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2012 NHL Entry Draft Talk 3.0

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02-26-2012, 02:57 AM
  #526
Habitant#1
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I'd love a centre, but if the BPA is a D then I'm more than OK with it. I'd rather get a #1 D than a 2nd line centre (hypothetically). If the BPA is a centre, I'll pop out the champagne. If not, then no biggie. If we're stacked on D prospects then we can trade one for help up front (ideally only after we know what they can do).

I understand that our need for the last 15-20 years has been that big physical centre, but I don't think any of the players in this draft would really address that in the next 2 seasons.

Needs change quickly anyway. Who knows, maybe on June 30th 2013 Crosby and Gatzlaf meet at a party and decide they want to bring a cup to Montreal and call up the Habs the next day! [OK, no one really think that'll happen but my point is made!]

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02-26-2012, 07:37 AM
  #527
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all i know is that i trust timmins' picks more than you lot's

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02-26-2012, 07:48 AM
  #528
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TSN had a Feb. 23 article on players moving up and down in eyes of NHL scouts and Grigs was heading down due to a perceived lack of competitiveness. On the one hand this spooks me because we need to be right with our draft pick and Id sleep easier if there was consensus ( I know it doesnt guarantee anything, but it means something ) about the players where we are drafting. On the other hand, Timmins has been awesome in his picks and I know we should have complete faith in him. That being the case, differences of opinion could let a player slide to us who time will show ought to have been drafted higher. Still, Im nervous, we cant draft an AK ( I know, one not great call ), if we pick right and bolster our D we could be competing this year.

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02-26-2012, 10:52 AM
  #529
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When drafting in the top three players teams need to have a GM and scouts that are able to project how good players will be 3-6 years from draft day.In 1971 the players had to be 20 years old to qualify for the draft.Guy Lafleur was drafted #1 and he was born on Sept.20 1951 when he joined the Habs.In his first month in the NHL he turned 21yrs.old and his game took three years to translate to the pros,in this era of hockey players are expected to join a team and star at 18yrs.old.Some players may need the extra couple of years to reach those lofty expectations.Our GM Gauthier and Head Scout Timmins are regarded as two of the best at projecting the ceiling for these players.Knowing that this is their forte then the Habs with a lottery pick position should be able to choose the player that long term will be the best choice.I'm glad they have the responsibility and I think the future of the Habs is in great hands.Yakyupov,Grigorenko,Dumba,Galchenyuk or Faksa whoever they choose will one day soon star in a Habs uniform and will help lead them to the Stanley Cup.

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02-26-2012, 12:21 PM
  #530
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterDecoy View Post
all i know is that i trust timmins' picks more than you lot's
We'd be in a better position if I was drafting for us in the first round. After that, yeah, Timmins all the way.

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02-26-2012, 01:48 PM
  #531
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Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
We'd be in a better position if I was drafting for us in the first round. After that, yeah, Timmins all the way.
Ok, so tell me who you would have drafted instead of:

2007 : McDonaugh
Paccioretty
2008 : N/A
2009 : Leblanc
2010 : Tinordi
2011 : Beaulieu

I can't see how you can beat Timmins the last 5 drafts (before yes).

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02-26-2012, 01:55 PM
  #532
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Originally Posted by dcal64 View Post
Ok, so tell me who you would have drafted instead of:

2007 : McDonaugh
Paccioretty
2008 : N/A
2009 : Leblanc
2010 : Tinordi
2011 : Beaulieu

I can't see how you can beat Timmins the last 5 drafts (before yes).
2007: Props
2008: N/A
2009: Ryan O'reilly or Simon Després
2010: With Després in the system, Evgeny Kuznetsov or Charlie Coyle
2011: Beaulieu is a gift from above
2012: Grigorenko instead of Yakupov

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02-26-2012, 02:06 PM
  #533
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Originally Posted by Jabba11 View Post
2007: Props
2008: N/A
2009: Ryan O'reilly or Simon Després
2010: With Després in the system, Evgeny Kuznetsov or Charlie Coyle
2011: Beaulieu is a gift from above
2012: Grigorenko instead of Yakupov
You would have to be a brave man to say Ryan O'Reilly in front of a packed Bell Centre chanting Louis Louis.

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02-26-2012, 02:11 PM
  #534
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You would have to be a brave man to say Ryan O'Reilly in front of a packed Bell Centre chanting Louis Louis.
Sometimes us fans don't know as much as the scouting director and his team. We tend to believe it but sometimes it's not the case. I will be honest, in 2007, I was really hoping for David Perron instead of the Pacioretty pick, but today, I wouldn't trade Pacioretty for Perron straight up. The thing is, if we had Després in our prospect pool, we could have target a forward instead of Tinordi. I think that Timmins did scout a lot Charlie Coyle and this kid is the best thing out of the Setoguchi and Burns trade. Kuznetsov..is there anything else to say about him?

