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Old
02-14-2012, 01:48 AM
  #26
OgoBoHo
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Originally Posted by vcanuck View Post
Well he hasnt bee playing good since game 1, so yes he is looking alittle better lol.
Well there ya go! He improved!

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02-14-2012, 02:07 AM
  #27
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IMO we need a pure puck moving and PP defenseman ahead of anything else
canucks have been number 1 on the powerplay last season and this season as well. not sure why canucks need another powerplay defensemen. another top 4 defensemen would of be nice. just in case of injuries. another top 6/top 9 forward with some grit. I think it's very important canucks have 3 lines that could score

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02-14-2012, 02:48 AM
  #28
Hopeless Unbeliever
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Originally Posted by Barney Gumble View Post
And it was a gimmie. A comedy of errors from a number of player that led to the goal but I'd pin most of the blame on Maholtra.
This is silly. Malhotra is out there to win faceoffs yes, which on a good day he does 60% of the time. Blaming him over Bitz, Luongo or Edler for that GTG is ridiculous, even on a good day he loses 40% of faceoffs, but that in itself was not the major error in the leadup to that goal.

Having said that I'm not particularly happy having Malhotra's contract on the team for another year after this, but it is what it is so we should probably give up moaning too much about it, because it's not going to change.

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Old
02-14-2012, 02:59 AM
  #29
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i'd be blown away if malhotra isn't vastly improved when he has a whole offseason to train

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Old
02-14-2012, 02:59 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by thenextone View Post
Is it just me or can Malhotra not see the puck at all? The guy swings at loose pucks more than anyone on the team and misses them 50% of the time. I don't know if this is due to his lack of stereoscopic vision, but it makes no sense because his face-off dominance is still there.
Maybe his faceoff prowess is so great that he can win them blindfolded!

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02-14-2012, 05:29 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by thenextone View Post
Is it just me or can Malhotra not see the puck at all? The guy swings at loose pucks more than anyone on the team and misses them 50% of the time. I don't know if this is due to his lack of stereoscopic vision, but it makes no sense because his face-off dominance is still there.
Being partially blind in one eye and having the same surgery as manny, i can say playing hockey would be incredibly hard, you have reduced depth perception, not a huge problem in certain aspects, but can be in some.

I can still play sports like ping pong, and baseball, but i dont know if i would be better if i had two healthy eyes, I know when i was a kid I was much better but taking into consideration other factors im not sure.

With that said yes it has to be a guessing game in a sport like hockey where your constantly moving and trying to track the puck. I dont have trouble watching the puck down ice but when it comes toward you there is definitely a slight guessing game with regards to depth perception and how close or far the puck actually is.


Last edited by Orca Smash: 02-14-2012 at 05:36 AM.
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Old
02-14-2012, 07:43 AM
  #32
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Geez according some here Malhotra is the whole key to the elaborate deployment of our personal. Like he allows Hodgson to play easy minutes, the Sedins to get offensive time (and I guess is thus responsible for much of the Sedins get done), allows the third and fourth line to function and so on .... beyond that there is no one quicker with a high 5 or a slap on the back than good ole Manny.

You guys criticizing Malhotra have no idea of the intricate and essential cog he is in the mathematical calculus devised by the Canuck brain trust.

And you guys want to criticize him for not being able to push the puck two feet ahead to get it over the blue line

You guys should dig into the stats and you'll discover that Malhotra is, in fact, a hellva of hockey player.

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Old
02-14-2012, 08:11 AM
  #33
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I would bet big money that Manny is one if the best team guys in the dressing room. He's a big part of this team and isn't going anywhere - no he hasn't been as good as last year but their is also the human aspect to consider. You don't just drop team players - that's how you create animosity amongst the team.

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02-14-2012, 08:37 AM
  #34
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Manny's stats aren't good at all except for face-off where he's still among the best.

