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All Purpose Erik Karlsson Thread

View Poll Results: Does karlsson break the senators points record for a defenseman?
Yes 180 93.26%
No 13 6.74%
Voters: 193. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
02-23-2012, 08:36 AM
  #251
NyQuil
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trentmccleary View Post
he was -30 because of a short stretch of games.

After christmas last season,
- spezza got hurt for 15 games while alfie was too banged up to help. The team couldn't score and karlsson couldn't rack up many pluses.
- elliott broke down during the same period + 6 more games and turned into a hologram; getting bombed repeatedly.

During that 21 game span (dec 29 - feb 18), karlsson was -25.
lol.

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02-23-2012, 08:40 AM
  #252
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Originally Posted by NyQuil View Post
LOL, it is getting pretty ridiculous.
At some point, you hope the insecurity turns to confidence, and the need to defend Karlsson to the death disappears.

If you are a special player, you have to show it over a few seasons before you are really recognized. This is just how it works, and for good reason. Guys get injured, distracted... teams have down-years... there are so many examples around the league (Doughty, Meszaros, Green, Myers etc).

Personally, I think Karlsson is having the best season out of any defenseman in the league. I think he is so much better offensively than Chara and Weber, that it may account for his defensive short-comings; however, I will fully understand and accept when Weber wins the Norris. It's just how the league works, and it is fair.

In conclusion, take an Ativan, and get outside once in a while.

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02-23-2012, 08:41 AM
  #253
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Originally Posted by Proust View Post
Personally, I think Karlsson is having the best season out of any defenseman in the league. I think he is so much better offensively than Chara and Weber, that it may account for his defensive short-comings; however, I will fully understand and accept when Weber wins the Norris. It's just how the league works, and it is fair.
It's how Chara was robbed by Niedermayer.

I don't think it's fair, but it's tradition.

Unlike the Hart and Vezina, you don't win the Norris based on an individual season in isolation.

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02-23-2012, 08:42 AM
  #254
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Originally Posted by Mercurial View Post
Hope he's still got game when he loses his speed.
The way he plays, his speed is used more for defense than offense. When he gets into his 30s, he'll have to be better positionally. His brain will still allow him to run the play and rack up points.

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02-23-2012, 08:46 AM
  #255
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Originally Posted by NyQuil View Post
It's how Chara was robbed by Niedermayer.

I don't think it's fair, but it's tradition.

Unlike the Hart and Vezina, you don't win the Norris based on an individual season in isolation.
True, but that season by Chara was influential in his later Norris wins. And his Norris wins may be influential to a Norris win after a later season when he doesn't deserve it!

There is a lag.

To be honest, I have my doubts the Norris will be kind to Karlsson over his career (unless he stays a PPG defenseman for his career). Everytime a 6'3, 220 lbs scores 45-50 pts, he's going to be the favourite.

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02-23-2012, 08:47 AM
  #256
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There are guys out there who don't lose their speed.

Teemu Selanne and Mike Gartner spring to mind.

Dan Boyle doesn't seem to be slowing down.

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02-23-2012, 08:48 AM
  #257
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Originally Posted by Proust View Post
True, but that season by Chara was influential in his later Norris wins. And his Norris wins may be influential to a Norris win a later season when he didn't deserve it!

There is a lag.
Agreed.

It's like Russell Crowe winning for Gladiator after losing for the Insider.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Proust View Post
To be honest, I have my doubts the Norris will be kind to Karlsson over his career (unless he stays a PPG defenseman for his career). Everytime a 6'3, 220 lbs scores 45-50 pts, he's going to be the favourite.
Maybe, although I think Lidstrom broke the mould a little bit.

He's a positional defenceman, not a physical one.

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02-23-2012, 08:49 AM
  #258
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Yeah, and what if Weber and Charaesque guys lose speed? They'll become penalty-prone pylons.

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02-23-2012, 08:50 AM
  #259
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trentmccleary View Post
He was -30 because of a short stretch of games.