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02-26-2012, 02:13 PM
  #535
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Hindsight is the best GM of all time.

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02-26-2012, 02:14 PM
  #536
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dcal64 View Post
Ok, so tell me who you would have drafted instead of:

2007 : McDonaugh
Paccioretty
2008 : N/A
2009 : Leblanc
2010 : Tinordi
2011 : Beaulieu

I can't see how you can beat Timmins the last 5 drafts (before yes).
2006: patrik Berglund
2007: McDonagh and patches (seriously)
2008: We had no first in 2008, I wouldve taken Deschamps (busting)
2009: Kreider or osefson
2010: Evgeni Kuznetsov
2011: I would've taken Beaulieu, did not think he would drop to us, I wanted Zibanead and Scheifele, both went higher than our pick, so if Beaulieu wasnt there, I would've taken Mark McNeill.

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02-26-2012, 02:20 PM
  #537
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2007: Angelo Esposito (so sue me)
2008: N/A
2009: Leblanc
2010: Quinton Howden
2011: Beaulieu
2012: Grigorenko and maybe Gaunce if we can get a later pick.

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Old
02-26-2012, 03:03 PM
  #538
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Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
If that happened with the first four picks (I doubt). I'd take Trouba. I want nothing to do with Murray. Dumba would be redundant with Subban (they do play VERY similar, Dumba may have higher upside but whatevs).
Dumba really does look like Subban 2.0--similar game, skillset, passion, drive, size, with maybe an upgrade in hockey sense, more leadership ability (captained Canada's Ivan Hlinka team and is an alternate captain in Red Deer at 17), and more hitting/fighting ability--so I definitely know what you mean about redundancy. However, Subban is a tough minute, minute eating defenseman with star potential. Sometimes you want a little built in redundancy, and if it comes in the form of tough minute, minute eating defensemen with star potential, I'll take it every day of the week.

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02-26-2012, 03:11 PM
  #539
Et le But
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Would 2 Subbans really be a bad thing? Especially considering Dumba projects to be a slightly more poised Subban with a higher upside?

Of the three, Dumba is the most appealing to me. Murray and Trouba don't convince me.

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02-26-2012, 03:16 PM
  #540
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I just know that if PG and or BG are still making decisions for the Habs come June 22nd, if we fall out of the top 3 picks( even top 2 to a certain extend) that a D will be picked as its has always be their mentality to pick the best player available regardless of the position they play.

I honestly understand that theory but we I think our top 4 d are set for the years as opposed to a top 6 foward in our system...with the exception of possibly Leblanc, Gallagher, Geoffrion. all of witch could possibly be carreer 3rd liners

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02-26-2012, 03:20 PM
  #541
Et le But
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Originally Posted by pezcore View Post
I just know that if PG and or BG are still making decisions for the Habs come June 22nd, if we fall out of the top 3 picks( even top 2 to a certain extend) that a D will be picked as its has always be their mentality to pick the best player available regardless of the position they play.

I honestly understand that theory but we I think our top 4 d are set for the years as opposed to a top 6 foward in our system...with the exception of possibly Leblanc, Gallagher, Geoffrion. all of witch could possibly be carreer 3rd liners
If we miss out on the 4 high end forwards but Murray/Dumba/Trouba are still there, it's just too much of a leap no to take them. While there's a lot of other appealing forward prospects (Girgensons, Collberg, Gauce, Faksa, Gauce, etc), it's hard to justify reaching like that. Drafting for need over BPA is how must busts happen. If all our D prospects work out we can trade one or more for forwards in a few years.

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02-26-2012, 03:24 PM
  #542
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Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
If we miss out on the 4 high end forwards but Murray/Dumba/Trouba are still there, it's just too much of a leap no to take them. While there's a lot of other appealing forward prospects (Girgensons, Collberg, Gauce, Faksa, Gauce, etc), it's hard to justify reaching like that. Drafting for need over BPA is how must busts happen. If all our D prospects work out we can trade one or more for forwards in a few years.
Exactly.. my list looks like this..

1. Yakupov
2. Grigorenko
3. Galchenyuk (He could overtake Grigorenko if he returns to action and I see what I like after the injury).
4. Forsberg
5. Trouba
6. Dumba
7: Trade down (don't want Murray)

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02-26-2012, 03:26 PM
  #543
Et le But
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Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
Exactly.. my list looks like this..

