Well this is a funny turn of events. All of the talk about the top teams in the OUA being in the bottom part of the AUS and yet, two OUA teams eliminated the two TOP teams from the AUS.
I hope this quiets down the AUS bias saying that it is that much better. As of right now (on paper), the OUA is the strongest league with the final both consisting of OUA teams.
In response to saying that McGill's division is extremely weak, I totally disagree. It consists of them, UQTR, Ottawa, Concordia and Carleton. One of the best divisions in Canada in my opinion as there are no easy games. Hence, why McGill had so many one goal games. I do admit that the bottom teams of the OUA are not a high caliber.
Excited for the final tomorrow and I'm curious for what the attendance will be.
Sigh. Are you deliberately trolling the AUS hockey fans, or just over-excited at the turn of events this week?
The top 2 teams in the OUA have done well at the University Cup this week, and yes, they'll get gold and silver. Western and McGill deserve congratulations. But most experienced CIS fans are not going to extrapolate that as suddenly meaning that "(on paper) the OUA is the strongest league". I may be wrong, but most of us base "strength of conference" on a few more factors than the fact that McGill and Western each won a game vs. an AUS team this week.
But sure, they've had a good week. And the OUA will have it's first University Cup since their three-year run in 2001-03 with UQTR-Western-UQTR. But you do remember that since then Alberta won it three times and three different AUS teams - StFX, SMU & UNB - won it the other five years.
I think it is a bit of a leap yet to start putting teams like Ottawa, Carleton and Concordia on the same level as AUS and Canada West teams just because they might have won a few games against McGill, Western or UQTR. The rare times they play exhitition games outside out of the OUA, they haven't done well.
I'll stop. I realize now I'm probably not going to convince you. And it's been a long week and my personal logic engine is not at its best.
Welcome to the board.
Last edited by FreddtFoyle: 03-25-2012 at 08:41 AM.
Yes, I did. UQTR had a very strong final 8 minutes of the first period, in part fueled by a powerplay. That's what accounted for the disparity in shots on goal. Otherwise, it was an even game with lots of flow both ways. I'd say chances at both ends were pretty much even. Unice was good, but so was Nadeau. Either team could have won, but I don't think UQTR was any more deserving to win the game than Western.
What's even more fascinating to me is that McGill was diminished on this board all year, and now all of a sudden there's a love-in for them. If you don't believe me, go back and look at some of the discussions on Holly's top 34's.
We obviously saw the UQTR-Western game differently. Just because Clarke Singer said in the postgame that most of the Patriotes shots came on the power play doesn't mean that UQTR didn't have more good scoring chances in the game than Western did. They did. Unice was very good when he had to be, and had to make more big saves than Nadeau. Western squeaked out an overtime win against UQTR with the Patriotes carrying more of the play in the game and the Mustangs playing a very solid team defence structure. That's the way most of the media saw it in Fredericton, and I guess as well how most of the fans who were at the game and then posted here on the board saw it too.
The UQTR bias in the game perhaps also comes from watching les Patriotes rebound from a thumping from UNB in difficult playing conditions (due to the record heat) to play their hearts out against a rested Mustangs team the next night.
You have a guy who has two posts being deliberately antagonistic.
As an experienced forum agitator (I don't like the term troll, because I don't troll people), it's definitely got all the signs of an attempt to troll.
Let's not forget that McGill was a 1-1 finalist, capitalizing on a Moncton team that dug themselves into a hole early via penalties and making it to the final on a tiebreaker, and Western had to take the OUA wildcard to OT after getting out-shot and out-played for three periods. They got clutch goaltending in two games and put up one strong period against UNB.
One of these teams will be the CIS champion, and if that speaks to the improved strength of the OUA (or at least the OUA's top teams), that's fantastic and what I want to see in the CIS (anything that generates buzz about the league and makes the league look better is what I want to see), but they didn't exactly provide a dominating performance as have past champions (in the OUA or otherwise). You're not justified in gloating quite yet.