After Christmas last season,
- Spezza got hurt for 15 games while Alfie was too banged up to help. The team couldn't score and Karlsson couldn't rack up many pluses.
- Elliott broke down during the same period + 6 more games and turned into a hologram; getting bombed repeatedly.

During that 21 game span (Dec 29 - Feb 18), Karlsson was -25.
did you read my post in the Karlsson vs apple pie thread?

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02-23-2012, 08:55 AM
  #260
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Originally Posted by nyquil
Maybe, although I think Lidstrom broke the mould a little bit.

He's a positional defenceman, not a physical one.
Yes, the Lidstrom model might help Karlsson out...However, I think Karlsson has a flash and arrogance to his game that Lidstrom never had. Lidstrom has a robotic efficiency to his game, which I think helps him garner more respect in the hockey world. It's the same reason why everyone wants to like Alex Pietrangelo better than Karlsson.

As a fan, I love the cocksure Karlsson. It's an attitude that's been lacking within this franchise, and its absence defined the Jacques Martin era. There have been way too many players who haven't been sure enough of their cocks. Give me the guy who wants the puck in the last minute of the game.

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02-23-2012, 08:56 AM
  #261
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Originally Posted by Proust View Post
As a fan, I love the cocksure Karlsson. It's an attitude that's been lacking within this franchise, and its absence defined the Jacques Martin era. There have been way too many players who haven't been sure enough of their cocks. Give me the guy who wants the puck in the last minute of the game.
I like his confidence as well, although like Spezza and many others, he'll probably mellow out with time.

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02-23-2012, 08:56 AM
  #262
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Originally Posted by NyQuil View Post
I owe Minister of Offence some crow.

He maintained that Karlsson was the most skilled d-man in the league.

I disagreed.

I think he's right.

Enjoy this retraction MoO!
FWIW I remember Greg Carvel telling me in Karlsson's first year that within 2 years EK would be the best defenceman in the NHL, and i said "offensively"? - "no, the best".

So, yeah - that was pretty spot on.

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02-23-2012, 09:01 AM
  #263
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Originally Posted by Proust View Post
If you are a special player, you have to show it over a few seasons before you are really recognized. This is just how it works, and for good reason. Guys get injured, distracted... teams have down-years... there are so many examples around the league (Doughty, Meszaros, Green, Myers etc).
I would say this is true for players like Karlsson and Lidstrom who don't fit the traditional mold of 6 ft 4 heavy hitting, shot blocking, rocket slap shot D-men. Most people look at their body type and assume they have some fatal flaw that makes them completely terrible in their own end and it takes years for these people to accept that these guys might actually not be completely one-dimensional.

But guys like Doughty and Phaneuf were heralded almost before they even played an NHL game because they have the exact body type people expect to see in a star defenceman. The opposite is kind of true here in that these guys can be absolute pylons but as long as they get more than 25 points they're considered excellent D-men.

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02-23-2012, 09:05 AM
  #264
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What would be a funny question to ask, and I'm not suggesting we do this, because it's Karlsson overload right now, would be:

"How many points would be enough, in your mind, to seal the Norris trophy for Karlsson?"

-80? 90? 100 points?

If he scored 110 points as a defenceman, would that be enough?

For some people, it honestly wouldn't.

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02-23-2012, 09:10 AM
  #265
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Like I said, there are some people who literally will not accept the idea that someone who is smaller than 6 ft 2, 220 lbs can be a good defenseman, no matter how good they are on the ice. They're looking for a guy that conforms to a certain archetype and media narrative.

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02-23-2012, 09:11 AM
  #266
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NyQuil View Post
What would be a funny question to ask, and I'm not suggesting we do this, because it's Karlsson overload right now, would be:

"How many points would be enough, in your mind, to seal the Norris trophy for Karlsson?"

-80? 90? 100 points?

If he scored 110 points as a defenceman, would that be enough?

For some people, it honestly wouldn't.
My guess is that more points would hurt his case! Somehow it would make him worse defensively.

