise, makes tons of mistakes and gives questionable effort from time to time. Everyone's 2nd line wet dream Getzlaf has been coasting and half assing it for 2 years now. Suter has looked foolish on plenty of goals against whenever I looked at Nashville's playoff games. Semin is the only one I can think of where every single mistake is forever etched into everyone's memory. He's been more effective hockey than anyone else on the team since Hunter took over, and he's still the inconsistent one dragging everyone's play down

Didn't realize I needed an argument for a player who was instrumental in winning the only 2 playoff series this core has to date, while playing with scraps.


Last edited by Halpysback: 02-18-2012 at 04:32 PM.
Halpysback is offline  
Old
02-18-2012, 04:30 PM
  #930
Halpysback
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 7,442
vCash: 500
So now him playing well is a knock against him

This is priceless

Halpysback is offline  
Old
02-18-2012, 04:38 PM
  #931
Ridley Simon
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 5,038
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Halpysback View Post
So basically it doesn't matter what he actually does because his name is Alexander Semin. None of that corresponds to anything he's been doing since Hunter took over.

Pretty much all of our top end players are about as inconsistent as Semin. Even Alzner makes a lot more brainfarts than people are willing to acknowledge. Backstrom is the only one you can argue to be a high end consistent player, but even if he shoves his head up his ass like he did all of last year he'll still be worshiped as a model of consistency. But all of them get a pass because they're != Semin. Pretty much every player, high end or otherwise, makes tons of mistakes and gives questionable effort from time to time. Everyone's 2nd line wet dream Getzlaf has been coasting and half assing it for 2 years now. Suter has looked foolish on plenty of goals against whenever I looked at Nashville's playoff games. Semin is the only one I can think of where every single mistake is forever etched into everyone's memory. He's been more effective hockey than anyone else on the team since Hunter took over, and he's still the inconsistent one dragging everyone's play down

Didn't realize I needed an argument for a player who was instrumental in winning the only 2 playoff series this core has to date, while playing with scraps.
you're painting with a broad brush here. Most dont think poorly of Semin. I think the net net for most even keeled posters is this: is the almost 7m in salary, little more than 10% of the teams total cap, spent wisely on Alex Semin?

I dont think it has been, this year. Probably not so much last year, either.

But that same argument can easily be thrown up against Green, Laich, and Ovechkin.

Only Backstrom, Brouwer, Alzner, Majo, Voukoun and Wideman have performed to their contracts this season (not counting Carslon, Orlov, etc, so young cheap ones).....

So yea, Semin is part of the problem this year for sure. That said, doesnt mean I want him gone. I'd like to see more dedication to the program for almost 7m, but I can certainly say that about Ovechkin and Green as well **this year**

Ridley Simon is offline  
Old
02-18-2012, 04:39 PM
  #932
artilector
Registered User
 
artilector's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 4,523
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stewie G View Post
You can easily spin it the other way around. Although you have to win 4 series, one could argue that having someone on your team that can win 2 of those almost by himself is worth more than having a consistent guy that scores a couple goals each series. Players are going to have bad series, be it from injury or a goalie having his number.

The series that I remember Semin not having a huge impact on were the Pens series where he was playing with a broken/severely injured wrist after the Orpik slash. He was stonewalled by Halak although he put 44 shots on goal and rang a couple pipes. It is in series like that when you need the grinder types need to step up and put in some garbage goals. He was pretty flat against the Bolts. I don't think anyone is going to disagree there, but most of the team seemed to give up after the first couple games.

30 points in 37 games total. That scoring rate would have put him in the top 10 or close to it in just about every playoff year since the lockout.
As far as consistency vs. top-end performance, I don't know that there's enough evidence to conclusively and objectively evaluate Semin. It comes down to a subjective assessment.

I mean sure, if your take is that Semin was incapacitated against the Pens, unlucky against the Habs, and dragged down by the rest of the team against Bolts, then you can justify it. But to me there's not enough evidence there. With injuries you never really know the truth, hitting many pipes means you're likely taking a lot of very high-risk shots, and if you're paid 6m you can't justify not performing by saying "that guy didn't do his job either". Like you said, you can assess it/spin it in different ways.

The other thing with Semin is that when he is off in a series, his contribution doesn't just revert to the level of typical 2-3m guys, unfortunately. Because those guys -- they are usually working their butts off on the boards, filling lanes, blocking shots, crashing the net, whatever. I'm not saying that Semin starts pouting, but he simply isn't as effective at that stuff (except takeaways, but not sure he does that consistently either). So in a series when his offense isn't there, I've seen opponents' 2m grinders contribute significantly more (even without scoring) than Semin. And that really does kill you.

