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Jets trade Riley Holzapfel to Anaheim for Maxime Macenauer

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Old
02-14-2012, 01:31 PM
  #101
WJG
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The only thing that I could see potentially handcuffing what Chevy can do in general is Heisinger's influence.

Both were GM's in the AHL, but Zinger seems like much more a fan of giving AHLers a shot in the NHL (even at the expense of prospects). Flood was an unexpected surprise, but Jaffray and Gagnon had no business being here ahead of the likes of Klingberg, Cormier, Machacek, Maxwell, etc.

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02-14-2012, 01:53 PM
  #102
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I never claimed that Atlanta fans don't know what they're talking about and if that's how my post came across, my apologies. All I'm saying is that if you're defending the work of Rick Dudley and using it to support a theory that implies Chevy is doing a poor job ... well then ... that's just not a very good idea.

Dudley accomplished nothing. Our prospect cupboard is empty and our playoff aspirations are low. Really begs the question, what the hell was he doing for such a long time?

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02-14-2012, 01:56 PM
  #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jet Bomber View Post
I never claimed that Atlanta fans don't know what they're talking about and if that's how my post came across, my apologies. All I'm saying is that if you're defending the work of Rick Dudley and using it to support a theory that implies Chevy is doing a poor job ... well then ... that's just not a very good idea.

Dudley accomplished nothing. Our prospect cupboard is empty and our playoff aspirations are low. Really begs the question, what the hell was he doing for such a long time?
To be fair (somewhat), Dudley was only the GM last season, until then, it was Waddell who was helping (with ownership) drive this franchise further into the ground.

But, your point still stands, Atlanta/Dudley/Waddell as a whole were truly incompetent and disappointing over their 12 year tenure.

Of course we all have opinions on what should or could be done, but the truth is, is Winnipeg got Atlanta, a team with little talent, young promising pieces, no legitimate prospects in the system, a very empty prospect pool and an organization who made the playoffs ONCE in 12 years. To build this organization correctly headed forward, from what was a giant mess, is going to take some time and patience.

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Last edited by Guerzy: 02-14-2012 at 02:10 PM.
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02-14-2012, 02:00 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Denny 204 View Post
Chevy had me scratching my head with his draft choice and obviously his big signing of Eric Fehr didn't pan out so I am having my doubts on what he can do.

I'd like to see something done. He neither increased our prospect pool or our current roster yet.

I just hope TNSE isn't holding him back by not allowing him to spend any money. We are in the top 10 in revenue, I think we earned a goodt team in the next few years.
Yeah, you lost me here.

He traded for Fehr.

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02-14-2012, 02:04 PM
  #105
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Looks like Antro has been rewarded for his not so stellar play of late and will now play on the fourth line. His last game against the Pens was no doubt his worst in a Jets uniform. Can't for the life of me understand what anyone sees in him, his defensive play is okay but aside from that?? The guy clearly is too slow to play in today's NHL.

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02-14-2012, 02:05 PM
  #106
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The Fehr trade at the time was a pretty good one too.

He acquired a 25 year old 20+ goal scorer who was also a hometowner for an ECHL prospect and a 4th rounder.

No one could have predicted that Fehr would play this poorly once he returned.

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02-14-2012, 02:09 PM
  #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jet Bomber View Post
I never claimed that Atlanta fans don't know what they're talking about and if that's how my post came across, my apologies. All I'm saying is that if you're defending the work of Rick Dudley and using it to support a theory that implies Chevy is doing a poor job ... well then ... that's just not a very good idea.

Dudley accomplished nothing. Our prospect cupboard is empty and our playoff aspirations are low. Really begs the question, what the hell was he doing for such a long time?
You obviously have no idea.

In Dudley's one season in charge in Atlanta he acquired:
Ladd, Wheeler, Byfuglien, Stuart whom are still with the team as well as Brent Sopel, Ben Eager who both played a role before turning those impending UFA into Ben Maxwell and draft picks.

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02-14-2012, 02:15 PM
  #108
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Dudley and Chevy, while both very good GM's IMO, have two totally different schools of thought as far as being general managers.

Dudley made a lot of trades in a short time that pointed the organization in the right direction, while Chevy is preaching patience to allow players to develop from within.

