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L. Schenn for Stastny

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Old
02-13-2012, 08:14 PM
  #51
Crisp Breakout
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MastuhNinks View Post
So basically you're insinuating using turnovers to evaluate defensemen is more valid than using points to evaluate a playmaking forward?
He's 'insinuating' that Stastny has proven that he can score ~80 points. At around 0.90 PPG career his year long slump (Jan '11 - Jan '12) looks like it's over. On the other hand, Schenn is running on pure potential alone.

If what you wrote is really what you got out of his post that's just sad.

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02-13-2012, 08:19 PM
  #52
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I can't tell you how many times this year Stastny has had a perfect pass only to be absorbed into the blackhole that is Chuck Kobasew/Kevin Porter/Brandon Yip's stick...
With top 6 wingers instead of borderline NHLers, Stastny could easily add 15ish assists to this season's totals and that's a safe estimate. It would probably be more.

He'll finish in his usual ~20 goal range but playmakers need real players to play with. He makes the play he doesn't capitalize on it.
After Mueller got back he finally got real linemates in Hejduk and Mueller and he has like, 14 points in 15 games.

We'll keep him

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02-13-2012, 08:19 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by seanlinden View Post
The funny thing is -- too many posters here are too blinded by hate/love affairs with certain to realize that a deal between Colorado and Toronto where Stastny & Connolly trade places actually makes a ton of sense.

Avs have been fans saying one of the reasons they need Stastny is
to stay above the cap floor. Under that criteria, Connolly arguably does a better job of that with his $4.75m cap hit, but salary of only $4m. Furthermore, as much as Avs fans will defend Stastny,
there's simply no way it makes sense to pay $6.6m to a 60-70 point centre when you've got both Matty Duchene and Ryan O'Reilly coming up for new contracts next year.



However, they're also not exactly at a point where they can just move Stastny without bringing in a
veteran centre to take some pressure off of Duchene/O'Reilly -- again, here comes Tim Connolly for one year at $4m.

That being said, Luke Schenn is
obviously not the right piece to be included. As Avs fans mentioned, they've got 8 defencemen already. They need to score more goals....


But, what could make sense, is a deal that sees Connolly, Kulemin or MacArthur, Frattin and a draft
pick go for Stasnty and a guy like David Jones (who apparently the Avs don't intend to resign). Leafs get the centre they need and a rental winger to replace MacArthur,
Colorado picks up a proven 20 goal guy for a reasonable $3.25m cost in MacArthur, a scoring winger who could step into the lineup right away in Frattin, and sheds $2.6m from the centre
position.
Oh look, another fan here to convince us that we can't afford to keep Stastny's contract. How many times do we have to say it does not bother us before anyone will get it?


As for Connolly, nice job trying to sell him as a veteran presence that we could use. Go read the Leafs GDT. There you'll see how good he actually is. Honestly, in that 5-0 loss to Montreal... Probably the most swear words I've ever seen directed to one player.

Bottom line: We'll happily pay Stastny 6.6 for what he provides. We do NOT want Connolly. Don't even try to argue that. You'll never convince us to take him. Unless we get an offer that includes a top line winger coming back for our top line center, then he's going nowhere. Don't come back and try and argue over his contract. Were not bothered by it so we don't care what anyone else thinks.

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Old
02-13-2012, 08:21 PM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crisp Breakout View Post
He's 'insinuating' that Stastny has proven that he can score ~80 points. At around 0.90 PPG career his year long slump (Jan '11 - Jan '12) looks like it's over. On the other hand, Schenn is running on pure potential alone.

If what you wrote is really what you
got out of his post that's just sad.
Thank you. That's exactly what I meant. Love how people scan your post, then claim you just says something they just made up.

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02-13-2012, 08:26 PM
  #55
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I guess Colorado should extend a helping hand and take Phaneuf off Toronto's hands for Quincey + Hejda + 3rd

Seems about fair value.

What, it doesn't address your team needs? Oh, well how about we add Kevin Porter you shore up your center position then...


