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2012 NHL Entry Draft Talk 3.0

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Old
02-25-2012, 11:12 AM
  #451
onice
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankMTL View Post
I guess this goes to show that pretty much every team has a bust in the first round and that even the best scouts make mistakes, including Timmins.
You know what I find funny is that not too long ago many people on this forum and in the media complained about Timmins' overall drafting. I know Melnick on TSN 990 has complained about the drafting but that could be because he listens to McGuire who has said on a number of times that the Habs didn't draft well.


then when it was shown that overall TT is probably the best head scout in the league for the last 10 years, the complaint became oh well he's great in the later rounds but he sucks in the first rounds.

I think you and I have shown he doesn't suck. Even in the 1st rounds he's an elite head scout.

God, I hope when we replace Gauthier that the new GM doesn't pull a brain fart and replaces TT.

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02-25-2012, 11:17 AM
  #452
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Originally Posted by Commandant View Post
He certainly was especially with how our goaltending was at the time. The "pick was straight off the reservation" per McGuire.

It also went against concensous pick of Brule who was considered to not be a risk.
Him being a risk had nothing to do with our goaltending at the time. Depth at a position has no bearing on how a player turns out. He was a surprise, as experts weren't predicting Montreal to pick him because of their goaltending situation at the time, but most of them were predicting Price to go top 10, and possibly to Ottawa.

So surprising yes, risky, not so much. Scouts predicted he would turn out to be a good goalie as was the top rated goaltender coming into the draft.

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02-25-2012, 11:30 AM
  #453
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Revisionism

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...d.php?t=156288

Heres the reaction to the pick it was hated

My faves

Quote:
Terrible pick. Brule and O'Marra will be stars at the WJC and we will look back on this day as a big mistake.

I had a funny feeling when we got the 5th pick, that we would %&*k it up, and we did.
Quote:
and don't make me cry, they just officially screwed me over, i know this from kastisyn experiance they find a way yo screw over fans, weather. Danis is more then capable of doing the job why do we need another goalie sending wrong message to young goalie.
Quote:
The scarier part of it all is when Timmins was asked why he picked Price he said that was impressed him the most was HIS PLAY WITH THE PUCK. He picked the goalie because he was a great puckhandler?????????????? What the hellllllllllllllllllllll!!!!!!!!!!!! And I'm not mentioning that with the new rules, goalies won't be able to play the puck as they did before. That comment is scary and just proves me that Timmins is no fit for the job. And it seems now that, from Timmins mouth, Melanson is one the best goalie coach of the league.....We're definately in trouble.....I just hope that one day we'll have a bunch of real scouts not old retired players or friends of the family. What are Timmins credentials to have the job he has now????
Quote:
Now that I'm done cursing at my TV Right now, I really hate this pick.

I don't get this "have faith in management" mentality. Yes they are professionals, but they do make (many) mistakes. In this case, to me, it looks like they may have made a mistake. (Of course we'll have to see)

To those who think we shouldn't criticize the pick...why not? Fans can think what they want, and it seems that now a large portion of them disagree with the choice.

Personally I'm very disapointed in this pick. We have goalies in the system and I'm just not a fan of Price. He's got a horrible glove hand, and certainly doesn't seem to have franchise goalie skills. Certainly not skills enough to warrant being no.5. To me he wasen't the BPA. I just don't like him, I've never been overly impressed with him.

Going off the board a bit with Kostitsyn was fine, but this pick is just horrible. Makes no sense whatsoever to me.
oh and

Quote:
this isn't just posters of this board, NO ranking had Price in the top 5.


Last edited by Beakermania*: 02-25-2012 at 12:01 PM.
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02-25-2012, 11:33 AM
  #454
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Commandant View Post
Revisionism

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...d.php?t=156288

Heres the reaction to the pick it was hated
Hahaha, that is an amazing thread! So funny to read all that now and people so pissed about missing Brule or O'Marra or something. Ah, funny stuff. The vitriol is so intense!

