The Business of HockeyDiscuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Franchise sales, valuations, TV contracts, ratings, expansion, relocation, the CBA and work stoppage discussion goes here.
You do realize the Hartford numbers are just as old right? 1995=1995, 1994=1994, etc.
FYI, so would any new team, people like seeing new things. Whomever gets the Coyotes will have sellouts for just as long. This isn't exactly a new concept. It all depends on how good the team is later to see it continue on.
Winnipeg got a team thanks in part to a new ownership group who isn't afraid to spend some money. If Hartford can get a good ownership group behind it, I can't see why they can't have just as much success as Winnipeg is having but with a bigger arena than Winnipeg's.
4000 Jets fans traveled to the game in Minnesota last night. Will there be anything close to that kind of passion in Hartford? Will they sell out season tix in minutes?
Hockey is even bigger in Canada than it was just 20 years ago. Revenues for all the Canadian teams have skyrocketed since the 90's. Even Edmonton with their small population and crappy arena are 6th in league revenues ahead of every american team except for the rangers. Winnipeg's success is not just some honeymoon. It's part of an economic and interest boom that all canadian teams have experienced since the 90's. It's difficult to understand unless you live here in the 24 hour hockey media circus.
4000 Jets fans traveled to the game in Minnesota last night. Will there be anything close to that kind of passion in Hartford? Will they sell out season tix in minutes?
Hockey is even bigger in Canada than it was just 20 years ago. Revenues for all the Canadian teams have skyrocketed since the 90's. Even Edmonton with their small population and crappy arena are 6th in league revenues ahead of every american team except for the rangers. Winnipeg's success is not just some honeymoon. It's part of an economic and interest boom that all canadian teams have experienced since the 90's. It's difficult to understand unless you live here in the 24 hour hockey media circus.
where are you getting your numbers? NYR, Boston, Detroit, Philly, Pittsburgh, and Chicago are definitely above Edmonton in revenues. Last year's forbes list put LA, NJ, Minnesota, and San Jose above them too. All 5 other canadian teams were above edmonton, and i wouldnt be surprised if winnipeg comes in ahead of them this year too.
Canadian teams are all in the top half, but only montreal, toronto, and more recently vancouver are financial giants.
Hasn't Wang been using the threat of moving the team out of Nassua County for a few seasons now?
He's doing exactly what the Pens did ,when they had trouble getting approval /financing for their new arena.
Only in Wang's case it's been ...
1.Preseason game in Kansas City.
2.Training camp in Canadian city.
3.Preseason game in Brooklyn.
County pols latest is to tell Wang, he'll have first chance to come up with a new Coliseum land development plan.
I expect Wang to come back with a slighty scaled down Lighthouse plan ,then for the nimby crowd in the ToH to reject it.
While Brooklyn may look close to NJ, when you consider all of the traffic and congestion in the area, it makes Glendale look like downtown Phoenix.. And that's before the new arena adds to the traffic
You'll lose out on nearly all Devils fans for weeknight games.. We simply can't get there in time after work/school.. Long Island traffic is probably worse too, so weeknight will be a headache for both parties.. It's not a 10 minute subway ride for either fan base like the NYR fans have
*****
Also, the Devils absolutely will have 90%+ attendance within 5 years (assuming they remain competitive, which they have for the last 20 seasons, and are not a cap-floor guaranteed-to-suck team)..
The team is marketing itself incredibly well (for the first time ever).. The Devils had the 3rd most new season ticket holders in the NHL coming into this season, and that was after their worst season in 20 years
And they did it without charging $8 a season ticket like the Lightning, because (as the head of Devils ticket sales said) you simply can't fund a team on that, nor can you really raise season ticket prices much after people become accustomed to paying a certain price
The fan base is still very young.. Think about it, the team was not fun to watch for most of its first 10 seasons.. If you were a hockey fan before the Devils, you were a Ranger/Flyer fan and didn't switch.. Then, the Rangers win the Cup in 1994 while the Devils are heavily rumored to be considering a move to Nashville.. So many many people jumped on board with the Rangers..
A huge portion of the Devils fan base are people who grew up during the Cup winning years (like my brother and I).. The college nights were so popular that they had to add more.. Look at our attendance when kids were home from college, we sold out something like 6 of 7 games, and a huge portion was fans around 18 - 26
So you can take it to the bank that in 5 years this team's attendance issues will be as much a thing of the past as our boring trap game
MSG is paying way, way, way over market price already. That's the point. SNY taking on the Islanders and their terrible ratings for that price would be suicidal.