So my conclusion is -- and I'm not asserting it as some indisputable fact -- just how I feel, is that if you want playoff success, your highly paid offensive stars need to satisfy two criteria:
1) They need to bring a certain minimal level of offense in "almost every" series.
2) When their offense is sputtering, their overall contribution ("little things") still needs to at least match that of a decent grinder.

Subjectively, I want Semin to stay, play with a real 2C, and put it together. Objectively, I can't argue that the Caps might be better off trading him and spending the money elsewhere (although if the plan is to buy two more Wards, then.. ouch). Though I'd trade Green and Laich first..

artilector is offline  
Old
02-18-2012, 04:43 PM
  #933
mrwarden
Nothing Witty
 
mrwarden's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Austin, TX
Country: United States
Posts: 8,983
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ridley Simon View Post
you're painting with a broad brush here. Most dont think poorly of Semin. I think the net net for most even keeled posters is this: is the almost 7m in salary, little more than 10% of the teams total cap, spent wisely on Alex Semin?

I dont think it has been, this year. Probably not so much last year, either.

But that same argument can easily be thrown up against Green, Laich, and Ovechkin.

Only Backstrom, Brouwer, Alzner, Majo, Voukoun and Wideman have performed to their contracts this season (not counting Carslon, Orlov, etc, so young cheap ones).....

So yea, Semin is part of the problem this year for sure. That said, doesnt mean I want him gone. I'd like to see more dedication to the program for almost 7m, but I can certainly say that about Ovechkin and Green as well **this year**
He's not getting 7 mil. From anyone, even as a UFA although GMGM makes me nervous with how he tends to overpay.

Honestly, give the guy a ****ing center and I bet he'd sign for 5.25 for term.

Most likely scenario: GMGM signs him for 6.7 again, more than anyone would offer for another 1 year deal because he is incapable of picking a direction. Still no center. 2nd most likely: he walks for nothing cause GMGM is a moron.

mrwarden is offline  
Old
02-18-2012, 04:45 PM
  #934
Ridley Simon
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 5,038
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrwarden View Post
He's not getting 7 mil. From anyone, even as a UFA although GMGM makes me nervous with how he tends to overpay.

Honestly, give the guy a ****ing center and I bet he'd sign for 5.25 for term.

Most likely scenario: GMGM signs him for 6.7 again, more than anyone would offer for another 1 year deal. Still no center. 2nd most likely: he walks for nothing cause GMGM is a moron.
well, he's currently making 6.7m. Stones throw from 7m. And each year his salary continue to tick upwards, just like the salary cap does. Hell, even a 5% raise (Sal Cap will have about an 7% raise it look like) will take him beyond 7m.

We will see

Ridley Simon is offline  
Old
02-18-2012, 04:54 PM
  #935
txpd
Registered User
 
txpd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 39,061
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NobodyBeatsTheWiz View Post
Yeah, the way Semin's playing, you'd think his contract was expiring or something...
iirc the last extention came during a scoring slump and the one before that while injured.

like i said, there are some here that will have an answer for anything that happens with this player. so, no matter what he does and no matter how badly the team needs his production, they want him gone.

txpd is online now  
Old
02-18-2012, 04:56 PM
  #936
mrwarden
Nothing Witty
 
mrwarden's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Austin, TX
Country: United States
Posts: 8,983
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ridley Simon View Post
well, he's currently making 6.7m. Stones throw from 7m. And each year his salary continue to tick upwards, just like the salary cap does. Hell, even a 5% raise (Sal Cap will have about an 7% raise it look like) will take him beyond 7m.

We will see
His 6.7 mil contracts were signed on 79 points in 62 games and 84 in 73.

He's at 36 in 53. Even at 60 points or so, he's not getting a raise. In fact, with Nick sitting at 6.7 mil for 10 years, no one is getting more than that in the next year or two on this team.

mrwarden is offline  
Old
02-18-2012, 04:59 PM
  #937
artilector
Registered User
 
artilector's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 4,523
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ridley Simon View Post
you're painting with a broad brush here. Most dont think poorly of Semin. I think the net net for most even keeled posters is this: is the almost 7m in salary, little more than 10% of the teams total cap, spent wisely on Alex Semin?

I dont think it has been, this year. Probably not so much last year, either.

But that same argument can easily be thrown up against Green, Laich, and Ovechkin.