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02-13-2012, 08:28 PM
  #56
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Frattin is gonna be awesome one day so much potential and heart. Schenn not sure about think he needs a small market team to succeed, no idea why he has issues reading plays

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02-13-2012, 08:35 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Avs44 View Post
Could you guys afford him...?
i think so. rolston is done with the isles and he is making 5 million this year. that almost makes up the difference there. in my opinion, it's a no brainer to try to bring in a guy who is young enough, at 26, to be a part of the rebuild on the island.

so, again, it sounds like the avs need wingers and luke schenn ain't one of those. in my opinion, despite being given team friendly long term contracts, okposo and/or grabner can easily be moved.

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02-13-2012, 08:43 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Avs44 View Post
Oh look, another fan here to convince us that we can't afford to keep Stastny's contract. How many times do we have to say it does not bother us before anyone will get it?


As for Connolly, nice job trying to sell him as a veteran presence that we could use. Go read the Leafs GDT. There you'll see how good he actually is. Honestly, in that 5-0 loss to Montreal... Probably the most swear words I've ever seen directed to one player.

Bottom line: We'll happily pay Stastny 6.6 for what he provides. We do NOT want Connolly. Don't even try to argue that. You'll never convince us to take him. Unless we get an offer that includes a top line winger coming back for our top line center, then he's going nowhere. Don't come back and try and argue over his contract. Were not bothered by it so we don't care what anyone else thinks.
I never said the Avs can't afford to keep him, I simply said that it may not be in their best interest. They're a floor-team...both of their younger and (arguably) better centres are up for new contracts. This season, O'Reilly / Duchene will make no more than about $2.7m. Next season, they're probably looking at no less than $6.5m combined. That money's gotta come from somewhere, and while they could ditch wingers / defencemen, does it really make sense to tie up almost $15m (and more than 1/4 of the budget) on 3 centres?

That money could be much better served to help facilitate the success of Duchene / O'Reilly as the team's 1-2 punch for the long haul at centre.

As for Connolly, if you followed the Leafs, you'd realize that he's nothing more than the whipping boy flavour of the week because the Leafs have him playing alongside Matt Lombardi & Joey Crabb. The only reason Toronto would even consider trading him, is if they had a better centre who slots in on the top line coming back (hence requiring his cap hit to be moved).

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02-13-2012, 08:44 PM
  #59
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Connolly being better for Avs to get to the cap floor than Stastny might be my second favorite seanlinden argument.

The undisputed favorite from him is that if you want Luke Schenn you must want Komisarek because both are defensive defensemen.

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02-13-2012, 08:45 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by jajpan View Post
Frattin is gonna be awesome one day so much potential and heart. Schenn not sure about think he needs a small market team to succeed, no idea why he has issues reading plays
So... He's a defensive defensman who has trouble reading plays... Yes, definitely sounds like a stud who'll be a top pairing D one day!!

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02-13-2012, 08:46 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seanlinden View Post
That money could be much better served to help facilitate the success of Duchene / O'Reilly as the team's 1-2 punch for the long haul at centre.
Seems to be working well for Pittsburgh...

We are only at the floor to prevent problems with the coming CBA. We have the spending power to go to the ceiling if Sherman desires.

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02-13-2012, 08:47 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freudian View Post
Connolly being better for Avs to get to the cap floor than Stastny might be my second favorite seanlinden argument.

The undisputed favorite from him is that if you want Luke Schenn you must want Komisarek because both are defensive defensemen.

Connolly allows the Avs to get to the cap floor spending less money as compared to Stastny.

As for Schenn/Komisarek, they are the same type of defenceman. The kind of team that's going to pay a premium required for a stay-at-home defenceman like Schenn, is also the kind of team that's going to consider making a move for Komisarek.

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02-13-2012, 08:51 PM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seanlinden View Post
Connolly allows the Avs to get to the cap floor spending less money as compared to Stastny.

As for Schenn/Komisarek, they are the same type of defenceman. The kind of team that's going to pay a premium required for a stay-at-home defenceman like Schenn, is also the kind of team that's going to consider making a move for Komisarek.
Avs won't be a cap floor team next year, so your argument isn't all that relevant.