I found my post reading through, I feel good knowing I didn't get swept up in the crazy, I like to think I've stayed sane like that to this day when it comes to the Habs, hah.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TroyM
"Haha, I'm not that pissed really. I'm just shocked. If Price can become a good starter then hell why not. I'm recovering already, I just really hope he'll be something special or we look stupid.

This is a crazy ass draft, Sharks taking Setoguchi at 8, Lee by the Sens at 9? Can't wait to see the rest."
And he did, and we certainly do not!

And my next posts a few minutes later:

Quote:
Originally Posted by TroyM
Yeah we have to face that these guys know a LOT more than pretty much all of us. So I think we should just wait and see, and all indications are that Price will be a starter and a damn good one so let's not get too up in arms.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TroyM
I'm glad some people agree, relax people I'm almost positive that no more than 5-10 posters have seen Price play at any regular basis where as Timmins and company CLEARLY believe he will be special and that he was deserving. I guess you all have the right to challenge the selection, but I certainly don't think your comments have any merit. I'm quite excited to see what he becomes quite frankly.


Last edited by TroyM: 02-25-2012 at 11:43 AM.
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02-25-2012, 11:38 AM
  #455
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I don't get all of this lazy talk. How do you get 76 points in 50 games playing with a guy like Frederick Roy, in your first season in North America, and be "lazy"?

Lazy was Angelo Esposito. Look at his impact when Radulov left.

Grigorenko seems to be doing this on his own.

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02-25-2012, 11:41 AM
  #456
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I don't know what happened to O'Marra. Loved that kid.

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02-25-2012, 11:42 AM
  #457
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Also this made me laugh from Whitesnake (who I trust more than most on prospects here and am a big fan of!) just because we know how helpful and impressive he is playing the puck, one of the best in the league for sure, and that it does make a big difference.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitesnake
The scarier part of it all is when Timmins was asked why he picked Price he said that was impressed him the most was HIS PLAY WITH THE PUCK. He picked the goalie because he was a great puckhandler?????????????? What the hellllllllllllllllllllll!!!!!!!!!!!! And I'm not mentioning that with the new rules, goalies won't be able to play the puck as they did before. That comment is scary and just proves me that Timmins is no fit for the job.

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Old
02-25-2012, 11:50 AM
  #458
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Originally Posted by le_sean View Post
I don't get all of this lazy talk. How do you get 76 points in 50 games playing with a guy like Frederick Roy, in your first season in North America, and be "lazy"?

Lazy was Angelo Esposito. Look at his impact when Radulov left.

Grigorenko seems to be doing this on his own.
A lot of people are underestimating Fred Roy's impact at the junior level.

With Grigorenko: 66 pts in 47 games (1.4 pts / game)

Without Grigorenko: 11 pts in 9 games (1.2 pts / game)

It has always been like this for him. In Midget AAA, people were saying he made the team at 15 because of his father. He became their captain in his second season and was named playoffs MVP playing for the league's champions.

He was drafted in the 4th round in the QMJHL and probably wouldn't have been drafted that year if it wasn't for his father. He's currently top 5 in QMJHL scoring.

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02-25-2012, 11:51 AM
  #459
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Commandant View Post
Revisionism

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...d.php?t=156288

Heres the reaction to the pick it was hated



LOL....reading those reactions is hilarious which leads to me think what will happen to this board in June if Timmins drafts a defenseman or a goalie with that top pick?

Will the mob scream for a lynching again?

Oh God we picked Price ahead of Skille, O'Mara AND Brule. Timmins is an idiot. Burn him at the stake.

With 20/20 hindsight I think we should have picked Kopitar. We did have halak.


Funny stuff.

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02-25-2012, 11:52 AM
  #460
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Originally Posted by SergeConstantin74 View Post
A lot of people are underestimating Fred Roy's impact at the junior level.