Well this is a funny turn of events. All of the talk about the top teams in the OUA being in the bottom part of the AUS and yet, two OUA teams eliminated the two TOP teams from the AUS.
I hope this quiets down the AUS bias saying that it is that much better. As of right now (on paper), the OUA is the strongest league with the final both consisting of OUA teams.
In response to saying that McGill's division is extremely weak, I totally disagree. It consists of them, UQTR, Ottawa, Concordia and Carleton. One of the best divisions in Canada in my opinion as there are no easy games. Hence, why McGill had so many one goal games. I do admit that the bottom teams of the OUA are not a high caliber.
Excited for the final tomorrow and I'm curious for what the attendance will be.
It is much better (AUS) and the best team just lost. Look at the results of the last 5 University Cup's and that's all the proof you need. Top OUA teams in Western and McGill are learning from there U Cup experience and have built on it. How many years has McGill been in the University cup as of late, 6 straight years or so?
It's a one game knock out and McGill is dam'n lucky that they have advanced with losing to Saskatchewan on Saturday. Alberta is the only team since 98 to advance with a loss in 2008.
They have 3 teams in the tournament, and yes they are rewarded this year with 2 teams in the final.
But it's McGill, or Western for the last few years with no one else, but a wild card berth going to UQTR. Out of all those years, how much success have they had at the National stage?
To say the league is the best, your hockey brain is in pre-school mode!
Western has played better In this tournament, but McGill has had their number in the Queens Cup, so if we see the same opportunistic team that we saw last night, with discipline and physical upside, they can beat the Redmen.
Give credit to Western and McGill. Both teams have veteran players who up until this week had lost the big games at the University Cup. You learn a lot from that experience, and it certainly makes you hungry.
Western's Kevin Baker last week said he was "tired of seeing Red" as he had twice had his season ended by UNB. McGill's Verrault-Paul talked about his teammates progression at the University Cup: first losing twice, then winning a game, then winning two, and now hoping to win three.
I firmly believe you learn to win by first losing. Western and McGill have certainly learned some lessons in recent years at Nationals, particularly the Mustangs with their new unselfish committment to team defence in their zone (and that always works better with a hot goalie).
As for last night's game? The fans at the AUC didn't help by mostly sitting on their hands waiting for something to happen. Their nervous quiet tension probably didn't help the UNB bench. The V-Reds players talked about "waiting for a spark" that didn't come until the third period. They took responsibility for not executing in the first two periods. Western certainly did execute. They converted a lucky bounce off a UNB defenceman's chest into a goal. They executed on the five-on-three powerplay. And they took advantage of a puck skipping over a defenceman's stick to execute on the breakaway (perhaps not Fullerton's finest moment, but he was solid otherwise). After that all the purple jerseys spent most of the night in front of Unice denying time and space to the UNB shooters.
Last edited by FreddtFoyle: 03-25-2012 at 09:05 AM.
As for last night's game? The fans at the AUC didn't help by mostly sitting on their hands waiting for something to happen. Their nervous quiet tension probably didn't help the UNB bench.
In my experience, the fans at UNB games always sit on their hands until the first goal gets in. Then the energy level and noise level picks up. It was the same way last year, aside from the odd cheer during a stoppage or prior to puck drop. I mean, you go to a concert (Dr. Hook, Trooper, April Wine, whoever) at the Playhouse and everyone stays in their seats nearly the entire show. It's just Fredericton being Fredericton. A city full of unsophisticated people who think they're sophisticated (and I say that having lived here for 22 years now).
When the Squirrels lose the posts here become much more interesting.
Blaming the fans, that is a new one, I must admit. Give me a break. It's 3 - 0 before they know it and most of the fans are casual hockey goers.
Talk about lucky goals, Harty was out of this world lucky to get UNB on the board at all. Bailey's (???) stick breaks on the shot and the shot turns into a precision pass. Lucky X 1000000000 and way more lucky then anything Western scored.
