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Acq/ Rost. Bldg./ Cap Part VII

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Old
02-19-2012, 03:06 AM
  #976
Halpysback
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He is the difference maker if we're expecting attrition. It's not about how good he is at what he does, it's about there being no one else capable of filling in that role. Marty Biron isn't a difference maker in a cup run, but if all the other goalies get broken and it's either him or a beer league player sitting outside your arena with a Will Goaltend For Food sign, you're gonna hang on to Marty Biron for dear life. Wideman is a less extreme example of that, but a valid one since what has been killing us in the playoffs more often than not is players of Wideman's skillset being lost to attrition. Last year that was the big hole Tampa carved into a sweep.

I'm fine with risking going into the playoffs with a rookie Orlov, Carlson and post op Mike Green if we can get an exceptional return for Wideman, but I don't see any team going insane over him.

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02-19-2012, 03:08 AM
  #977
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Minnesota is in free fall and from the looks of things about to sell Zidlicky, basically a poor man's Wideman, and Dallas just traded a pretty good defenseman because they have like 8 NHL defensemen already.

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02-19-2012, 08:39 AM
  #978
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what is all this love for marek zidlicky? i have been a zidlicky fan in the past, but doesnt 0 goals and 13 assists sound like over the hill for an offensive defenseman? the caps dont score much and how many caps defensemen have 0 goals? he is a poor man's dennis wideman if you would attach that same description to roman hamrlik.

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02-19-2012, 08:48 AM
  #979
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Zidlicky's done.

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Old
02-19-2012, 09:23 AM
  #980
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Originally Posted by Mystlyfe View Post
Zidlicky's done.
That's why Dennis Wideman may be a more attractive avenue for the Devils. I'd trade them Wideman for Defensive prospect Jon Merrill and the 2nd rounder we gave them last year in the Arnott trade.

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02-19-2012, 09:48 AM
  #981
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At this point it is more than apparent to pretty much everyone that we need a center, call it a 1c 2c or whatever you want, but hwo is realistically available? Plecanec would be perfect imo, but i seriously doubt MTL will let him out... Carter? i don't know about him just doesn't seem like he would be a good fit here... so who else?

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02-19-2012, 10:05 AM
  #982
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Get in there and sell! Sell!

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02-19-2012, 11:03 AM
  #983
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Thinking about attrition is the luxury of a team secure in their playoff positioning. That's not this team and probably won't be at any point this season, certainly not between now and the deadline. To even begin to have that mindset there needs to be some signs of even being able to go on a run in the regular season. I don't see them.

If Wideman isn't in their plans beyond this season then he should probably go at this point. I don't think the return would be tremendous due to lower demand for that type of player among playoff teams (or fringe teams) but it's something. Maybe that and other moves opens up the flexibility to do more in re-shaping the steaming pile that is their forwards. I think they have to go into the deadline thinking more long-term. Maybe not outright selling but with a mindset to do more than fine-tune what looks to be a pretty flawed team.

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02-19-2012, 11:17 AM
  #984
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Quote:
Originally Posted by txpd View Post
what is all this love for marek zidlicky? i have been a zidlicky fan in the past, but doesnt 0 goals and 13 assists sound like over the hill for an offensive defenseman? the caps dont score much and how many caps defensemen have 0 goals? he is a poor man's dennis wideman if you would attach that same description to roman hamrlik.
Could be a coaching issue

Not really an attractive quality to not be able to play for a coach, but there is precedent that things can turn around: Gaborik, Fedorov, Boyes, Jagr.

I'd still rather have Zidlicky for 1 year at $4 than Wideman for 5 and $25.

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02-19-2012, 12:38 PM
  #985
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That's why Dennis Wideman may be a more attractive avenue for the Devils. I'd trade them Wideman for Defensive prospect Jon Merrill and the 2nd rounder we gave them last year in the Arnott trade.
We don't need more young defenseman. We need a 2C and some young big forwards. Then a replacement for Wideman.

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02-19-2012, 12:41 PM
  #986
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Originally Posted by bonzaibondra12 View Post
We don't need more young defenseman. We need a 2C and some young big forwards. Then a replacement for Wideman.
This. As part of a package with maybe Ward, Wides could make a roster for roster trade work.

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02-19-2012, 01:53 PM
  #987
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Originally Posted by bonzaibondra12 View Post
We don't need more young defenseman. We need a 2C and some young big forwards. Then a replacement for Wideman.
You're not going to get a 2C before the TDL unless you part with draft picks to include first rounders. Bad idea.