Dolan and Cablevision don't care about the NYI tv ratings.
They only care that having control of the NYI broadcast rights ,allows Cablevision to get the lucrative LI cable licenses ,blocking competitors Time Warner and Comcast.
4000 Jets fans traveled to the game in Minnesota last night. Will there be anything close to that kind of passion in Hartford? Will they sell out season tix in minutes?
Hockey is even bigger in Canada than it was just 20 years ago. Revenues for all the Canadian teams have skyrocketed since the 90's. Even Edmonton with their small population and crappy arena are 6th in league revenues ahead of every american team except for the rangers. Winnipeg's success is not just some honeymoon. It's part of an economic and interest boom that all canadian teams have experienced since the 90's. It's difficult to understand unless you live here in the 24 hour hockey media circus.
With 2 local billionaires each wanting to buy the NYI ,Wang doesn't have to sell out of state.
He can sell to either Peltz or Repole.
Despite the comments from writers who don't follow the team ,Wang does enjoy being an nhl owner.What he dislikes is the millions he's lost over the last 10-11 yrs.
Ideally,I'd like to see him sell the majority stake of the team to either Peltz or Repole and keep a minority interest.I doubt he does anything before 2015.He'll hold out imo until the 11th hour like the Pens did ,hoping the pols cave at the last minute and give him what he wants.
With 2 local billionaires each wanting to buy the NYI ,Wang doesn't have to sell out of state.
He can sell to either Peltz or Repole.
Despite the comments from writers who don't follow the team ,Wang does enjoy being an nhl owner.What he dislikes is the millions he's lost over the last 10-11 yrs.
Ideally,I'd like to see him sell the majority stake of the team to either Peltz or Repole and keep a minority interest.I doubt he does anything before 2015.He'll hold out imo until the 11th hour like the Pens did ,hoping the pols cave at the last minute and give him what he wants.
Three more seasons of this.Woo
Remeber he does and he does not have to sell out of state. If he sells to Kansas, the NHL can't really block it.
Remeber he does and he does not have to sell out of state. If he sells to Kansas, the NHL can't really block it.
I never suggested the league would block the sale of the team.I pointed out..
1.Nothing will happens until Wang is done, with this game of chicken he's playing with County pols.
Who blinks first?
Wang: I'm moving my team
Local pols: sure you are.
Wang :I mean it.I've got 1 foot out the door.
2.If Wang really wants to sell ,he won't have to look far.Local billionaires Repole and Peltz expressed interest in buying the team.I don't expect a sale to anyone to take place until Wang gives up on getting his own arena deal.
Aside from the Nets owner in Brooklyn,Wang still has Queens pols trying to woo the isles.
3.Nassau County pols said a few days ago in Newsday ,that Wang gets first chance to come up with a privately funded development plan.The nimby crowd rejected his big Lighthouse project and wants him to come back with something smaller.I'm sceptical Wang comes back with a smaller development plan.I'd love to be proven wrong.
With 2 local billionaires each wanting to buy the NYI ,Wang doesn't have to sell out of state.
He can sell to either Peltz or Repole.
Despite the comments from writers who don't follow the team ,Wang does enjoy being an nhl owner.What he dislikes is the millions he's lost over the last 10-11 yrs.
Ideally,I'd like to see him sell the majority stake of the team to either Peltz or Repole and keep a minority interest.I doubt he does anything before 2015.He'll hold out imo until the 11th hour like the Pens did ,hoping the pols cave at the last minute and give him what he wants.
Three more seasons of this.Woo
If he sells to the either of the two you mentioned where would they play out of?
The league’s constitution requires any sale to be approved by three-quarters of the board of governors before it becomes official. A majority of the board must also support an application for relocation.
If he sells to the either of the two you mentioned where would they play out of?
Brooklyn: They could be the 2nd tenant at the Barclays Center in Brooklyn.Not an ideal move because it would only seat 14,500 for hockey and any owner would prefer to be the main tenant.The new owner would still have the $425m-$475m left on the local cable deal.
Queens: Mayor Bloomberg and pols in Queens have called on Wang to move the team to Queens ,but he's given them the cold shoulder up to this point.They want a sports complex in Queens with the Mets,U.S. Open and Islanders.This is the option many NYI fans prefer.
