Not sure if the trades are fair but if they are not id be willing to add some of our top prospects like Hamilton, Pitlick, ect to make it work (not Klefbom or Marincin).
Thats a team that should make the playoffs and if Penner can be at least a 20-20 guy and MPS the same (which he should be able to do playing with Hall and RNH) then maybe even compete for the cup. There is A LOT of depth on that team.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmi Jenkins
So I'm curious, so I figured I'd ask my fellow HFers.
When did Ales Hemsky go from the highly skilled player/top-6 forward on the Oilers, to Elite, irreplaceable, Franchise cornerstone?
When did this myth start?
Quote:
Originally Posted by CornKicker
i didnt know that myth even existed. we've always had hope hemmer would be a top 20 scorer but health has limited that potential from happening.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skimmingswerth
I'm pretty sure CBJ values Tyutin very highly and there is no way we are getting Carter AND him for our 1st and literally scraps.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsho
Trading for Nash is basically worse than trying to sign a big name UFA. You are overpaying on a long term deal except you just had to give up players/or picks to get him.
Nash makes 7.8 million per year. What do you do when Hall, Eberle and RNH need extensions? Any 3 of those guys could have a better season than Nash has ever had. All that Nash has ever accomplished is 1 richard trophy.
You drafted Hall to be your #1 LW. Is he now the #2 guy until 2018?
We still are incredibly thin at defense. How do you address that? Becomes tougher when you just gave assets up and have a guy making 7.8 million.
We still have no goalie for the future. How do you address that? Same as above.
We’ve spent 2-3 years building a core of forwards. Our #1 and #2 needs are dmen and a goalie.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmi Jenkins
Getting Penner back and the ridiculously round about way to acquire Weber, yikes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CornKicker
but if the return for Penner was Tuebert and a 1st surely hemmer is worth more as teh upside potential is way higher
Quote:
Originally Posted by CornKicker
so weber and a 1st for hemsky is fair
Quote:
Originally Posted by ponokanocker
A 3 way trade would be pretty awesome and could give all 3 teams something they are looking for. I agree that asking for Tyutin is a little much though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsho
Did you just start a debate with yourself?
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Nuge
I don't think it's ever been there. We all know Hemsky has elite skill with the puck(although not an elite player per se) and he is hard to replace when he plays like he has in the past. Therefore, I don't think most posters are going to be too interested in seeing him go for a bag of pucks and leaving us a hole to fill
Quote:
Originally Posted by ponokanocker
I see your point.
Does this mean that Nash actually has negative value then?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmi Jenkins
Yes, but he's not going for a bag of pucks, he's going to yield a decent return.
He just isn't irreplaceable, but there seems to be a myth growing amongst Oilers fans that if he's traded, there's an unfillable hole on the team, which isn't true.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OilDrop37
With Ruutu injured, does this help get a decent return for Hemsky?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spawn
For me it isn't that I think he would create an unfillable hole. Because that's obviously not true. There are top 6 RW's out there available through trade or free agency or whatever who might even be a better fit for this team going forward.
My issue is that I don't think this Oiler management is capable of actually going out and getting that player to replace Hemsky. Hemsky probably isn't that hard to replace for a competent management team. Unfortunately, the people running this organization have shown nothing to indicate any degree of competence.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmi Jenkins
So it's more a personal issue based on assumption and personal bias. That's a different kettle of fish.
Also we probably need a new thread.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beerfish
I've seen very little evidence of anyone saying this. All holes are fillable. However what people probaby are saying is that RW is very thin if hemsky goes, Eberle and that's about it for top end talent.
If Hemsky fetches good value then they should go ahead and make the deal. If good value is not there then they shouldn't ship him out just for the sake of it because it opens up a significant hole for a top two line RW.
Next year, I wonder if the kids will be playing together or split up. I can see arguments for both, but if they play together, we need to find support for Gagner. As shown this year, 2012, he really excels with pro-linemates. I think RNH might be the same way, but I havent see him play with weaker wingers b/c he's usually with Eberle.
Next year, I wonder if the kids will be playing together or split up. I can see arguments for both, but if they play together, we need to find support for Gagner. As shown this year, 2012, he really excels with pro-linemates. I think RNH might be the same way, but I havent see him play with weaker wingers b/c he's usually with Eberle.
I really wish people would stop comparing Gagner to Hopkins. It is unfair to Gagner.
I'm not sure what exactly you mean by this to be honest.
It's not a matter of Hemsky being a piece that's not replaceable. It's just a person issue you have with it being done based on a personal bias and an assumption.
As I said, that is a different kettle of fish.
Quote:
Beerfish
I've seen very little evidence of anyone saying this. All holes are fillable. However what people probaby are saying is that RW is very thin if hemsky goes, Eberle and that's about it for top end talent.
