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L. Schenn for Stastny

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Old
02-13-2012, 01:28 PM
  #26
AMDZen
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90+% of Avs fans say no
90+% of Leaf fans say yes

That tells you all you need to know.

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Old
02-13-2012, 02:12 PM
  #27
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No thanks. Not moving a 1b centre for a #4 defenceman and a complete cap dump in Connolly.

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02-13-2012, 02:22 PM
  #28
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If the Avalanche didn't trade him when he wasn't performing they sure aren't going to now that he is.

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Old
02-13-2012, 02:23 PM
  #29
Chris G
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Leaf proposals

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Old
02-13-2012, 02:25 PM
  #30
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Ummm... wait, so Avs are taking an additional salary dump? Not just no, but hell no.

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02-13-2012, 02:26 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 View Post
We have two needs, you didn't address either of them.

Top 6 scoring wingers, 1st round draft picks.

Try again.
Kessel and Lupul could benefit from a playmaking type center on the first line. Based on what Colorado is looking for, the Leafs could consider this type of deal.



Paul Stastny (C)
36 points - $6.6 million (3 years)



1st Round Pick (2012)
Clarke MacArthur (LW)
30 Points - $3.25 million (2 years)
Colby Armstrong (RW)
1 point - $3.0 million (2 years) - Salary dump
Matt Frattin (RW)
10 points - $1.3 million (RFA)

This can be a fair trade for both teams, as the Avalanche will still have Duchene and O'Reilly down the middle, with an upgrade to the wings. Matt Frattin is a good up and coming winger that Colorado can re-sign cheap. The Leafs will have their number one center, and can replace MacArthur with Kadri, Mueller, Colborne, or any of the young guys looking to make the big team. Like most teams, you have to give to get, and this would upgrade both teams.

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Old
02-13-2012, 02:40 PM
  #32
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Stastny is a solid top line center if you have a legit top line winger to play with him to give him that little bit of room to operate. id call him a 1b with 1a potential.

Schenn could be a real nice top 2 shut down guy to pair with a offensive d man. he is currently a 3/4 guy imo but lets be fair hes 22 and the leafs front line the last couple years and goaltending hasnt been super either. So hes got alot of ice time for a 22 year old to build on. Dmen usualy take longer.

Connoly is to keep the avs above the floor and is a decent passing center and one more year of 4.5 isnt that big a deal.

Not a fan of either team but a decent proposal.

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Old
02-13-2012, 03:02 PM
  #33
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Just to clear this up. Avs would have to get a cap hit of $1M coming the other way if they were to trade Stastny at deadline. There would be no need for contracts of the Connolly/Armstrong kind.

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Old
02-13-2012, 03:04 PM
  #34
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It seems to me that the Avs are a better team now and in the future if they keep Stastny rather than make one of the trades with the Leafs proposed in this thread.

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Old
02-13-2012, 03:05 PM
  #35
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I don't know how many times Leafs have to say Schenn isn't going anywhere. They just signed him to a big contract, they realise he is young and still developing and Burke has come out and said he isn't trading him.

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02-13-2012, 03:29 PM
  #36
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So Stasney is a guy who just turned 26 a month ago, has 3 seasons where he put up 70+ points and almost tagged 80 in two of those, is only signed for 6.6mil and can play a two way game if he needs to.

Leaf fans think a second pair defensive defenseman and a cap dump is overpaying. Nobody sees a leaf trade and opens the thread expecting to take it seriously for this reason.

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Old
02-13-2012, 04:11 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1927 View Post
Kessel and Lupul could benefit from a playmaking type center on the first line. Based on what Colorado is looking for, the Leafs could consider this type of deal.



Paul Stastny (C)
36 points - $6.6 million (3 years)



1st Round Pick (2012)
Clarke MacArthur (LW)
30 Points - $3.25 million (2 years)
Colby Armstrong (RW)
1 point - $3.0 million (2 years) - Salary dump
Matt Frattin (RW)
10 points - $1.3 million (RFA)

This can be a fair trade for both teams, as the Avalanche will still have Duchene and O'Reilly down the middle, with an upgrade to the wings. Matt Frattin is a good up and coming winger that Colorado can re-sign cheap. The Leafs will have their number one center, and can replace MacArthur with Kadri, Mueller, Colborne, or any of the young guys looking to make the big team. Like most teams, you have to give to get, and this would upgrade both teams.
In my opinion this is a worse trade for Colorado then the original trade. Colorado is not looking to start the rebuild all over again. If Stastny is traded there is going to be a better calibre of player involved then what is in this proposal.

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Old
02-13-2012, 04:12 PM
  #38
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That would be a terrible deal for the Avs.