How many chances did Western muff up? At least 4, so if they score just a quarter of those kiss UNB's season goodbye earlier.
It's a one game knock out championship, odds are good there will be upsets from time to time. UNB upset Alberta 8 or 9 years ago, Laurier over Moncton, UNB over Moncton, Alberta over UNB, Western over Saint Mary's etc. etc.
As for the OUA guys, they can have an opinion too. Just because Foyle says they are flaming, doesn't make them that. You rant and rave about UNB so much that everyone knows you as a Squirrel lover and then guise yourself as a total CIS guy. UNB first, CIS second. You prove it time and time and time and time again. I'm not picking a fight with you, it is the truth. Doesn't mean your evil either (well maybe to me ) but you certainly have a disproportionate share of bias. The OUA guys are defending their league and they are justly proud right now. Good for them, I am proud of them too. Nice to see someone new win this year.
For the record GO WESTERN and Pat Powers, a huge Squirrel H8TR!!!
In my experience, the fans at UNB games always sit on their hands until the first goal gets in. Then the energy level and noise level picks up. It was the same way last year, aside from the odd cheer during a stoppage or prior to puck drop.
And remember last year UNB never trailed at any point in the tournament so I don't think the fans were ever really nervous (maybe the Calgary game when it looked like it was going to OT, but UNB was carrying the play pretty good at that point). It might sound obvious but the first goal yesterday was enormous...if UNB got the first one I would be willing to bet they would have won without much drama.
Hey, it is great that the OUA finally delivers at the University Cup for the first time in nine years. And yes, I do believe it is good for the CIS that we've got a couple of battle-tested OUA teams playing on national television. God knows we could use some media coverage of CIS hockey in central Canada.
And I did give "Play On" the benefit of the doubt in the first sentence of my post. Others didn't. But then whatever I write gets viewed through different filters by some, and I get that.
Lots of people get excited when the champion gets knocked off. I get that too. That's part of the fun of sports. When one team wins a lot it is great for their fans and not so for fans of their opponents. And I get the schadenfreude that the largest cohort of posters here on HF are UNB fans, and now they are expected to take the barbs from fans of other teams who have had less to cheer for the last few years.
And I guess I should expect some to take advantage of the situation to personalize their gripes. Have at it. I really would like to celebrate a Tommies win some day. Really. Truthfully. Someday.
I hope this quiets down the AUS bias saying that it is that much better. As of right now (on paper), the OUA is the strongest league with the final both consisting of OUA teams.
In response to saying that McGill's division is extremely weak, I totally disagree. It consists of them, UQTR, Ottawa, Concordia and Carleton. One of the best divisions in Canada in my opinion as there are no easy games. Hence, why McGill had so many one goal games. I do admit that the bottom teams of the OUA are not a high caliber.
Just because there are no easy games doesn't mean it is one of the best divisions in Canada. It may be one of the more competitive divisions in the country but there is a difference between a competitive division and a strong one. A division consisting entirely of average teams would be competitive, but would it be stronger than one featuring the top team in the country/4 or 5 above average teams/a couple of below-average teams? I don't think so. Having said that, it does seem the OUA East has narrowed the gap with the OUA West in recent years though, or even passing them after this year.
Honestly, most of the OUA teams I have seen UNB play over the past few years have not put up much of a fight outside of the odd game (usually at Nationals). The game yesterday was the first time UNB has lost to an OUA team in regulation in 9 years (they had an OT/SO loss to Lakehead 5 or 6 years ago). They have lost three times to OUA teams in the last 15 years (yesterday, the Lakehead game, and to UQTR in the 2003 semi-finals which interestingly was also at the AUC)....and they have played quite a few games (30+) against a wide array of teams during that span and annual top contenders like UQTR/McGill/Lakehead quite often.
I believe the top 3 or 4 OUA teams can match up fairly well with the top CW and AUS teams but I think after that there is quite a drop off. The conference top to bottom isn't as strong as the AUS or CW IMO.
Last edited by UNB Bruins Fan: 03-25-2012 at 11:49 AM.