People should rag on Weber and Chara for being so offensively inept. I don't understand where it was written that a defenseman's priority is defense. If you understand hockey, you will recognize that a D-man is essentially a point-guard. Yes, anybody can start a play and pass to an open guy from their own end, but to pass to the right guy at the right time? My current rec team has good skill up-front, but our d-corps has no vision whatsoever. We struggle to score goals. The defensive position can be just as important to play-making as the center position.


Last edited by Proust: 02-23-2012 at 09:16 AM.
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02-23-2012, 09:14 AM
  #267
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NyQuil View Post
What would be a funny question to ask, and I'm not suggesting we do this, because it's Karlsson overload right now, would be:

"How many points would be enough, in your mind, to seal the Norris trophy for Karlsson?"

-80? 90? 100 points?

If he scored 110 points as a defenceman, would that be enough?

For some people, it honestly wouldn't.
It's close between Weber and Karlsson though. The thing is, over the last 5-6 games Karlsson's been just completely dominating. If Karlsson keeps this pace for a bit more that might seal the norris.

12 points and +8 in his last 5 games... Only thing is that those were below-average teams.

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02-23-2012, 09:18 AM
  #268
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Originally Posted by Immanuel View Post
12 points and +8 in his last 5 games... Only thing is that those were below-average teams.
Good players score a ton of points against below average teams. It's hilarious to me that scoring a ton of points against an NHL team can considered to be proof that a player is NOT good.

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02-23-2012, 09:26 AM
  #269
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http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh....php?t=1115229

Now don't go charging in there, just recognize that people just make **** up to feel better about themselves and their team.

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02-23-2012, 09:37 AM
  #270
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Originally Posted by NyQuil View Post
http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh....php?t=1115229

Now don't go charging in there, just recognize that people just make **** up to feel better about themselves and their team.
Shouldn't that thread be in the entertainment section? Haven't had a laugh like that in a while.

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02-23-2012, 09:38 AM
  #271
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Shouldn't that thread be in the entertainment section? Haven't had a laugh like that in a while.
I'm definitely lurking there for LULZ.

Every post is more and more ignorant.

Even the moderators are clueless.

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02-23-2012, 09:45 AM
  #272
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Originally Posted by NyQuil View Post
http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh....php?t=1115229

Now don't go charging in there, just recognize that people just make **** up to feel better about themselves and their team.
They just wanna believe so badly.

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02-23-2012, 09:48 AM
  #273
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Karlsson makes mistakes out there. I've come to embrace that, and in fact am a little saddened that it's happening less frequently. Because I love seeing him kick it in to "Guilty Gear" and make up for a turnover or getting caught out of position.

I'm not holding my breath on winning the Norris. The only crime will be if he doesn't get nominated. His time will come.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthKoRn View Post
So can we just start chanting "Norris! Norris! Norris!" every time Karlsson gets a point at home?
Please don't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Proust View Post
My guess is that more points would hurt his case! Somehow it would make him worse defensively.

People should rag on Weber and Chara for being so offensively inept. I don't understand where it was written that a defenseman's priority is defense. If you understand hockey, you will recognize that a D-man is essentially a point-guard. Yes, anybody can start a play and pass to an open guy from their own end, but to pass to the right guy at the right time? My current rec team has good skill up-front, but our d-corps has no vision whatsoever. We struggle to score goals. The defensive position can be just as important to play-making as the center position.
Somewhere before the "m".

Quote:
Originally Posted by NyQuil View Post
http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh....php?t=1115229

Now don't go charging in there, just recognize that people just make **** up to feel better about themselves and their team.
Oh lawdy that's some rich creamery butter in there.

Here's a great quote:
Quote:
Subban totally outclasses him defensively (and in terms of physicality and agitation).

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Old
02-23-2012, 09:51 AM
  #274
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Originally Posted by NyQuil View Post
I'm definitely lurking there for LULZ.

Every post is more and more ignorant.

Even the moderators are clueless.
I love the posts that say:

"I really haven't watched Karlsson much this year..."

and then go on to bash his defensive play. Hahahahaha. So many experts out there.

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02-23-2012, 09:52 AM
  #275
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Well that's embarrassing...

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