With Grigorenko: 66 pts in 47 games (1.4 pts / game)

Without Grigorenko: 11 pts in 9 games (1.2 pts / game)
He's an average overager.

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Old
02-25-2012, 11:58 AM
  #461
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Originally Posted by Em Ancien View Post
He's an average overager.
Exactly.

The comparison was what Radulov did for Esposito. Fredric Roy isn't doing the same to inflate Grigorenko's stats.

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02-25-2012, 12:03 PM
  #462
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Commandant View Post
Revisionism

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...d.php?t=156288

Heres the reaction to the pick it was hated

My faves


oh and
Yeah that was classic. I wanted to throw my laptop into the television. It didn't help with McGuire greaking out like that, all it did was piss us off more. If he would have stayed calm, and explained why it was a surprising pick, it wouldn't have been so bad...But he went bezerk instead!

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02-25-2012, 12:04 PM
  #463
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Commandant View Post
Exactly.

The comparison was what Radulov did for Esposito. Fredric Roy isn't doing the same to inflate Grigorenko's stats.
Roy: It depends who you compare him with. Compared to other overagers this season, he's one of the best.

At 17 (Grigorenko's age), Esposito had 79 points playing with Felix Petit and Ruslan Bashkirov. These were good numbers for a 17 yo.

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02-25-2012, 12:12 PM
  #464
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Commandant View Post
Revisionism

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...d.php?t=156288

Heres the reaction to the pick it was hated

haha I remember being so pissed off at the time. I wanted us to pick brule so bad. But in the end it was a solid pick. Timmins is awesome.

Best quote ive read so far was

"It'll be painful to watch Brule play his first season with the Jackets and light it up alongside Zherdev and Nash while we're still uncertain Price will ever be a NHLer." LOL

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02-25-2012, 12:25 PM
  #465
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Everyone's so busy comparing Grigorenko to Lecavalier and Spezza, all because he's 6'3 and a "big playmaking center." I don't actually like the comparison at all, I think he's totally unique.

He's smarter than Spezza, and Lecavalier by quite a bit. He's not as physical or fast as Malkin.

The person who he reminds me of the most is Henrik Sedin...who's 6'3, and scores goals.

There's no one else that I can think of that just dominates to that extent by simply being smarter than everyone else. Also, it more adequately describes his passing game.

Does Henrik Sedin have "compete" issues?

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02-25-2012, 12:41 PM
  #466
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Originally Posted by NotProkofievian View Post
Everyone's so busy comparing Grigorenko to Lecavalier and Spezza, all because he's 6'3 and a "big playmaking center." I don't actually like the comparison at all, I think he's totally unique.

He's smarter than Spezza, and Lecavalier by quite a bit. He's not as physical or fast as Malkin.

The person who he reminds me of the most is Henrik Sedin...who's 6'3, and scores goals.

There's no one else that I can think of that just dominates to that extent by simply being smarter than everyone else. Also, it more adequately describes his passing game.

Does Henrik Sedin have "compete" issues?
What about Thornton?

And I can see a similar issue to what got Bruins fans to turn on Thornton. For some reason everyone thinks that every guy well over 6' tall needs to be a rough power forward type, and if they aren't a banger they must be "soft". It's the same way Yashin got a reputation for being soft.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with being a finesse player, but so many Habs fans are so insecure about the toughness issue that they are going to expect him to use his size to overpower people, even if it's not his game. Yakupov, Galchenyuk and Forsberg are all more physical than Grigorenko. I'm not saying that's all that matters, but it is what it is.

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02-25-2012, 12:48 PM
  #467
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What about Thornton?