I'd say Dudley is more like Paul Holmgren while Chevy seems more like David Poile. One makes at least one huge move every year while keeping his team competitive, while the other rarely makes big moves (except for Forsberg) but has also kept his team competitive over the years.

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02-14-2012, 02:21 PM
  #109
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Good example, WJG.

I just personally want to see what Cheveldayoff can do over a larger amount of time. I think it's too soon to say he's like this guy, or that guy, or not good enough, not active enough, etc. I really think to be fair Cheveldayoff should get some time here. Some seem to have his head on a platter at this point in time because he hasn't made a move or two or three, it's just illogical in my opinion. Of course, if you're aware of what is going on with this organization, you'd know why we have yet to see too many roster moves.

While Dudley was only in his GM role for a year (last season), he was also more familiar with the franchise and it's direction at that current time, where as we are now taking this franchise is a completely new direction. So, even to compare Dudley as GM for one year to Cheveldayoff as GM for one year, is quite unfair. Two completely different blueprints.

In time we will know what Cheveldayoff is made of. I say 2 years from now, we will have a pretty decent idea of Cheveldayoff's motives and tendencies, that will be his 3rd season on the job. This year is a learning curve, an observation period, next year I feel we'll see some moves and see Cheveldayoff and co. put their fingerprints on things, even just slightly, and the year after, I feel we'll have a very good idea where we are going and what Cheveldayoff is all about.


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02-14-2012, 02:31 PM
  #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WJG View Post
The only thing that I could see potentially handcuffing what Chevy can do in general is Heisinger's influence.

Both were GM's in the AHL, but Zinger seems like much more a fan of giving AHLers a shot in the NHL (even at the expense of prospects). Flood was an unexpected surprise, but Jaffray and Gagnon had no business being here ahead of the likes of Klingberg, Cormier, Machacek, Maxwell, etc.
Ok most people on this board are getting on their high horse saying they are not worried that Chevy hasnt made a trade that will help the NHL team because they 'want to build through the draft' or now is not the time to make a rash decision.

Why does most people think that if my suggestion that Chevy should be more active in improving the NHL team is going to lead to 'rash decisions'. Even if Chevy can't get a suitable deal done, what is stopping him using players from the AHL team like the post above suggested to replace the underperforming players like Fehr and Miettinen.

Waive Fehr and Miettinen and give Klingberg and Machacek their spot for the rest of the season.
Their is no harm in that sort of move and he will find out more about which AHL players are keepers and which should be moved on at the end of the season.

Machacek is a perfect player for this project. He has been in AHL for four season and done pretty well at that level but he hasn't really had a legit shot in the NHL, only an injury call up now and again.
With Fehr stinking it up with the Jets, give Machacek a chance to do a better job than Fehr. What is stopping Chevy making that type of move?

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02-14-2012, 02:38 PM
  #111
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I'm willing to give Fehr a pass this year because coming back from an injury after missing a whole year is a big adjustment. It usually takes the player until the following season to get back form.

Miettinen though I agree. I just hate him lol.

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02-14-2012, 02:43 PM
  #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evan View Post
Waive Fehr and Miettinen and give Klingberg and Machacek their spot for the rest of the season.
Their is no harm in that sort of move and he will find out more about which AHL players are keepers and which should be moved on at the end of the season.
Mittens has a NMC. And waiving Fehr would be pointless, he's a RFA at the end of this season. We don't need to waive these guys in order to give trial runs to Klingberg and Machacek. Fehr isn't even dressing for this upcoming game.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Evan View Post
Why does most people think that if my suggestion that Chevy should be more active in improving the NHL team is going to lead to 'rash decisions'. Even if Chevy can't get a suitable deal done, what is stopping him using players from the AHL team like the post above suggested to replace the underperforming players like Fehr and Miettinen.
Given that it was in the context of slagging Chevy for making another minor deal, I don't think that's an illogical conclusion.


Last edited by Hank Chinaski: 02-14-2012 at 02:52 PM.
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02-14-2012, 02:45 PM
  #113
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Don't anyone say Chevy hasn't been making moves.

Start planning the parade.