If you look at Malhotra's stats in GA/60, SF and SA/60 (incl. blocked & missed), he has the worst stats among all Canucks forwards by a fairly wide margin. Not only that but those closest to him statistically - Lapierre, Wiese, Volpatti, the 4th line basically - didn't play with him that much. If Malhotra was on the 4th line from the get go (and Lapierre on the 3rd), those stats would most likely be a lot worse.

Then looking at the actual goals against at NHL.com in the games where Malhotra has a minus rating, the impression you get is of a passive (albeit positionally sound) style of play rather than a pro-active one, much like the way RJ played.

Nobody's talking about dropping Manny for the reasons we all know. Let's just be realistic about his actual contributions on the ice.

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Old
02-14-2012, 08:59 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by NugentHopkinsfan View Post
He was only on the ice to win the face-off and he failed. He didn't do HIS job.

You know the job we're paying him 2.5 million to do?


Bottom line in Lapierre made at through three rounds of playoffs without being on for a goal against, that's serious defensive ability from a third line centre and for 1.5 million less than Manny he can do it again. Manny of course being the guy we made it to the finals without


So we don't NEED his face-off ability since we didn't need him in the playoffs. Same goes for his penalty killing. Other than those two things he brings nothing, he's not physical, he's not offensive, he's basically an assistant coach/nice guy who takes face-offs.

Manny didn't go 100% in the faceoff dot, string him up.

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02-14-2012, 09:00 AM
  #36
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I realize that a lot of you guys base your opinions on what you did the last time you played NHL12 but this thread is rather pathetic.

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Old
02-14-2012, 09:26 AM
  #37
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People need to realize that Hodgson being put on the 4th line has nothing to do with Hodgson and everything to do with Malhotra. The playoffs are quickly approaching, as is the deadline. This is the time to evaluate what we have at each position and see what everyone is capable of. I'm curious as to how Malhotra will play being thrown back into the same role as last year, will he be able to re-gain his form? If not, maybe Gillis is thinking about moving his contract at the deadline. Manny has a limited NTC, what would be the point of Gillis giving out a "limited" NTC if he didn't feel it was his right to move Manny under those terms? In other words, the stance on not asking players to waive their NTC doesn't apply here should Gillis decide to move Manny.

I doubt Manny is moved as he's a big part of the locker room. But it has to be examined as an option if we can improve the team. Our leadership group is strong enough that we can easily subtract Malhotra and not skip a beat.

More realistically, I think AV is simply trying different combinations to make our line-up more versatile. It certainly wouldn't surprise me to see Manny used as the #3C in many parts of a long playoff drive, he doesn't trust rookies defensively. If we're ahead by a goal with 10 minutes left in the 3rd, you can bet Manny will be out there instead of Hodgson.

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Old
02-14-2012, 09:46 AM
  #38
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Not to pile one, but one thing I have noticed about Malhotra is that he's pretty poor when it comes to 50/50 pucks which doesn't make a lot of sense when you look at his size and faceoff ability. It looks as if his limited vision out of one eye is hampering his response or reaction speed.

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Old
02-14-2012, 09:51 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Hopeless Unbeliever View Post
This is silly. Malhotra is out there to win faceoffs yes, which on a good day he does 60% of the time. Blaming him over Bitz, Luongo or Edler for that GTG is ridiculous, even on a good day he loses 40% of faceoffs, but that in itself was not the major error in the leadup to that goal.

Having said that I'm not particularly happy having Malhotra's contract on the team for another year after this, but it is what it is so we should probably give up moaning too much about it, because it's not going to change.
If he did his job and cleared the puck out of our zone in the first place - there wouldn't have been a faceoff in our own zone to begin with. That was the major error. Losing the faceoff wasn't my problem with him on those sequence of plays.

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Old
02-14-2012, 06:30 PM
  #40
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I know this thread seems to be one to just dump on Manny, but i doubt any canucks fan dislike him, all i was saying was that with his diminished role and deceasing reliability that he's not worth the money that we are currently paying for him. I like experience and good leadership, but im not willing to pay a fourth liner 2.5 mill for underpreforming.