Only Backstrom, Brouwer, Alzner, Majo, Voukoun and Wideman have performed to their contracts this season (not counting Carslon, Orlov, etc, so young cheap ones).....

So yea, Semin is part of the problem this year for sure. That said, doesnt mean I want him gone. I'd like to see more dedication to the program for almost 7m, but I can certainly say that about Ovechkin and Green as well **this year**
That's exactly how I feel. With every player it comes down to salary, anyway. There would be zero controversy if Laich and Semin made say 2.5m and 4.5m respectively. Unfortunately, their actual salaries can cripple the team if you're not getting appropriate performance.

artilector is offline  
Old
02-18-2012, 05:02 PM
  #938
CapitalsCupFantasy
HFBoards Sponsor
 
CapitalsCupFantasy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: United States
Posts: 27,204
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by bonzaibondra12 View Post
If you hate Semin, give me a good replacement. Kuz isn't a replacement, he'll be here regardless, and probably shouldn't be expected in the top-6 immediately.

Hemsky is an even more injury prone, more coasting, less talented version of Semin. He brings little at this point even when healthy.
I threw out one name, knowing damn well you guys would jump quickly to tear any suggestion apart.

Simple truth is that it's McPhee's job to figure out how to turn a 7 mil a year part timer with no intangibles into a respectable 2nd line.

__________________
George McPhee....The Teflon GM. 15 years of failure and counting....

6 - Number of playoff series the Capitals have won since George McPhee took over as General Manager in 1997 (which makes him the third-longest-tenured GM in the League), three of which came in McPhee's first season on the job.
CapitalsCupFantasy is offline  
Old
02-18-2012, 05:07 PM
  #939
CapitalsCupFantasy
HFBoards Sponsor
 
CapitalsCupFantasy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: United States
Posts: 27,204
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrwarden View Post
He'd rather be easily impressed with Laich's intangibles for the same price he thinks Semin deserves. I seriously don't know what player he's watching.

Semin at 5.25-5.5 is far far more valuable than Laich at 4.5.


Unfortunately your fantasy version on Semin is just that. Reality is the one for just shy of 7 mil.


Fwiw I would take a 5 mil Semin sure...

CapitalsCupFantasy is offline  
Old
02-18-2012, 05:07 PM
  #940
artilector
Registered User
 
artilector's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 4,523
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by txpd View Post
iirc the last extention came during a scoring slump and the one before that while injured.

like i said, there are some here that will have an answer for anything that happens with this player. so, no matter what he does and no matter how badly the team needs his production, they want him gone.

artilector is offline  
Old
02-18-2012, 05:14 PM
  #941
Ridley Simon
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 5,038
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrwarden View Post
His 6.7 mil contracts were signed on 79 points in 62 games and 84 in 73.

He's at 36 in 53. Even at 60 points or so, he's not getting a raise. In fact, with Nick sitting at 6.7 mil for 10 years, no one is getting more than that in the next year or two on this team.
Possibly, but I wouldnt sound so certain. History states otherwise, and if he's looking for another 1yr deal, I could easily see a repeat of the 6.7m, or a tick up. Even a tick down to 6.2 or 6.5 is a lot of coin for Semin's production this year.

If he wants term from us, it'll be lower. If he wants year to year, I see it staying 6.7m ish, +/- a few hundred thou. As you said, GMGM will overpay for a year cause he's afraid to go in any other direction.

Maybe I'm wrong, will see.

Open Market? He gets 6/36, I'd think....roughly. (and probably boo'd out of his new arena, early on in his new campaign)


Last edited by Ridley Simon: 02-18-2012 at 05:21 PM.
Ridley Simon is offline  
Old
02-18-2012, 06:16 PM
  #942
CapitalsCupFantasy
HFBoards Sponsor
 
CapitalsCupFantasy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: United States
Posts: 27,204
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by txpd View Post
iirc the last extention came during a scoring slump and the one before that while injured.

like i said, there are some here that will have an answer for anything that happens with this player. so, no matter what he does and no matter how badly the team needs his production, they want him gone.
Theres no Semin witchhunt. I don't see anyone saying they want Semin gone at all costs. Pay him closer to 5 instead of 7 and you have a player that you can deal with for his production and lack of intangibles and more money to throw at a 2C.

CapitalsCupFantasy is offline  
Old
02-18-2012, 06:22 PM
  #943
Mystlyfe
We're Touched
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 11,137
vCash: 500
I don't anticipate Semin taking a penny under $6M unless you sign him to an incredibly long deal.