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02-14-2012, 02:46 PM
  #114
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If memory (and my understanding) serves correctly, Meittenen has a full NMC which i believe means he can't even be waived (i could be totally out to lunch on this, this is just my understanding of it). As for Fehr, i'm in the "give him a chance" column as from what I've heard management was aware that they weren't likely to get a 100% Eric Fehr until next year (due to his surgery).

As for Mittens, I kinda like him, I thought he and Burmi worked well and created a lot of chances the last few games and just haven't been able to bury one.

i also love having a player on the team with the nickname of Mittens.

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02-14-2012, 02:47 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by Evan View Post
Ok most people on this board are getting on their high horse saying they are not worried that Chevy hasnt made a trade that will help the NHL team because they 'want to build through the draft' or now is not the time to make a rash decision.

Why does most people think that if my suggestion that Chevy should be more active in improving the NHL team is going to lead to 'rash decisions'. Even if Chevy can't get a suitable deal done, what is stopping him using players from the AHL team like the post above suggested to replace the underperforming players like Fehr and Miettinen.

Waive Fehr and Miettinen and give Klingberg and Machacek their spot for the rest of the season.
Their is no harm in that sort of move and he will find out more about which AHL players are keepers and which should be moved on at the end of the season.

Machacek is a perfect player for this project. He has been in AHL for four season and done pretty well at that level but he hasn't really had a legit shot in the NHL, only an injury call up now and again.
With Fehr stinking it up with the Jets, give Machacek a chance to do a better job than Fehr. What is stopping Chevy making that type of move?
I don't think we can waive Mittens (could be wrong though).

I also wouldn't mind bringing up Machacek and sitting Fehr. Machacek showed more effort in the Habs game then Fehr did most of the year.

There is a possibility that they want to see all of the guys you mentioned up in the NHL at some point, but maybe they have decided that more minutes a night in St. John's is better for these guys than less minutes in Winnipeg at this stage of their careers.

That's one possibility.

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02-14-2012, 03:07 PM
  #116
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I think saying Dudley didn't do anything is pretty unfair.

Most of the Thrashers franchise's failure can be attributed to ASG, Don Waddell and previous management.

Dudley had the right idea and was going in the right direction, he just never had a chance to begin with because he wasn't playing with a full deck.

ASG wanted the team gone before they even hired him. Dudley never had a chance. Really it was very unfair of them to even hire the guy.

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02-14-2012, 03:09 PM
  #117
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I have been following along this thread for a bit- lets put things in perspective - we have a rookie GM from the AHL and a team with very little depth to deal with. As much as I wish we would or could pull the trigger on a top line forward - in reality - we would need to give up alot to have this happen, is it possible sure- is it likely not even close. I wasn't a fan of the picks for GM and Coach this year but I am willing to wait (this year) to see what direction this team takes.

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02-14-2012, 03:25 PM
  #118
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Something I'd like to add is that it is also a pretty green staff nhl wise and I rather a slow steady aproach then have them rush into decisions that will hurt us in the future.

This team ain't a contender in the short term no need to rush.

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02-14-2012, 03:32 PM
  #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jet Bomber View Post
I never claimed that Atlanta fans don't know what they're talking about and if that's how my post came across, my apologies. All I'm saying is that if you're defending the work of Rick Dudley and using it to support a theory that implies Chevy is doing a poor job ... well then ... that's just not a very good idea.

Dudley accomplished nothing. Our prospect cupboard is empty and our playoff aspirations are low. Really begs the question, what the hell was he doing for such a long time?
Dudley accomplished A LOT in his short time with the franchise. He acquired the captain, two of the team's top scorers, drafted Burmistrov, etc. The only player of any actual substance that he gave up was Rich Peverley, who is now a third liner. With Dudley at the helm, we would have made trades and signings with actual significance, and this team would likely be a playoff team, as we'd also have a more competent coach than Noel.

Don't discredit Dudley. He did a fantastic job.

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02-14-2012, 03:33 PM
  #120
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I don't think we can waive Mittens (could be wrong though).
You are 100% correct per capgeek.com-->Winnipeg Jets-->Antti Miettinen

Antti will be a Jet next year but iirc another poster on here once mentioned that were was a loophole that can be easily used to renege on the NMC clause. I don't know the details just recalling...