When the Squirrels lose the posts here become much more interesting.
Blaming the fans, that is a new one, I must admit. Give me a break. It's 3 - 0 before they know it and most of the fans are casual hockey goers.
Man, how you love to take stuff out of context and twist it. I said "The fans at the AUC didn't help by mostly sitting on their hands waiting for something to happen ..." As in not giving them a lift or a boost or a push or acting as an extra player or however else most people describe a helpful partisan crowd. I never blamed the fans for the loss as you're gloriously trying to imply on Twitter.
And what I didn't say, and will add now, is that the yahoos that broke that glass next to the Western bench certainly took a lot out of UNB's momentum after their first goal.
Last edited by FreddtFoyle: 03-25-2012 at 12:10 PM.
Reason: yahoo
Yeah, I was discussing with the people around me how that might have been a momentum sapper. It didn't really look to be, but it could have been.
I'm glad to see our resident STU guy hasn't changed at all, for what it's worth. We need someone trying to put outlandish spin on everything. It makes it that much more entertaining. Of course, we've had enough of that in recent posts, what with the spin regarding some of our posts re: OUA teams, but hey, if this is what it takes to get OUA fans posting here, I'll bite my tongue for a bit.
Edit: Unrelated, but if this league was more popular in Canada, I imagine this would be just like following the Leafs, in that I'd be having to deal with more people celebrating the fact that UNB lost than the fact that McGill and Western advanced, so this year, I'm glad it's not.
All credit to the Urban Cowboys and McGilligutties for advancing. But the tournament format makes this possible. In the end, the OUA will be 2-1 against the AUS and 0-1 against the CW, or 2-2 outside the conference. So while it is better than usual we need not go overboard.
Bunch of people trying to get rid of their tickets on Kijiji. Some are asking for a rediculous amount of money. Goodluck to those people. I'm expecting a decent crowd tonight, probably similar to the Friday night game or saturday morning game.
Anybody who has watched the tournament knows that UNB was unquestionably on another level then the other schools at the University Cup.
Western played a smart game and capitalized on the tournament format, but realistically does anyone think for a second that UNB would lose a best-of-five to the Mustangs?
The speed and skill of the VReds attack and the structure and process in which they play is unmatched in the CIS...but in a one-shot deal anything can happen.
Trust me I have this happen over and over again at the University Cup.
Alberta won back-to-back in '99 and '00 but in my opinion were not on another level then the other schools.
From 2000-01 to 2005-06 I think the Golden Bears were...but they got upset along the way...including back in 2002 at the University Cup by Western losing a game 4-1 despite outshooting them 38-17.
And people in Fredericton will tell you to this day that the V-Reds upset of then undefeated Bears in the 2004 Nationals remains one of the greatest upsets ever in University Cup History.
Since 2007 UNB has had the best team, winning three titles and losing a couple along the way in dramatic fashion.
The V-Reds are now being chased, so when they get knocked off it is a big deal.
But yesterday's result does not for a second suddenly legitimize the OUA as the toughest Conference in the CIS.
Man, how you love to take stuff out of context and twist it. I said "The fans at the AUC didn't help by mostly sitting on their hands waiting for something to happen ..." As in not giving them a lift or a boost or a push or acting as an extra player or however else most people describe a helpful partisan crowd. I never blamed the fans for the loss as you're gloriously trying to imply on Twitter.
And what I didn't say, and will add now, is that the yahoos that broke that glass next to the Western bench certainly took a lot out of UNB's momentum after their first goal.
Isn't context great. Means one thing to the writer and another thing to the reader.
Dave, not disagreeing with you one bit. Momentum killer big time but those UNB fans had rocked that glass 20 times before and nothing happened. Then bang, fate dealt a blow to UNB. I remember what Troy Ryan said after our last game at the AUC this year...something about the hockey Gods not looking fondly on teams that like to call time outs when they are up 4 or 5 goals going to the powerplay late in a game. I think he said it would come back to haunt UNB.....was that glass breaking a way of evening things up? Karma is a boomerang. You reap what you sow....