And I can see a similar issue to what got Bruins fans to turn on Thornton. For some reason everyone thinks that every guy well over 6' tall needs to be a rough power forward type, and if they aren't a banger they must be "soft". It's the same way Yashin got a reputation for being soft.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with being a finesse player, but so many Habs fans are so insecure about the toughness issue that they are going to expect him to use his size to overpower people, even if it's not his game. Yakupov, Galchenyuk and Forsberg are all more physical than Grigorenko. I'm not saying that's all that matters, but it is what it is.
It's not like he doesn't use his size at all. He uses it to handle the physical play that the checkers assigned to him use, and to protect the puck. Don't get me wrong, he'll hit a guy. But it's not for show, it's to get the puck. That is a good centreman to have lining up between Patches and Cole

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02-25-2012, 12:49 PM
  #468
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Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
What about Thornton?

And I can see a similar issue to what got Bruins fans to turn on Thornton. For some reason everyone thinks that every guy well over 6' tall needs to be a rough power forward type, and if they aren't a banger they must be "soft". It's the same way Yashin got a reputation for being soft.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with being a finesse player, but so many Habs fans are so insecure about the toughness issue that they are going to expect him to use his size to overpower people, even if it's not his game. Yakupov, Galchenyuk and Forsberg are all more physical than Grigorenko. I'm not saying that's all that matters, but it is what it is.
I specifically excluded thornton because, while being one of the best playmakers of the last decade, his style of playmaking is very different from Grigorenko, and Henrik. Thornton uses his immense size and puck-control to create ridiculous amounts of space. He actually makes relatively few "wait...how the **** did you do that" kind of passes. Whereas, Henrik does it almost every game.

Henrik is dominant purely and only because of his smarts and passing skills.

I think that Grigorenko plays the game like he does, but I also think that he has more skills at his disposal than Henrik, most notably, his shot, one timer, and stick handling.

He's quite a goal-scorer, actually. I think he'll be a 30+ goal presence in the NHL pretty easily.

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02-25-2012, 01:27 PM
  #469
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Grigorenko's hatty last night.

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02-25-2012, 01:31 PM
  #470
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SergeConstantin74 View Post
Roy: It depends who you compare him with. Compared to other overagers this season, he's one of the best.

At 17 (Grigorenko's age), Esposito had 79 points playing with Felix Petit and Ruslan Bashkirov. These were good numbers for a 17 yo.


Esposito's problem is that he was as good as 16 that he was at 19. No progression at all.

F.Roy is a great partner for Grigorenko, he works so hard that it's contagious.


About Brule, he was our chance to grab a real offensive star, our first since the 80s. He was seen as the #2 guy coming in that season and it was a surprise to see him at #5.

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02-25-2012, 01:45 PM
  #471
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Originally Posted by Beatnik View Post
Esposito's problem is that he was as good as 16 that he was at 19. No progression at all.

F.Roy is a great partner for Grigorenko, he works so hard that it's contagious.


About Brule, he was our chance to grab a real offensive star, our first since the 80s. He was seen as the #2 guy coming in that season and it was a surprise to see him at #5.
Brule ended up as a real star allright

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02-25-2012, 02:02 PM
  #472
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Originally Posted by Beatnik View Post

F.Roy is a great partner for Grigorenko, he works so hard that it's contagious.
Exactly.

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02-25-2012, 02:05 PM
  #473
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Brule ended up as a real star allright
He hasn't panned out, but if it wasn't for Columbus and injuries, he'd probably have rounded out as a 30-30 2-way guy.

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02-25-2012, 02:13 PM
  #474
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beatnik View Post
Esposito's problem is that he was as good as 16 that he was at 19. No progression at all.

F.Roy is a great partner for Grigorenko, he works so hard that it's contagious.


About Brule, he was our chance to grab a real offensive star, our first since the 80s. He was seen as the #2 guy coming in that season and it was a surprise to see him at #5.

it's funny how the professional scouts seem to be able to see that better than the rest of us here.

And to be fair, that year I was hoping Montreal was going to draft Pouliot or Kopitar. oops

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02-25-2012, 02:14 PM
  #475
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Brule ended up as a real star allright
Seems to me like.......
*puts on sunglasses*
his star has burned out, alright (son étoile a brûlé).


yeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhh

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