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02-13-2012, 08:51 PM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seanlinden View Post
I never said the Avs can't afford to keep him, I simply said that it may not be in their best interest. They're a floor-team...both of their younger and (arguably) better centres are up for new contracts. This season, O'Reilly / Duchene will make no more than about $2.7m. Next season, they're probably looking at no less than
$6.5m combined. That money's gotta come from somewhere, and while they could ditch wingers / defencemen, does it really make
sense to tie up almost $15m (and more than 1/4 of the budget) on 3 centres?

That money could be much better served to help facilitate the
success of Duchene / O'Reilly as the team's 1-2 punch for the long haul at centre.

As for Connolly, if you followed
the Leafs, you'd realize that he's nothing more than the whipping boy flavour of the week because the Leafs have him playing
alongside Matt Lombardi & Joey Crabb.
No worries. We'll keep O'Reilly+Duchene+Stastny. Just because were a cap team now does not mean it'll always be that way. It's not a coincidence that Sherman timed all our RFA's contracts to come up the year of the CBA. The reason we didn't spend last summer is because we were saving it for our young guys. Please, don't worry about the Avs, as much as we appreciate your concern.


Oh, and poor Connolly, playing with Crabb and Lombardi. So your excusing him on that basis, but not Stastny who's been playing with Winnik/Kobasew/Yip/Porter for over a year??? Double standard? If we ever aquired Connolly(god forbid) he'd be on our 4th line with guys even worse than what he has now. Nice try, your "reasoning" won't work, but I'll give you points for trying.

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02-13-2012, 08:55 PM
  #65
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Not close at all. No reason for Colorado to do this. Another Maple Leaf fan fantasy deal.

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02-13-2012, 08:57 PM
  #66
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Av's probably won't need Stastny's contact to get to the cap floor next season. Duchene, O'Reilly, Johnson, Mueller, and Quincey will all get RFA raises. Jones, McClement, and Winnik are all UFA and should get a raise as well.

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02-13-2012, 08:57 PM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freudian View Post
Connolly being better for Avs to get to the cap floor than Stastny might be my second favorite seanlinden argument.

The undisputed favorite from him is that if you want Luke Schenn you must want Komisarek because both are defensive defensemen.
hahaha!!!

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02-13-2012, 08:57 PM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seanlinden View Post
Connolly allows the Avs to get to the cap floor spending less money as compared to Stastny.

As for Schenn/Komisarek, they are the same type of defenceman. The kind of team that's going to pay a premium required for a stay-at-home defenceman like Schenn, is also the kind of team that's going
to consider making a move for Komisarek.
Just to reiterate, Sherman had the green light to spend to the Cap if he wants. Unlike some other owners, he's not struggling. He owns the St Louis Rams, the Colorado Rockies, Colorado Rapids of the MLS, Colorado Mammoth of the NLL, and is a majority shareholder of Arsenal. Please don't trouble yourself about our cap. It's for a reason.

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02-13-2012, 08:58 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by Freudian View Post
Avs won't be a cap floor team next year
they say that every year, lol

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02-13-2012, 08:59 PM
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Avs44 View Post
Just to reiterate, Sherman had the green light to spend to the Cap if he wants. Unlike some other owners, he's not struggling. He owns the St Louis Rams, the Colorado Rockies, Colorado Rapids of the MLS, Colorado Mammoth of the NLL, and is a majority shareholder of Arsenal. Please don't trouble yourself about our cap. It's for a reason.
Doesn't mean the owners want to dump money into a team that may be losing money.

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02-13-2012, 09:02 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by vezna View Post
they say that every year, lol
Their RFA core, Duchene, O'Reilly, Johnson, Mueller, Quincey, are due for contract extensions. If Colorado could maintain salary at the floor I would be amazed.

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02-13-2012, 09:02 PM
  #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Avs44 View Post
Just to reiterate, Sherman had the green light to spend to the Cap if he wants. Unlike some other owners, he's not struggling. He owns the St Louis Rams, the Colorado Rockies, Colorado Rapids of the MLS, Colorado Mammoth of the NLL, and is a majority shareholder of Arsenal. Please don't trouble yourself about our cap. It's for a reason.
Just before anyone else jumps on you and starts trying to start something...