I have to say when I heard Wiebe was in a fight outside a bar and broke his ankle. I was pissed and wondered how a guy could be so stupid with a tournament of magnitude that very weak I lost a little respect for him. But talking to a close friend of his before the unb UQTR game a different scenario happen. Their was a female being shoved by a drunk male outside the bar and wiebe stuck up for the woman by laying the guy out in one punch. As fate would have it he took a step back and rolled his ankle by fluke. I can respect any guy who sticks up for a woman so kudos to wiebe. But man you were surely missed.
From my vantage point in the comfy chair in front of the TV it appeared, at least the first period, that the VReds were not prepared to play, probably looking forward to the final. The sports analysts talk about players or teams being guilty of "reading their own highlight clippings" and that could have been the situation here, for every Ali there will be a Joe Frazier. Complacency would be a natural reaction from both the players and in particular the coaching staff whose job it is to establish the mindset for the game, unfortunately Western was better prepared and much more hungry than a UNB team who had already "been there, done that". The entire UNB team had already been christened National Champs so what more did they have to prove. They have earned their reputation as an elite hockey team and some will be moving on and perhaps it is time for MacDougall to move on to a level of the game where his passion can be rekindled where he won't make the mistake of taking a semi-final game for granted. It's now in the past.
Once again we aren't that different after all. So would I!!!
There would be pleased ty of valid opinions as to why McGill and Western has made it through to.The Gold Medal game SUNDAY.
McGill last year's finalists learns a few things from.losing last year AND improved on that and deserve tombs there,as did UWO,they have been riding a hot goaltender throughout their playoff run with UNICE and also.deserves to be there.
There are more elite teams in the country now and GOOD for the CIS.
I watched McGill.beat UWO in the Queens CUP but Western is playing better team hockey now so should be a good game.
I,my rooting for former Tommies defenceman to.win the Cup.as a coach.
Last edited by rantfather: 03-25-2012 at 03:01 PM.
Reason: Spelling error
Couple of good points made by the 'Hound. I was thinking the same myself, having seen it first hand in T-Bay with UWO "upsetting" SMU. Not saying the players were thinking like that, but subconsciously they possibly were. I was one of the many who thought UNB would win by three or more, but as the game wore on and UWO filled the shooting and passing lanes, it didn't look all that certain.
Still, with less than five to go, I felt that UNB could pull it off and they nearly did. Credit to UWO for their efforts. Kind of torn picking a winner tonight. I like UWO but it would be neat to see McGill make history, similar to SMU two years ago. But I don't like Nobes.
As far as Gardiner moving up the food chain, I can't see that happening. He has a winning formula in UNB and his methods work here. The pro level is different and I can't see those guys buying into the plan. Pro teams have good and bad players and you can't just stock your roster with studs.
I'm certain there will be lessons learned from the non-Coronation this weekend and those will be applied to future editions of the V-Reds.
Kind of torn picking a winner tonight. I like UWO but it would be neat to see McGill make history, similar to SMU two years ago. But I don't like Nobes.
Similar dilemma here, but I think it'd be nice for McGill to get their first.
It is sold out, as was the entire tournament. There may be some empty seats tonight with UNB eliminated, but Fredericton has provided a great atmosphere for a National tournament. You could host it in bigger rink's with half or more of the seats empty, but it won't have the same feeling. This is a great place to host the U Cup and Could see it returning in the future.
I think you have to give the edge to McGill going into this game. They won pretty convincingly in the Queen's Cup plus Western is playing on a third consecutive day for the first time this season - the three biggest and toughest games they've played all year. I say this as a Western fan and alumni and hope they can pull out the energy and discipline they showed the last two games - if they do, it will be close and they have a good chance.
) but you certainly have a disproportionate share of bias. The OUA guys are defending their league and they are justly proud right now. Good for them, I am proud of them too. Nice to see someone new win this year.
