yeah i thought the same thing. That's a lot of money being thrown about by Carolina.
It's going to keep them average, too. Ruutu doesn't bring any more to the table than Bert. They got him at twice the term and over double the price. "He's younger, he plays with sandpaper"... psssssh. Not impressed.
His best season is pretty similar to Hudler's best season. Now the physical aspect will make Ruutu more valuable. But if Ruutu gets near 5 million p.a. then Hudler may well seek 4 million.
Ruutu has always been overrated around these parts (not just this board, HF in general).
Don't get me wrong; good player, gritty, can score, etc. etc., but still incredibly fragile, and definitely not worth that much. Really, I'm glad he's off the market now; considering what the prices have already been so far, I shudder to think what he might've cost if he actually was moved.
His best season is pretty similar to Hudler's best season. Now the physical aspect will make Ruutu more valuable. But if Ruutu gets near 5 million p.a. then Hudler may well seek 4 million.
Ever since the Leino contract I've been banging the drum that Hudler will get 4 million in free agency. This deal only backs that up.
The bottom line is there's not enough quality players for every team to spend to the cap. So when a team has ample cap space and wants a marginal guy, like Ruutu or Hudler, sometimes they have to overpay.
Now the real debate then, is that if there's ample cap space around the league, and there certainly is tons of cap space... is that really overpaying? This is the kind of thing that would keep Socrates up for nights on end.
Was just over on the Caps forum. Wow, glad to be a Wings fan where we whine about anything our "spolied, make the playoffs every year and contend for the cup" hearts want.
As fans we are so spolied, great franchise, great GM, great coach, great farm system. We have had Stevie/Lidstrom as the leaders during my time as a fan. They have OV as a captain/leader who is ......jesus, what can I say here about a 9m player who is playing the way he is.
With that said; I would really love Semin here. Dont think it would cost that much. I truly think he would flourish here as we have here what the caps don't.
Structure, great culture and a mature base to motivated him and keep him "in line."
What Wash doesnt have is a leadership/professional/accountability based culture our team has.
We are truly spolied and I will enjoy every last second.
Ever since the Leino contract I've been banging the drum that Hudler will get 4 million in free agency. This deal only backs that up.
The bottom line is there's not enough quality players for every team to spend to the cap. So when a team has ample cap space and wants a marginal guy, like Ruutu or Hudler, sometimes they have to overpay.
Why would Hudler only want the highest paycheck? He already got 10 million tax free from Russia.
Leino thing was different, it was his first multi-million deal on his career. Hudler has already earned ~20 million during his hockey career.
If he really loves the Red Wings, why on Earth would he take 4 milloin from crap team than stay at Wings with 3 million?
Was just over on the Caps forum. Wow, glad to be a Wings fan where we whine about anything our "spolied, make the playoffs every year and contend for the cup" hearts want.
As fans we are so spolied, great franchise, great GM, great coach, great farm system. We have had Stevie/Lidstrom as the leaders during my time as a fan. They have OV as a captain/leader who is ......jesus, what can I say here about a 9m player who is playing the way he is.
With that said; I would really love Semin here. Dont think it would cost that much. I truly think he would flourish here as we have here what the caps don't.
Structure, great culture and a mature base to motivated him and keep him "in line."
What Wash doesnt have is a leadership/professional/accountability based culture our team has.
We are truly spolied and I will enjoy every last second.
Tell that to killbuttman.
...but seriously, agreed on most points there. Only thing I'm not sure about is Semin; still don't see in him what others do. Yeah, he is definitely talented, but I still don't know if even the Wings are the proper environment that can turn him around. He's the kind of player that needs a lot of babysitting, and we certainly don't need that line of attitude going into the playoffs. We'll see, I guess.
Why would Hudler only want the highest paycheck? He already got 10 million tax free from Russia.
Leino thing was different, it was his first multi-million deal on his career. Hudler has already earned ~20 million during his hockey career.
If he really loves the Red Wings, why on Earth would he take 4 milloin from crap team than stay at Wings with 3 million?
I don't know what he's going to do, or what Holland is thinking. I was just commenting on Hudler's potential paycheck if he hits free agency, based upon recent contracts.
Your questions go outside the scope of my post and I wouldn't pretend to know the answers.
Kenny Holland better at least call up McPhee a few times and see what the asking price is for Semin. He's the only true top 6 guy that can be had for a reasonable bounty.
Was just over on the Caps forum. Wow, glad to be a Wings fan where we whine about anything our "spolied, make the playoffs every year and contend for the cup" hearts want.