1. Yakupov
2. Grigorenko
3. Galchenyuk (He could overtake Grigorenko if he returns to action and I see what I like after the injury).
4. Forsberg
5. Trouba
6. Dumba
7: Trade down (don't want Murray)
I would agree with that mostly, maybe Galchenyuk over Grigorenko but it depends on the prognosis when he returns, and I'd pick Dumba over Trouba. Murray doesn't appeal to me, anyone after Forsberg it's worth considering trading down for the right offer IMO, though I like Dumba a lot.

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02-26-2012, 03:29 PM
  #544
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The odds of missing out on all 4 of the forwards are very low, IMO.

If we don't have a top 4 pick, it likely means a team like the NYI is picking ahead of us, logic says the Isles would grab a defenceman. So even at 5, one of the 4 forwards should be available. At 6 it gets a bit dicey, but if TB is ahead of us, they'll also very likely pick a d-man.

Speaking of TB, they win in NJ, they go 4 points up on us and since they have so many more ROW's, it's basically 5 points.

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02-26-2012, 03:42 PM
  #545
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The odds of missing out on all 4 of the forwards are very low, IMO.

If we don't have a top 4 pick, it likely means a team like the NYI is picking ahead of us, logic says the Isles would grab a defenceman. So even at 5, one of the 4 forwards should be available. At 6 it gets a bit dicey, but if TB is ahead of us, they'll also very likely pick a d-man.

Speaking of TB, they win in NJ, they go 4 points up on us and since they have so many more ROW's, it's basically 5 points.
Yeah, I agree with this, most of the teams in a position to be worse than us have deeper forward and defense pools and downright terrible defenses to begin with. Every forward except Yakupov has questions so a team like the Isles, Oilers or Tampa has plenty of reasons to consider one of the defenders.

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02-26-2012, 04:37 PM
  #546
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
Yeah, I agree with this, most of the teams in a position to be worse than us have deeper forward and defense pools and downright terrible defenses to begin with. Every forward except Yakupov has questions so a team like the Isles, Oilers or Tampa has plenty of reasons to consider one of the defenders.
Edmonton is taking Murray. I can't see them justifying another forward with Hall, Eberle, Nugent-Hopkins, Paajarvi, Lander etc. etc.

Murray while I am not a big fan, could play in the NHL next year and would be better than mostly anyone on their D.

Columbus is taking Yakupov.
Carolina will take Forsberg (I'd have to think)
Buffalo will definitely covet Grigorenko.

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02-26-2012, 05:02 PM
  #547
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Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
Edmonton is taking Murray. I can't see them justifying another forward with Hall, Eberle, Nugent-Hopkins, Paajarvi, Lander etc. etc.

Murray while I am not a big fan, could play in the NHL next year and would be better than mostly anyone on their D.

Columbus is taking Yakupov.
Carolina will take Forsberg (I'd have to think)
Buffalo will definitely covet Grigorenko.
I agree that edmonton will be hard pressed not to take a dman. How much would it cost to keep eberle, hall, Rnh and possibly grigorenko? All of those could run 6million each, good luck building a defense without one top pairing dman.

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02-26-2012, 05:09 PM
  #548
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Edmonton is taking Murray. I can't see them justifying another forward with Hall, Eberle, Nugent-Hopkins, Paajarvi, Lander etc. etc.

Murray while I am not a big fan, could play in the NHL next year and would be better than mostly anyone on their D.

Columbus is taking Yakupov.
Carolina will take Forsberg (I'd have to think)
Buffalo will definitely covet Grigorenko.
If we end up with a shot at Grigorenko then we should offer a trade with Buffalo where we swap 1sts and get Kassian in return. If Galchenyuk or Forsberg are still available then we grab one of them and if they are gone we will still get a very good prospect.

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02-26-2012, 05:09 PM
  #549
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Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
Yeah, I agree with this, most of the teams in a position to be worse than us have deeper forward and defense pools and downright terrible defenses to begin with. Every forward except Yakupov has questions so a team like the Isles, Oilers or Tampa has plenty of reasons to consider one of the defenders.
NYI has a great forward and defense group of prospect and youngster.
I think they will likely go BPA. Yet it's true that they could use elite talent Ala Dumba, Trouba and Murray .(Who wouldn't ?)

But for the other two it would be incredibly retarded to go with a forward. Especially a Center has TBL has stammer, Connely and Namestnikov and Edmonton with RNH, Gagner and lander they are pretty solid down the middle (Not TBL solid tho..)

Anyway, I think we'll finish 3rd or 2nd so that give's us 4th pick ...
there's 4 good forward

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02-26-2012, 05:13 PM
  #550
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If we end up with a shot at Grigorenko then we should offer a trade with Buffalo where we swap 1sts and get Kassian in return. If Galchenyuk or Forsberg are still available then we grab one of them and if they are gone we will still get a very good prospect.
And then we pick Forsberg ?

So we end up with kassian plus forsberg instead of Grigo ?


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