To sign a 2C in the off season via free agency, you'll have to shed some existing salaries, i.e. Ward.

"We don't need young defenseman", I disagree. We need depth in this organization at the Hershey level so that quality rather than warm bodies are called upon when the need arises. Last year and this year we have used 10 d-men during the season. I would prefer an upgrade from the likes of Collins and Kundratek if at all possible. Besides competition for and at positions make players better.

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02-19-2012, 01:55 PM
  #988
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Originally Posted by Atlas View Post
If Wides doesn't get a 1st it's because good GMs see the holes in his game.

Maybe Van would want him as depth. Or Dallas or Minn? I'm only guessing. Dmen are a commodity this time of year.

Wides plays hard. I respect his attitude. I just don't like his lack of hockey sense. He tries to be a wild west gunslinger but he's too much like Barney Fife.
I'll play along.....if he gets more than a first, please tell us what the "good GMs" assessment is. I'm impressed you must be "in the game", because according to GMGM, that's the only qualification to be credible.

/end sarcasm


Doesn't matter, I doubt McPhee trades him. He would have to have a replacement coming in via trade....maybe only then.

Part of me hopes we can get Timonen if the Flyers move a body out. Wanted him when they originally signed him.

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02-19-2012, 01:57 PM
  #989
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Originally Posted by californiacapsfan View Post
This. As part of a package with maybe Ward, Wides could make a roster for roster trade work.
Sellers are interested in acquiring draft picks or prospects, not the likes of Ward and Wideman.

Whereas buyers that is those that are playoff bound are interested in adding missing pieces to their line up, so in no way will they be looking to move the likes of a 2C or a strong young forward that's currently in their line up.

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02-19-2012, 02:06 PM
  #990
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You're not going to get a 2C before the TDL unless you part with draft picks to include first rounders. Bad idea.

To sign a 2C in the off season via free agency, you'll have to shed some existing salaries, i.e. Ward.

"We don't need young defenseman", I disagree. We need depth in this organization at the Hershey level so that quality rather than warm bodies are called upon when the need arises. Last year and this year we have used 10 d-men during the season. I would prefer an upgrade from the likes of Collins and Kundratek if at all possible. Besides competition for and at positions make players better.
Young d-men are Orlov, Carlson, Alzner, Kundratek, and McNeill. Vet d-men are an over the hill Hamrlik and the guy you want to trade.
Young big fowards are..... can't name one, can you?

We need vet d-men and young, big fowards. All we have are skill guys with no grit. Our team is soft, missing a 2C, and experience on the back-end.

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02-19-2012, 02:28 PM
  #991
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Originally Posted by bonzaibondra12 View Post
Young d-men are Orlov, Carlson, Alzner, Kundratek, and McNeill. Vet d-men are an over the hill Hamrlik and the guy you want to trade.
Young big fowards are..... can't name one, can you?

We need vet d-men and young, big fowards. All we have are skill guys with no grit. Our team is soft, missing a 2C, and experience on the back-end.
I'm assuming we're both talking about 2012/13 season and not this current season. We don't know if the Caps will sign Wideman or if Wideman wants to resign with the Caps. Wideman's value has to be at its highest, so I believe a 2012 first rounder would be the expected return. You take such assets and package them for that vet d-man such as Tyutin. Additionally you want to rid yourselves of some weighty contracts such as Joel Ward. This will allow you to focus on two specific players who will be free agents which I think are the types you are talking about, i.e. Mikhail Grabovski - 2C and Jordin Tootoo your guy with grit.

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02-19-2012, 02:37 PM
  #992
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Originally Posted by txpd View Post
what is all this love for marek zidlicky? i have been a zidlicky fan in the past, but doesnt 0 goals and 13 assists sound like over the hill for an offensive defenseman? the caps dont score much and how many caps defensemen have 0 goals? he is a poor man's dennis wideman if you would attach that same description to roman hamrlik.
So... basically... the type of season Wideman was having with Florida until we acquired him

Wideman for a 1st and a 3rd with Zidlicky for a 3rd coming in the same day would be a pretty epic power play.

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02-19-2012, 02:41 PM
  #993
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You're not going to get a 2C before the TDL unless you part with draft picks to include first rounders. Bad idea.

To sign a 2C in the off season via free agency, you'll have to shed some existing salaries, i.e. Ward.