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Old
02-13-2012, 04:21 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1927 View Post


Paul Stastny (C)
36 points - $6.6 million (3 years)



1st Round Pick (2012)
Clarke MacArthur (LW)
30 Points - $3.25 million (2 years)
Colby Armstrong (RW)
1 point - $3.0 million (2 years) - Salary dump
Matt Frattin (RW)
10 points - $1.3 million (RFA)
The thing is, MacArthur really isn't much of an upgrade in our top 6 at the expense of Stastny. If we're not getting Lupul from Toronto (despite the fact I don't want him personally) then I find it hard to agree on the value of a deal.

Perhaps something closer to 1st + Colborne + MacArthur... it would hypothetically solve the Avs needs despite losing their #1 center. But I think we're heading in a Pittsburgh direction, keeping our solid 3-deep centers and having McClement as a Talbot-type to anchor the 4th line and move up when needed.

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Old
02-13-2012, 04:28 PM
  #40
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I'd want Gunnarsson and Kadri/Colborne for Stastny.

But at above a point per game with Lupul, is there any reason to mess with Kessel's line? Or has their play declined?

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Old
02-13-2012, 06:06 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CB Joe View Post
In my opinion this is a worse trade for Colorado then the original trade. Colorado is not looking to start the rebuild all over again. If Stastny is traded there is going to be a better calibre of player involved then what is in this proposal.
The proposal covered a top six winger in the package, this is not a rebuild proposal. The Avs get a good young NHL ready prospect in Frattin as well, so it would help right now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 View Post
The thing is, MacArthur really isn't much of an upgrade in our top 6 at the expense of Stastny. If we're not getting Lupul from Toronto (despite the fact I don't want him personally) then I find it hard to agree on the value of a deal.

Perhaps something closer to 1st + Colborne + MacArthur... it would hypothetically solve the Avs needs despite losing their #1 center. But I think we're heading in a Pittsburgh direction, keeping our solid 3-deep centers and having McClement as a Talbot-type to anchor the 4th line and move up when needed.
The offer you proposed is fair on 1st, Colborne, and MacArthur. The Leafs are high on Colborne, but as stated earlier teams have to give to get an upgrade on a player, so this proposal would seem fair. Not sure if Burke would do the trade, but anything is possible.

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Old
02-13-2012, 07:17 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1927 View Post
Kessel and Lupul could benefit from a playmaking type center on the first line. Based on what Colorado is looking for, the Leafs could consider this type of deal.



Paul Stastny (C)
36 points - $6.6 million (3 years



1st Round Pick (2012)
Clarke MacArthur (LW)
30 Points - $3.25 million (2 years)
Colby Armstrong (RW)
1 point - $3.0 million (2 years) - Salary dump
Matt Frattin (RW)

10 points - $1.3 million (RFA)

This can be a fair trade for both teams, as the Avalanche will still have Duchene and O'Reilly down
the middle, with an upgrade to the wings. Matt Frattin is a good up and coming winger that Colorado can re-sign cheap. The Leafs will have their number one center, and can replace MacArthur with Kadri,
Mueller, Colborne, or any of the young guys looking to make the big team. Like most teams, you have to give to get, and this would upgrade both teams.
That's possibly worse than the OP. By "scoring wingers" I don't think anybody meant Mac. Armstrong has 0 value, so sadly the mist enticing piece there is Frattin. Live how you didn't even add the first that was asked for. Honestly, these teams don't make good trade partners. Obviously Lupul and Kessel are going nowhere, but we'd want wingers significantly better than Mac/Kulmein.

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Old
02-13-2012, 07:56 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 View Post
We have two needs, you didn't address either of them.

Top 6 scoring wingers, 1st round draft picks.

Try again.
if stastny was truly available, i think the isles would be fools to not get involved. you mentioned wingers...any interest in grabner or okposo?

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Old
02-13-2012, 08:01 PM
  #44
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Avs fans seem to be overrating Stastny's value just a tad. 57 points last year, on pace for a similar amount this year. Why does Stastny get the pass for an 'off-year' for 1 and a half seasons and Schenn doesn't?

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02-13-2012, 08:06 PM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MastuhNinks View Post
Avs fans seem to be overrating Stastny's value just a tad. 57 points last year, on pace for a similar amount this year. Why does Stastny get the pass for an 'off-year' for 1 and a half seasons and Schenn doesn't?
Because Avs fans know more about Stastny than just the stats. If you'd actually watch him play you'd quickly realize he's a ton better than 57 points. He's been playing with AHLers for over a year. Kobasew/Porter/Winnik have no place in the top 6. At all. But that what's Stastny has been playing with. He now has 16 points in his last 16 games since Mueller returned, and Hedjuk was bumped to his line, along with Jones.