He doesn't own the Rockies, but he does own the Denver Nuggets, St. Louis Rams, Avalanche, Rapids, Mammoth and yes, a big shareholder of Arsenal

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02-13-2012, 09:03 PM
  #73
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So... He's a defensive defensman who has trouble reading plays... Yes, definitely sounds like a stud who'll be a top pairing D one day!!
When he's struggling, he tends to overthink... Schenn has also played at a top pairing level and shut down top players at points of his career..

Would it be fair to take a sample from Stastny's game when he's struggling, and use that to gauge his value?

He doesn't 'struggle reading plays'... He grips the stick too tight and overthinks when things don't go well...

Re; Op - I'd prefer to resign Grabovski at 4-4.5m for 50-60 points..

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02-13-2012, 09:04 PM
  #74
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Seems to be working well for Pittsburgh...

We are only at the floor to prevent problems with the coming CBA. We have the spending power to go to the ceiling if Sherman desires.
Pittsburgh is also a cap team, with 2 of the best centres in the world, for whom it doesn't matter who the wingers are (even though they actually have pretty good ones). Duchene/O'Reilly aren't at that level.

If the Avs truly had the spending ability to be at the cap, they wouldn't be at the floor. They may have left a $4-5m buffer, but not the $10m+. There isn't a team in the league that would artificially limit their success.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Avs44 View Post
No worries. We'll keep O'Reilly+Duchene+Stastny. Just because were a cap team now does not mean it'll always be that way. It's not a coincidence that Sherman timed all our RFA's contracts to come up the year of the CBA. The reason we didn't spend last summer is because we were saving it for our young guys. Please, don't worry about the Avs, as much as we appreciate your concern.


Oh, and poor Connolly, playing with Crabb and Lombardi. So your excusing him on that basis, but not Stastny who's been playing with Winnik/Kobasew/Yip/Porter for over a year??? Double standard? If we ever aquired Connolly(god forbid) he'd be on our 4th line with guys even worse than what he has now. Nice try, your "reasoning" won't work, but I'll give you points for trying.
As mentioned above, thinking that the Avs are magically going to become a cap team is living in a fantasy world. You talk about "saving the money for young guys" -- if the Avs had money to spend, they wouldn't have needed to. They're over $42m off the cap for next year!!

It's a good thing you're not running the Avs -- making decisions based on emotion rather than objectivity.

Stastny is a better goalscorer (and player) than Connolly, so of course he's going to have more success with crappy players. If you acquired Connolly, you'd have the budget space to spend on wingers... which would also be included in a deal with Toronto.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Avs44 View Post
Just to reiterate, Sherman had the green light to spend to the Cap if he wants. Unlike some other owners, he's not struggling. He owns the St Louis Rams, the Colorado Rockies, Colorado Rapids of the MLS, Colorado Mammoth of the NLL, and is a majority shareholder of Arsenal. Please don't trouble yourself about our cap. It's for a reason.
If that were the case, then what kind of disgrace of a GM would say "I'm not going to use the resources available to me to improve my team", and choose to lose? They've got $42m to spend next year if that were the case, so what's his excuse for spending none of it?

NHL owners are millionaires and billionaires. They don't make and keep their money by spending it foolishly. The Avs, just like his other teams, are businesses that operate autonomously. Just because the NFL is a guaranteed money-maker, doesn't mean he's going to sink that money into the Avs.

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02-13-2012, 09:05 PM
  #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sparxx87 View Post
When he's struggling, he tends to overthink... Schenn has also played at a top pairing level and shut down top players at points of his career..

Would it be fair to take a sample from Stastny's game when he's struggling, and use that to gauge his value?

He doesn't 'struggle reading plays'... He grips the stick too tight and overthinks when things don't go well...

Re; Op - I'd prefer to resign Grabovski at 4-4.5m for 50-60 points..
The question is...IF Grabo hits the open market, do you believe that he'll get 4-4.5, because I'm not so sure...

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