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Old
02-14-2012, 10:37 PM
  #41
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[QUOTE=Orca Smash;44103575]Being partially blind in one eye and having the same surgery as manny, i can say playing hockey would be incredibly hard, you have reduced depth perception, not a huge problem in certain aspects, but can be in some.

I can still play sports like ping pong, and baseball, but i dont know if i would be better if i had two healthy eyes, I know when i was a kid I was much better but taking into consideration other factors im not sure.
QUOTE]

I'm assuming you are talking about slow pitch ?? Because if it was competitive baseball you would need both eyes to track the ball from a pitcher, whereas if it was slow pitch you have half an hour to wait for the ball to come in anyways. Ditto for ping pong too.... if you are really ripping the ping pong ball around against a good opponent you would need really good eyesight.
All the best to you and good on you for still doing things you like.

I think some posters are a little too hard on Manny. He isn't as effective as he used to be but he is still a handy player at times , great in the dot and the guys really seem to like him.

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Old
02-15-2012, 12:07 AM
  #42
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Geez according some here Malhotra is the whole key to the elaborate deployment of our personal. Like he allows Hodgson to play easy minutes, the Sedins to get offensive time (and I guess is thus responsible for much of the Sedins get done), allows the third and fourth line to function and so on .... beyond that there is no one quicker with a high 5 or a slap on the back than good ole Manny.

You guys criticizing Malhotra have no idea of the intricate and essential cog he is in the mathematical calculus devised by the Canuck brain trust.

And you guys want to criticize him for not being able to push the puck two feet ahead to get it over the blue line

You guys should dig into the stats and you'll discover that Malhotra is, in fact, a hellva of hockey player.
it took you a while but im proud of you. you finally got it

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Old
02-15-2012, 01:16 AM
  #43
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It's hard when you see him have game after game of poor play, I'm not at the point where I cringe when he's on the ice or anything but it's not a stretch to say I'll be there during the playoffs. The tough part is that there just isn't any evidence to suggest he's improving, I hope I'm wrong of course but it feels like one step forward two steps back week after week.

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Old
02-15-2012, 06:29 AM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Outside99 View Post
Manny's stats aren't good at all except for face-off where he's still among the best.

If you look at Malhotra's stats in GA/60, SF and SA/60 (incl. blocked & missed), he has the worst stats among all Canucks forwards by a fairly wide margin. Not only that but those closest to him statistically - Lapierre, Wiese, Volpatti, the 4th line basically - didn't play with him that much. If Malhotra was on the 4th line from the get go (and Lapierre on the 3rd), those stats would most likely be a lot worse.
Those poor stats are mainly due to him being thrown out there for defensive zone faceoffs so much.

Malhotra - 62 offensive zone starts, 422 defensive zone starts = -360 differential
Lapierre - 47 offensive zone starts, 256 defensive zone starts = -209 differential
Weise - 34 offensive zone starts, 162 defensive zone starts = -128 differential

The extra 151 difference in zone starts compared to Lapierre would result in an expected -121 Corsi events, which should be about -5 to +/-.

The extra 232 difference in zone starts compared to Weise results in an expected -186 Corsi events - which should translate into about -8 to +/-.

Compared to a 0 differential player, his zone starts would result in -288 Corsi events - probably another -12 to +/-.

Malhotra's probably a +2 relative to expected +/- as a result.

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02-15-2012, 06:49 AM
  #45
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Malhotra is basically a black hole offensively, above average defensively, and excellent on faceoffs.

Since he's used 7x as much defensively as offensively, his overall contributions are actually above average for an NHL forward. If he wasn't used as much defensively, he'd likely end up being below average.

It probably looks something like this, with 70% being average for an NHL forward:

Offense: 30% (12% weight)
Defense: 80% (88% weight)
Total score: 74%

If he was used equally on offense and defense, it would average out to 55% - which would be pretty poor.