If Hemsky fetches good value then they should go ahead and make the deal. If good value is not there then they shouldn't ship him out just for the sake of it because it opens up a significant hole for a top two line RW.
Some here say that, but the Oilers Rabble of fans think this for some damned reason.
There's not shipping him out for the sake of it, there should be a good return, but all of that said, can Hemsky be paid $5M+ per year for 5+ years? If not, then you have your answer for Hemsky's value.
Next year, I wonder if the kids will be playing together or split up. I can see arguments for both, but if they play together, we need to find support for Gagner. As shown this year, 2012, he really excels with pro-linemates. I think RNH might be the same way, but I havent see him play with weaker wingers b/c he's usually with Eberle.
We need a gritty veteran top 6 forward that can play on one of the kid lines. Who do you think would be available to fit that bill in the offseason via trade or UFA?
We need a gritty veteran top 6 forward that can play on one of the kid lines. Who do you think would be available to fit that bill in the offseason via trade or UFA?
Ryan Malone has been talked about and Drew Stafford.
We need a gritty veteran top 6 forward that can play on one of the kid lines. Who do you think would be available to fit that bill in the offseason via trade or UFA?
We need a gritty veteran top 6 forward that can play on one of the kid lines. Who do you think would be available to fit that bill in the offseason via trade or UFA?
Originally Posted by ponokanocker
I see your point.
Does this mean that Nash actually has negative value then?
Negative value, not really. I mean there still are other teams out there that have the need, and the cap space. Edmonton just isnt a fit due to our current needs, and our cap space in a couple years.
Nash has a ton of talent, but has done very limited in the league. Theres players that have a drive and are winners. Hall is a winner and his drive is passion is unquestioned. Eberle has the drive and clutchness. These guys were winners in jr and bring it every game.
These are the players you want to give larger contracts to. I think it goes hand in hand with talent as an intangible. These are your Kanes, Toews, Crosbys, Datsuyks or Iginlas.
The players without them are your Kovalchuks, Heatleys, Gomezs or Thorntons.
Which group if you had to would you put Nash with?
We need a gritty veteran top 6 forward that can play on one of the kid lines. Who do you think would be available to fit that bill in the offseason via trade or UFA?
Drew Stafford, Tuomo Ruutu, or Linus Omark.
There really is nobody... I've been wanting to get bigger in the top 6 for awhile now. Unfortunately, like our defense, the help isn't coming.
We need a gritty veteran top 6 forward that can play on one of the kid lines. Who do you think would be available to fit that bill in the offseason via trade or UFA?
Unfortunately our best option may be a risky one. Dustin Penner. I know, I know Penner sucks right. BUT
A: he would come cheap
B: he played the best hockey of his career here as recently as last year.
C: he's big
D: Unless pancakes are involved he never gets injured
E: he would be dirt cheap
Risky move but if you sign him for 1 year 1 mil is it really a risk? Worse case scenario he really sucks throw him on waivers the problems over at the end of the year. Best case scenerio he scores 25 goals and gets back to the level he was at with us up until last years deadline.
Unfortunately our best option may be a risky one. Dustin Penner. I know, I know Penner sucks right. BUT
A: he would come cheap
B: he played the best hockey of his career here as recently as last year.
C: he's big
D: Unless pancakes are involved he never gets injured
E: he would be dirt cheap
Risky move but if you sign him for 1 year 1 mil is it really a risk? Worse case scenario he really sucks throw him on waivers the problems over at the end of the year. Best case scenerio he scores 25 goals and gets back to the level he was at with us up until last years deadline.
No thanks, we made out OK with Penner getting us a decent return...it never pays to make the same mistake twice. There are better players and options, although I do miss his sense of humour.
Unfortunately our best option may be a risky one. Dustin Penner. I know, I know Penner sucks right. BUT
A: he would come cheap
B: he played the best hockey of his career here as recently as last year.
C: he's big
D: Unless pancakes are involved he never gets injured
E: he would be dirt cheap
Risky move but if you sign him for 1 year 1 mil is it really a risk? Worse case scenario he really sucks throw him on waivers the problems over at the end of the year. Best case scenerio he scores 25 goals and gets back to the level he was at with us up until last years deadline.
Surely he'll get better than 1 mil/year. He's having a bad season, but the guy was putting up 20-30 goals before.
No thanks, we made out OK with Penner getting us a decent return...it never pays to make the same mistake twice. There are better players and options, although I do miss his sense of humour.
There really aren't better options though. Guys like Ruutu want over 5 mil and guys like Doan aren't going to change teams and guys like Omark and Paajarvi are unproven and huge question marks.