As fans we are so spolied, great franchise, great GM, great coach, great farm system. We have had Stevie/Lidstrom as the leaders during my time as a fan. They have OV as a captain/leader who is ......jesus, what can I say here about a 9m player who is playing the way he is.
With that said; I would really love Semin here. Dont think it would cost that much. I truly think he would flourish here as we have here what the caps don't.
Structure, great culture and a mature base to motivated him and keep him "in line."
What Wash doesnt have is a leadership/professional/accountability based culture our team has.
We are truly spolied and I will enjoy every last second.
Was just over on the Caps forum. Wow, glad to be a Wings fan where we whine about anything our "spolied, make the playoffs every year and contend for the cup" hearts want.
As fans we are so spolied, great franchise, great GM, great coach, great farm system. We have had Stevie/Lidstrom as the leaders during my time as a fan. They have OV as a captain/leader who is ......jesus, what can I say here about a 9m player who is playing the way he is.
With that said; I would really love Semin here. Dont think it would cost that much. I truly think he would flourish here as we have here what the caps don't.
Structure, great culture and a mature base to motivated him and keep him "in line."
What Wash doesnt have is a leadership/professional/accountability based culture our team has.
We are truly spolied and I will enjoy every last second.
Speak for yourself.
I really detest the idea that fans are "spoiled."
Why would Hudler only want the highest paycheck? He already got 10 million tax free from Russia.
Leino thing was different, it was his first multi-million deal on his career. Hudler has already earned ~20 million during his hockey career.
If he really loves the Red Wings, why on Earth would he take 4 milloin from crap team than stay at Wings with 3 million?
In regards to Hudler and the amount he's made so far in his career. Sure he signed a 10 million dollar deal with Dynamo but that club was in serious financial trouble and when it folded and they were going to merge he was released from his second year of the deal. I'm not sure if he was fully paid for his first year and if he was paid at all for the second. That could be close to three quarters or half of his total earnings so far.
Why would Hudler only want the highest paycheck? He already got 10 million tax free from Russia.
Leino thing was different, it was his first multi-million deal on his career. Hudler has already earned ~20 million during his hockey career.
If he really loves the Red Wings, why on Earth would he take 4 milloin from crap team than stay at Wings with 3 million?
Wrong. He made $5M in Russia. Then his team folded/merged so he came back here after 1 season.
Why is Hudler expected to take a big discount to stay here? Tell me what discount Zee took? Mule? Hint. Ignore the cap hit. Add up the cash salary during the years they are reasonably expected to play. There is no discount at all. Zee is taking home $7.75M CASH for awhile now. Next year - another $7.75M. Then 4 more years at $7.5M. Then at age 37 - another $7M. Then he probably retires and walks away from his final few years. So the cap hit says Zee is making $6.1M, but don't kid yourself, there's no discount at all. Same with Mule. So why is Hudler supposed to take less?
FORWARDS
Todd Bertuzzi ($2.075m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Alexander Semin ($6.000m)
Jiri Hudler ($3.500m) / Valtteri Filppula ($3.000m) / Johan Franzen ($3.954m)
Gustav Nyquist ($0.875m) / Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Tomas Tatar ($0.840m)
Darren Helm ($1.500m) / Paul Gaustad ($2.500m) / Justin Abdelkader ($1.500m) /
Jan Mursak ($0.550m) / Drew Miller ($0.837m)
DEFENSEMEN
Ryan Suter ($7.500m) / Niklas Kronwall ($4.750m)
Ian White ($2.875m) / Kyle Quincey ($3.500m)
Jonathan Ericsson ($3.250m) / Jakub Kindl ($0.883m)
Brendan Smith ($0.875m)
GOALTENDERS
Jimmy Howard ($2.250m) / Joey MacDonald ($0.550m)
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $66,348,711; BONUSES: $247,500
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): -$2,048,711
FORWARDS
Todd Bertuzzi ($2.075m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Alexander Semin ($6.000m)
Jiri Hudler ($3.500m) / Valtteri Filppula ($3.000m) / Johan Franzen ($3.954m)
Gustav Nyquist ($0.875m) / Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Tomas Tatar ($0.840m)
Darren Helm ($1.500m) / Paul Gaustad ($2.500m) / Justin Abdelkader ($1.500m) /
Jan Mursak ($0.550m) / Drew Miller ($0.837m)
DEFENSEMEN
Ryan Suter ($7.500m) / Niklas Kronwall ($4.750m)
Ian White ($2.875m) / Kyle Quincey ($3.500m)
Jonathan Ericsson ($3.250m) / Jakub Kindl ($0.883m)
Brendan Smith ($0.875m)
GOALTENDERS
Jimmy Howard ($2.250m) / Joey MacDonald ($0.550m)
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $66,348,711; BONUSES: $247,500
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): -$2,048,711
Lidstrom - Suter
Stuart - Quincey
Commodore - Smith
I think this is likely, certainly closer to something that could happen as opposed to a lot of the crazy ideas around here. But Cleary has a no trade until the 30 days prior to the deadline, so we will have to figure that out.