Last year it would be more like:

Offense: 45% (25% weight)
Defense: 90% (75% weight)
Total score: 78.8%

While he was better both ways last year (albeit still very weak offensively for the most part), his overall contributions (adjusted for zone starts) don't really appear to be hugely better since he was used more often on offensive situations (where he's well below average) and less in defensive situations.

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02-15-2012, 08:06 AM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zarpan View Post
Those poor stats are mainly due to him being thrown out there for defensive zone faceoffs so much.

Malhotra - 62 offensive zone starts, 422 defensive zone starts = -360 differential
Lapierre - 47 offensive zone starts, 256 defensive zone starts = -209 differential
Weise - 34 offensive zone starts, 162 defensive zone starts = -128 differential

The extra 151 difference in zone starts compared to Lapierre would result in an expected -121 Corsi events, which should be about -5 to +/-.

The extra 232 difference in zone starts compared to Weise results in an expected -186 Corsi events - which should translate into about -8 to +/-.

Compared to a 0 differential player, his zone starts would result in -288 Corsi events - probably another -12 to +/-.

Malhotra's probably a +2 relative to expected +/- as a result.
Exactly: Malhotra's evolving offensive zone start percentage this season:

Oct: 26.3%
Nov: 16.5%
Dec: 0.09%
Jan: 0.01%

One one-hundredth of a percent! That's insane!

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Old
02-15-2012, 08:09 AM
  #47
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If he did his job and cleared the puck out of our zone in the first place - there wouldn't have been a faceoff in our own zone to begin with. That was the major error. Losing the faceoff wasn't my problem with him on those sequence of plays.
Beyond that Malhotra made a very bad read on the play leading directly to the goal. It was obviously Edler's puck but Malhotra instead of providing Edler an outlet pass went over right next to Edler and then pulled up. He jammed Edler up on the play and left Edler with little other option than to try to fire the puck across to Bitz. If Malhotra had read the situation properly he would have got some separation from Edler and allowed Edler to make the short pass to the middle or maybe try to skate it up himself. As it was Edler had no room to do so. Basically Malhotra boxed off Edler by trying to do Edler's job.

Have to cut Malhotra some slack here as he hasn't played center much lately but he got the spacing all wrong on the play. IMO typified the lack of focus and direction in Malhotra's play this year.

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Old
02-15-2012, 08:51 AM
  #48
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Hes a great team guy and a good presence in the locker room. Is his salary high? Yup but at this point it doesn't really hurt us and I feel he brings more positives to the team than hurt them. Although coho shud be playing 3rd line with Raymond and Hansen over manny.

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02-15-2012, 12:33 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by Zarpan View Post
Those poor stats are mainly due to him being thrown out there for defensive zone faceoffs so much.

Malhotra - 62 offensive zone starts, 422 defensive zone starts = -360 differential
Witchcraft I tell you! Witchcraft!

It hurts my brain to think people can overlook numbers like these or write them off as meaningless. As if there's no difference between 'easy' and 'tough' minutes in a hockey game.

I understand old people didn't get raised with these superior, advanced statistics but come on, how hard is it to realize plus/minus is a grossly incomplete stat. There's a reason a lot of the top defensive forwards in the NHL are minus players - they're put in difficult positions...

Malhotra isn't getting the toughest zone starts in NHL history because AV is blind to how poor a player he is. He gets them to insulate Hodgson and give the top line the best possible chance to produce offense. This is all by design, to say otherwise is just plain ignorant.

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02-15-2012, 12:35 PM
  #50
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Hes a great team guy and a good presence in the locker room. Is his salary high? Yup but at this point it doesn't really hurt us and I feel he brings more positives to the team than hurt them. Although coho shud be playing 3rd line with Raymond and Hansen over manny.
on the Canucks, a team that gets to the cap limit each year can't afford to overpay players. If we had the difference of malhotras salary we could be more aggressive in bettering our team leading into the deadline. Every dollar counts for the Canucks

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