Nassau County: County pols want a developer to privately finance a development project on the arena land ,that includes either a new arena or major renovations to the current arena.Wang's attitude is he came up with the privately financed Lighthouse project and the nimby crowd/partisan politics blocked it.Pols imo want something a lot smaller then the Lighthouse project ,while Wang says he needs a big project to make $.
If Wang sells to Peltz or Repole and that guy is not interested in a big development project ,just having a strong lease and lucrative cable deal ,it'd increase their chances of staying in Nassau County.
If Wang sells to Peltz or Repole and that guy is not interested in a big development project ,just having a strong lease and lucrative cable deal ,it'd increase their chances of staying in Nassau County.
Am I missing something here? Wang is getting the cable revenue today and losing a ton of money. How would shuffling the ownership change that?
The league’s constitution requires any sale to be approved by three-quarters of the board of governors before it becomes official. A majority of the board must also support an application for relocation.
So... yes the NHL ( or it's member clubs ) can stop Wang from moving the team to London England.
Yeah, I was thinking that it worked something along these lines as well. Find it hard to imagine that a pro sports league wouldn't have at least some power to prevent a franchise relocation.
Am I missing something here? Wang is getting the cable revenue today and losing a ton of money. How would shuffling the ownership change that?
Cable revenue ,has nothing to do with having what Bettman called the worst lease in the league ( for a decade in Wang's case).Isles have a landlord called SMG that operates the arena and that company gets concession revenue ( and I think parking revenue).
1-2 yrs ago, County Exec. Souzzi gave Wang control of Coliseum events just days before leaving office.Wang had been claiming loses up to $20m per season.Forbes says those losses are down to $4.5m after Souzzi's move.
The current lease expires in 3 more seasons.A new owner would not sign such a lousy lease ,would not have SMG reaping his revenue..He would have the cable deal and a new arena would give him luxury boxes.
A new owner would not sign such a lousy lease ,would not have SMG reaping his revenue..He would have the cable deal and a new arena would give him luxury boxes.
If a new HOCKEY arena was available, Wang wouldn't be looking at selling. Show me the money new hockey arena.
Don't know if it's been discussed already, but can the new private/public partnership Chris Hansen is doing with Seattle and King County be a model that Wang, Nassau and Hempstead could look at exploring? Has it been tried before?
Seattle has pretty strict laws when building a new sports complex, but this one seems to pass all the tests, and also looks to be a win/win financially for both Hansen and Seattle.
Cable revenue ,has nothing to do with having what Bettman called the worst lease in the league ( for a decade in Wang's case).Isles have a landlord called SMG that operates the arena and that company gets concession revenue ( and I think parking revenue).
1-2 yrs ago, County Exec. Souzzi gave Wang control of Coliseum events just days before leaving office.Wang had been claiming loses up to $20m per season.Forbes says those losses are down to $4.5m after Souzzi's move.
The current lease expires in 3 more seasons.A new owner would not sign such a lousy lease ,would not have SMG reaping his revenue..He would have the cable deal and a new arena would give him luxury boxes.
The SMG lease is truly horrid. From what I can tell SMG gets 11% of ticket revenue, 40% of advertising and 100% of parking and concessions.
Wang knew about the bad lease when he bought the team, but had some assurances from Nassau County that a redevelopment along the lines of the Lighthouse project would be possible. I don't think he anticipated the difficulty of local politics.
4000 Jets fans traveled to the game in Minnesota last night. Will there be anything close to that kind of passion in Hartford? Will they sell out season tix in minutes?
Hockey is even bigger in Canada than it was just 20 years ago. Revenues for all the Canadian teams have skyrocketed since the 90's. Even Edmonton with their small population and crappy arena are 6th in league revenues ahead of every american team except for the rangers. Winnipeg's success is not just some honeymoon. It's part of an economic and interest boom that all canadian teams have experienced since the 90's. It's difficult to understand unless you live here in the 24 hour hockey media circus.
I know we moved on in the convo but I just want to respond to this.
Who cares? Is it the Hartford fans' job to prop up other teams? If my home is sold out 41 out of 41 times who cares about giving other teams your money.
I'm also pretty sure that a Hartford team would have fans go to Rags & Bruins games. Glad to know you think so little of Whaler fans.
1995=1995, 1994=1994, etc.