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02-14-2012, 03:57 PM
  #121
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Teams can get out of NMC with the players consent. If Chevy approached Miettinen and said that things haven't worked out thus far and we would like to trade you or sit you for the rest of the season.

I'm pretty sure in that situation, Miettinen would be open for trade as he would rather be playing.
Tampa Bay could be still interested in his services for a swap of low draft picks.

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02-14-2012, 04:07 PM
  #122
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Dudley accomplished A LOT in his short time with the franchise. He acquired the captain, two of the team's top scorers, drafted Burmistrov, etc. The only player of any actual substance that he gave up was Rich Peverley, who is now a third liner. With Dudley at the helm, we would have made trades and signings with actual significance, and this team would likely be a playoff team, as we'd also have a more competent coach than Noel.

Don't discredit Dudley. He did a fantastic job.
But lets just deal with the here and now shall we- here- rookie GM / rookie head coach- new ownership- new direction. I wish this team could, maybe should take a stab at something but these guys need to learn to walk before they run, sucks I know. That is the reality this team faces- changes will happen but in due course and I regret to say that this year is not the year these guys pull the trigger. Of course I have been wrong before

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02-14-2012, 04:48 PM
  #123
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Originally Posted by Canadian North View Post
Dudley accomplished A LOT in his short time with the franchise. He acquired the captain, two of the team's top scorers, drafted Burmistrov, etc. The only player of any actual substance that he gave up was Rich Peverley, who is now a third liner. With Dudley at the helm, we would have made trades and signings with actual significance, and this team would likely be a playoff team, as we'd also have a more competent coach than Noel.

Don't discredit Dudley. He did a fantastic job.
I agree and disagree with your statements

I agree that Dudley did accomplish a lot, and i firmly believe that we've benefited from the moves he made in his one year as GM.

I disagree that anyone, anywhere, has any ground to pronounce what Dudley "would have done". And to say he would have made trades and signings with significance? Really? If you look at the transaction history of this season, i think you'll find the lack of trades in Winnipeg is systemic across the league (we have had what, 2-3 trades in the entire season that have actually included top 6 players?). Many GM's are on record stating there's nothing going on, because no ones counting themselves out.

Dudley did good work, 100% agree.
Dudley would have made this team a playoff lock this year, 100% disagree

Neither you nor I nor anyone else can even pretend to know what would have happened if he was still involved.

and just so you know, I was against the Dudley firing as i regard him as pretty decent builder.


Last edited by Grind: 02-14-2012 at 04:49 PM. Reason: edit for spelling/grammer
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02-14-2012, 05:03 PM
  #124
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Originally Posted by WJG View Post
The only thing that I could see potentially handcuffing what Chevy can do in general is Heisinger's influence.

Both were GM's in the AHL, but Zinger seems like much more a fan of giving AHLers a shot in the NHL (even at the expense of prospects). Flood was an unexpected surprise, but Jaffray and Gagnon had no business being here ahead of the likes of Klingberg, Cormier, Machacek, Maxwell, etc.
I don't really think for a second that Craig Heisinger is handcuffing Chevy. To me having some of these servicable guys fill in injury slots are not going to make or break our team - in fact it gives the latter guys you mention a chance to hone their game on top lines and top minutes in the AHL.

Said another way, playing Jaffray or Gagnon at bottom six minutes is less determental to the oragnization as a whole than having Carl Klingberg up here doing the same thing.

And by the way, right now, those guys are just "AHLers" as well until they prove they can light that loop up, or win a spot at camp

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02-14-2012, 06:21 PM
  #125
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One thing I would add to this conversation, is that Winnipeg jet fans are going to give True North a free pass on who they decided to put in charge last summer. They just spent $ 170 Million to bring back the Jets. No one I know of wouldn't give them the right to put whoever they want in charge. This decision belonged to them and them alone. They want their own people in place, that is their choice. Saying what "I think" Dudley would do is pretty much irrelevant.

Believe me Chevy and Noel don't get free passes forever, but for now I think most fans will be patient and let them do their jobs.

A job done right is better than a quick fix.

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