Mystlyfe is online now  
Old
02-18-2012, 06:32 PM
  #944
Stewie G
Erskine for Norris
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,976
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by artilector View Post
As far as consistency vs. top-end performance, I don't know that there's enough evidence to conclusively and objectively evaluate Semin. It comes down to a subjective assessment.

I mean sure, if your take is that Semin was incapacitated against the Pens, unlucky against the Habs, and dragged down by the rest of the team against Bolts, then you can justify it. But to me there's not enough evidence there. With injuries you never really know the truth, hitting many pipes means you're likely taking a lot of very high-risk shots, and if you're paid 6m you can't justify not performing by saying "that guy didn't do his job either". Like you said, you can assess it/spin it in different ways.

The other thing with Semin is that when he is off in a series, his contribution doesn't just revert to the level of typical 2-3m guys, unfortunately. Because those guys -- they are usually working their butts off on the boards, filling lanes, blocking shots, crashing the net, whatever. I'm not saying that Semin starts pouting, but he simply isn't as effective at that stuff (except takeaways, but not sure he does that consistently either). So in a series when his offense isn't there, I've seen opponents' 2m grinders contribute significantly more (even without scoring) than Semin. And that really does kill you.

So my conclusion is -- and I'm not asserting it as some indisputable fact -- just how I feel, is that if you want playoff success, your highly paid offensive stars need to satisfy two criteria:
1) They need to bring a certain minimal level of offense in "almost every" series.
2) When their offense is sputtering, their overall contribution ("little things") still needs to at least match that of a decent grinder.

Subjectively, I want Semin to stay, play with a real 2C, and put it together. Objectively, I can't argue that the Caps might be better off trading him and spending the money elsewhere (although if the plan is to buy two more Wards, then.. ouch). Though I'd trade Green and Laich first..
I can respect that position. The only thing I question is about not having enough evidence to justify two of the three no-shows. The slash from Orpik was blatant and he clearly was a different player than he was against the Rangers. His wrister had no zip. One of the only goals he had in the series was a change-up of a shot from zero angle. I'm also not sure how you can question the 44 shots and couple of pipes against Montreal and not consider that at least a little unlucky. I can't imagine Semin ever having a stretch of 44 straight shots without a goal at any point in his career before that. The Bolts series I concede that there isn't any evidence, but Semin has been known to be moody and it wouldn't surprise me if zoned out after not getting anything going offensively and seeing pucks go in for Tampa off skates, legs, and everything else.

Stewie G is offline  
Old
02-18-2012, 06:38 PM
  #945
Chimaera
same ol' Caps
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: La Plata, Maryland
Country: United States
Posts: 21,212
vCash: 500
say what you want, but Brouwer's been a home run.

Chimaera is offline  
Old
02-18-2012, 07:05 PM
  #946
bonzaibondra12
Registered User
 
bonzaibondra12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Rockville, MD
Posts: 1,874
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CapitalsCup2012 View Post
I threw out one name, knowing damn well you guys would jump quickly to tear any suggestion apart.

Simple truth is that it's McPhee's job to figure out how to turn a 7 mil a year part timer with no intangibles into a respectable 2nd line.
Here is an idea. throw out a legit name of a guy that could replace Semin for that price. I'll wait.

And being second on the team in takeaways isn't an intangible?

bonzaibondra12 is offline  
Old
02-18-2012, 07:13 PM
  #947
tmljeh19
Registered User
 
tmljeh19's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 829
vCash: 500
I wish GMGM would just wake the **** up and make a move already. This team will be well enough out of it by the TDL.

tmljeh19 is offline  
Old
02-18-2012, 07:14 PM
  #948
Marshall
Too right, man.
 
Marshall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Old Town Alexandria
Posts: 11,695
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chimaera View Post
say what you want, but Brouwer's been a home run.
Full co-sign. Great trade.

Marshall is offline  
Old
02-18-2012, 07:18 PM
  #949
tmljeh19
Registered User
 
tmljeh19's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 829
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marshall View Post
Full co-sign. Great trade.
Agreed. So lets be straight GMGM is 2 1/2 for 5 when it comes to players added this offsesason. Two of the misses are highest paid ones

tmljeh19 is offline  
Old
02-18-2012, 07:20 PM
  #950
Capitlols
Blow it up
 
Capitlols's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Country: United States
Posts: 10,039
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by tmljeh19 View Post
I wish GMGM would just wake the **** up and make a move already. This team will be well enough out of it by the TDL.
He's hamstrung with zero cap space and isn't going to move big salary.

Capitlols is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:50 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.