Enh. You're conflating bad deals with market value. So, yeah, if the only way Detroit could get a UFA would be to offer a terrible contract, obviously.
That's not really the way things tend to work, though.
You're the same dude that laughed hysterically at the notion someone would give more than $2 mil a year to guys like Scottie Upshall.
'Nuff said.
Market value, by definition, is the worst (meaning most overpriced) deal a player can get when he's a free agent. All it takes is one idiot GM to set market value, and that GM is never Ken Holland.
Quote:
Well, they don't need to 'sucker' them both. As I've explained to you before, you only really need to hit on one of them now, then maybe another one in 3-4 years, and another one 3-4 years after that.
That said, if Lidstrom either leaves or returns at 4-5 mil Detroit has the cap flexibility to offer both guys contracts in the 6-7 mil a year AAV range, which could include paying them 8-10 million bucks a year, each, in the first 4-5 years of their contracts.
If you think that qualifies as 'suckering' them...
They've never asked Lidstrom to take less money and they won't start now.
They've also never gotten involved in a megacontract with a player that's never played for them. They won't start now - not at the prices it will take to get Parise and Suter.
They'd have to leave a lot of money on the table for the Wings to find a deal acceptable. Probably at least $20 million. It's not out of the question, certainly, but I don't think any UFA is going to take a $20 million+ haircut just so he can play for the Wings. Hence the term "sucker".
Quote:
That's the nice thing about 'markets' though, Sarcastro. Those bad contracts have an impact on those teams and force other moves or other non-moves elsewhere. Every UFA doesn't get signed to a bad deal, and not even the majority of them do. You get 5 or 6 high-visibility muffs every year, but 40-50 other signings happen at reasonable rates.
The Richards deal from last year is a good starting point for Parise. It's not the worst contract in the world at 9/$60m, but it's pretty bad. And Parise is better, and younger so he'll get more.
Suter is tougher to pinpoint since there haven't been many big-ticket UFA defensemen lately. They either get extended by their teams or someone deals for them just before July 1st and then throws money at them. Brian Campbell is probably the closest - that was 4 years ago and Suter is much more highly regarded than Campbell was. Start with $7 mil or so a year over 8 to 10 years with a couple garbage years tacked on the end to lower the cap hit. Then increase as teams fight over him and drive the price up.
While there are plenty of those mid-range guys that get upper-tier contracts, it's the guys at the top end of the UFA pool that get the worst deals. Show me the last huge true UFA contract that could be considered a "value" or below-market signing. I can show you an Ehrhoff deal, a Kovalchuk deal, a Campbell deal, a Richards deal, a Vanek deal (RFA, but equally terrible), a Pronger deal, and many more.
It would not surprise me to see Hudler re-upped relatively soon for like 3.5m cap hit. I mean if your gonna give Bert a raise and a 2nd year at age 37 before July 1 why not Hudler too.
I expect this come July 1:
Quote:
CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR
FORWARDS
Todd Bertuzzi ($2.075m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Johan Franzen ($3.954m)
Valtteri Filppula ($3.000m) / Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Jiri Hudler ($3.500m)
Drew Miller ($0.837m) / Darren Helm ($1.200m) / Daniel Cleary ($2.800m)
Patrick Eaves ($1.200m) / Cory Emmerton ($0.533m) / Justin Abdelkader ($0.900m)
Jan Mursak ($0.550m)
DEFENSEMEN
Nicklas Lidstrom ($6.200m) / Ian White ($2.875m)
Niklas Kronwall ($4.750m) / Kyle Quincey ($3.500m)
Jonathan Ericsson ($3.250m) / Jakub Kindl ($0.883m)
GOALTENDERS
Jimmy Howard ($2.250m) / Joey MacDonald ($0.550m)
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $57,592,544; BONUSES: $0
CAP SPACE (21-man roster): $6,707,456
-That leaves us ~6.7m for Parise/Suter/Other. And thats with Smith being left in GR and me being generous on Q, Helm, Abby raises.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winger98
So, Carter/Richards couldn't get Philly out of a moderately weaker East, so the Kings are going to build around them in the West. Go Lombardi Go.
Those two partied too much in Philly, imagine what they'll be up to in LA.