Your argument that if Schenn isn't getting a free pass then why should Stastny is also flawed. Stastny has proven he can score 80 points before with good wingers. What has Schenn ever proven? He can be near the top of the leauge in turnovers?

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Old
02-13-2012, 08:07 PM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by islandermaniac View Post
if stastny was truly available, i think the isles would be fools to not get involved. you mentioned wingers...any interest in grabner or okposo?
Could you guys afford him...?

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Old
02-13-2012, 08:08 PM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Avs44 View Post
Because Avs fans know more about Stastny than just the stats. If you'd actually watch him play you'd quickly realize he's a ton better than 57 points. He's been playing with AHLers for over a year. Kobasew/Porter/Winnik have no place in the top 6. At all. But that what's Stastny has been playing with. He now has 16 points in his last 16 games since Mueller returned, and Hedjuk was bumped to his line, along with Jones.

Your argument that if Schenn isn't getting a free pass then why should Stastny is also flawed. Stastny has proven he can score 80 points before with good wingers. What has Schenn ever proven? He can be near the top of the leauge in turnovers?
So basically you're insinuating using turnovers to evaluate defensemen is more valid than using points to evaluate a playmaking forward?

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Old
02-13-2012, 08:11 PM
  #48
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The funny thing is -- too many posters here are too blinded by hate/love affairs with certain to realize that a deal between Colorado and Toronto where Stastny & Connolly trade places actually makes a ton of sense.

Avs have been fans saying one of the reasons they need Stastny is to stay above the cap floor. Under that criteria, Connolly arguably does a better job of that with his $4.75m cap hit, but salary of only $4m. Furthermore, as much as Avs fans will defend Stastny, there's simply no way it makes sense to pay $6.6m to a 60-70 point centre when you've got both Matty Duchene and Ryan O'Reilly coming up for new contracts next year.

However, they're also not exactly at a point where they can just move Stastny without bringing in a veteran centre to take some pressure off of Duchene/O'Reilly -- again, here comes Tim Connolly for one year at $4m.

That being said, Luke Schenn is obviously not the right piece to be included. As Avs fans mentioned, they've got 8 defencemen already. They need to score more goals....

But, what could make sense, is a deal that sees Connolly, Kulemin or MacArthur, Frattin and a draft pick go for Stasnty and a guy like David Jones (who apparently the Avs don't intend to resign). Leafs get the centre they need and a rental winger to replace MacArthur, Colorado picks up a proven 20 goal guy for a reasonable $3.25m cost in MacArthur, a scoring winger who could step into the lineup right away in Frattin, and sheds $2.6m from the centre position.

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02-13-2012, 08:11 PM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MastuhNinks View Post
Avs fans seem to be overrating Stastny's value just a tad. 57 points last year, on pace for a similar amount this year. Why does Stastny get the pass for an 'off-year' for 1 and a half seasons and Schenn doesn't?

Care to mention the circumstances?
Avs dropped from 1 st in their division at the beginning of December to 2nd last. They were injured and they sucked brutally.
It was not only Stastny who had a decrease in production.
This year he started off with Kobasew and Lindstrom on his wings.
After Lindstrom was waived Winnik, Porter and Yip could be admired there.
Since Mueller is back he is back to close to PPG.
He is a great playmaker who is good defensively.
Avs do not really want to trade him. We know as well that he would go back to 80+ point form if paired with Kessel. Thats exactly why the leafs will not get him for your spare pieces. Even if we were to trade him, Toronto does not fill our needs at all. We need a topline winger for him. Your own board is not very appreciative of Schenn right now. He is a defensive dman with close to no offense who is struggling defensively.
If you are not prepared to give up Schenn, Kadri and your 1st, Sherman has to hang up the phone if he does not want to alienate the fanbase any further.




@ Seanlinden: just stop it.
Ugh. Worst trade i have seen from a leaf fan in a long time. Your argument makes no sense at all. If Avs want to get rid of Stastnys salary at the deadline, they can. They would only have to take close to 1M back to stay over the floor.
No need to take your capdump. Why the hell do you have us add David Jones?
Because a cap dump in Connolly , 2 struggling guys who are not even close to Pauls value and do next to nothing for us and a guy who will turn out to be a decent 3rd liner at best are overpayment for the top line centerman you are obviously trying to acquire? If you want to fill one of the most important spots in hockey ( 1st line center), you better cough up something you dont want to give up.


Last edited by JoemAvs: 02-13-2012 at 08:33 PM.
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Old
02-13-2012, 08:12 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by MastuhNinks View Post
So basically you're insinuating using turnovers to evaluate defensemen is more valid than using points to evaluate a playmaking forward?
No. Read again. You were insinuating that Schenn had actually proven something. What had he proven? Stastny's has proven he can score 80 points, Schenn has proven...?

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