"We don't need young defenseman", I disagree. We need depth in this organization at the Hershey level so that quality rather than warm bodies are called upon when the need arises. Last year and this year we have used 10 d-men during the season. I would prefer an upgrade from the likes of Collins and Kundratek if at all possible. Besides competition for and at positions make players better.
I agree our cupboard could use some restocking, but mostly in terms of forwards, imo. We made two minor trades that actually managed to buoy our immediate stock of defensemen with NHL ability. Adding Kundratek and Marshall to the fold gives us two more 22 year-old blueliners for NHL depth. While we could use a little more than Orlov, Wey, Flemming, and Carrier in the ~18-20 age bracket, that can be addressed via the draft.

While we have plenty of forwards who can serve in the NHL in a pinch (Potulny, Hanson, Aucoin, etc), we could certainly use more than Eakin with NHL potential as a forward in Hershey. If we're bringing back prospects, I'd target forwards.

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02-19-2012, 03:15 PM
  #994
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I wouldn't touch Zidlicky with a 10 foot pole.

Roy would be a nice addition, but I think it would cost a 1st+, GMGM likes his 1sts.

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02-19-2012, 03:55 PM
  #995
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During the first period of the Florida game, Joe B mentioned that Vokoun had the opportunity to visit with his wife and kids who are still living there. Have to think that this will be part of the decision making process for Vokoun regarding whether to stay in D.C. next season or sign elsewhere. TB with it's goalie troubles might make it a logical fit for him.

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02-19-2012, 04:13 PM
  #996
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During the first period of the Florida game, Joe B mentioned that Vokoun had the opportunity to visit with his wife and kids who are still living there. Have to think that this will be part of the decision making process for Vokoun regarding whether to stay in D.C. next season or sign elsewhere. TB with it's goalie troubles might make it a logical fit for him.
If he takes longer than a one year deal, you'd think he'd be willing to move his family. Doesn't make much sense to relocate everyone if you're only playing somewhere for one year, though.

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02-19-2012, 04:15 PM
  #997
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If he takes longer than a one year deal, you'd think he'd be willing to move his family. Doesn't make much sense to relocate everyone if you're only playing somewhere for one year, though.
Or he could be like Saleis family, Salei hadn't played for Anaheim since 04 and his family was still there even with him in the KHL.

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02-19-2012, 04:48 PM
  #998
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How would you guys feel about trading Wideman, Neuvirth and Ward to Vancouver for Schneider, Raymond and Ballard.

They key is getting Schneider and role with him and Holtby next year. Both Schneider and Raymond are RFA's at the end of the season. Raymond is slumping but is a top-6 when he's on his game. Ballard is overpaid for what he brings and is locked up for 3 more years. Getting rid of him might be enticing for Vancouver. He could in the right environment be a decent top-4 d-man.

Vancouver get their Ehrhoff in Wideman, have a chance to resign him if they'd like. Neuvirth will be a cheaper back-up to Luongo than Schneider, but still reliable enough. Ward fills the spot left by Raymond on the 3rd line and brings a more physical presence than Raymond which is needed for them to go deep.

The trade is basically capneutral with the 'nucks getting a few 100k's more salary back.

Do you think it's a fair trade for both teams?


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02-19-2012, 04:57 PM
  #999
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Don't really see the upside in it for Washington. I want Ballard's contract less than Ward's. We could get returns for Wideman that much better fit our needs than Schneider. Raymond would inject some much needed speed into this line-up, but how much stock do we want to place in his single 20+ goal season? He vanishes in the playoffs, as well.

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02-19-2012, 05:09 PM
  #1000
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How would you guys feel about trading Wideman, Neuvirth and Ward to Vancouver for Schneider, Raymond and Ballard.

They key is getting Schneider and role with him and Holtby next year. Both Schneider and Raymond are RFA's at the end of the season. Raymond is slumping but is a top-6 when he's on his game. Ballard is overpaid for what he brings and is locked up for 3 more years. Getting rid of him might be enticing for Vancouver. He could in the right environment be a decent top-4 d-man.

Vancouver get their Ehrhoff in Wideman, have a chance to resign him if they'd like. Neuvirth will be a cheaper back-up to Luongo than Schneider, but still reliable enough. Ward fills the spot left by Raymond on the 3rd line and brings a more physical presence than Raymond which is needed for them to go deep.

The trade is basically capneutral with the 'nucks getting a few 100k's more salary back.

Do you think it's a fair trade for both teams?
I don't know about the cap room but if that was ever offered, Id take it and run

Anything to get rid of Ward. Cory is a great upgrade too

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