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ATD 2012 - Draft Thread V

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Old
02-16-2012, 12:29 AM
  #201
BillyShoe1721
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markrander87 View Post
If you'd like to bring up GAA, we may as well discuss Hainsworth having the 2nd best GAA of all time.
I'd just like to point out how absolutely idiotic this point is.

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02-16-2012, 12:32 AM
  #202
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyShoe1721 View Post
That's actually with the Flyers in the average, so the average is actually less than that. I ran the numbers, the averages without the Flyers are:

73-74: 246(not 257)
74-75: 306(not 316)

Not a large drop, but a drop.
Dave Schultz, by himself, managed to have higher PIMs than these averages.. and it isn't particularly close..

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Old
02-16-2012, 12:37 AM
  #203
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkey Town 18 View Post
Is there any way to take out fighting majors?


EDIT: Leaving a list with nik jr
Quote:
Originally Posted by jarek View Post
Dave Schultz, by himself, managed to have higher PIMs than these averages.. and it isn't particularly close..
Sorry, that's power play opportunities against.

http://www.hockey-reference.com/teams/PHI/1974.html
http://www.hockey-reference.com/teams/PHI/1975.html

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Old
02-16-2012, 02:53 AM
  #204
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am I up?

just came back from an awesome date and I'm kindda in a good mood.

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Old
02-16-2012, 02:55 AM
  #205
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am I up?

just came back from an awesome date and I'm kindda in a good mood.
Yes, you are. jkrx is over his 4 hours.

I envy you. French-Canadian girls are really hot. Where are you from, anyway?

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Old
02-16-2012, 03:00 AM
  #206
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sturminator View Post
Yes, you are. jkrx is over his 4 hours.

I envy you. French-Canadian girls are really hot. Where are you from, anyway?
hehehe yes they are , but this one was actually born in Poland.

She was pretty much a french-canadian though , she's been living here since she was 2 years old.Tall blond with green eyes , 24 years old , I feel really calm and zen right now.

I'm from Montreal.

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Old
02-16-2012, 03:03 AM
  #207
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Les Canadiens de Montréal are proud to select Dan Boyle, D



Last edited by Jafar: 02-16-2012 at 03:25 AM.
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Old
02-16-2012, 03:04 AM
  #208
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I'm from Montreal.
I thought so. Wonderful city. I spent as much time as I could there when the army stationed me in upstate New York. I spent time in Toronto and Ottawa, as well, but in the end, I kept going back to Montreal.

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02-16-2012, 03:17 AM
  #209
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With the 339th pick the Chicago Shamrocks are proud to select a LW to round out their second line alongside Frank Fredrickson and Bill Cook...we select, George Hay, LW.



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Old
02-16-2012, 03:36 AM
  #210
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nik jr View Post
With the 339th pick the Chicago Shamrocks are proud to select a LW to round out their second line alongside Frank Fredrickson and Bill Cook...we select, George Hay, LW.



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*Eyes nik down*...

Good pick.

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Old
02-16-2012, 03:39 AM
  #211
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Originally Posted by BenchBrawl View Post
Les Canadiens de Montréal are proud to select Dan Boyle, D

Wait what..I remember a few MLD's ago I said he was a good pick..but never thought he'd go top-400 in the ATD.

I haven't really caught up on his career in awhile ago..but this surprises me. He has been incredibly consistent offensively in San Jose though.

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Old
02-16-2012, 03:42 AM
  #212
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Thrashers select Johnny (Ivan) Gottselig, LW

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Old
02-16-2012, 03:45 AM
  #213
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Originally Posted by chaosrevolver View Post
Wait what..I remember a few MLD's ago I said he was a good pick..but never thought he'd go top-400 in the ATD.

I haven't really caught up on his career in awhile ago..but this surprises me. He has been incredibly consistent offensively in San Jose though.
I just don't understand why Boyle keeps getting underrated.

He's been a pretty good n1 for a while now , six 50 pts or + season , 56 pts in 84 playoff games , a decent leader , a good powerplay quarterback , all-star team: ( 2nd, 2nd ) , averaging a high amount of ice-time on strong teams , won a stanley cup...

Last year he got picked 470 , I didn't reach for him because of the current year , I just thought he already deserved to be around here.

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02-16-2012, 03:56 AM
  #214
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Was simply a question. I remember some defensive issues in TB although I specifically remember him clearing that up in his last year or so there.

Interesting pick though. Just a bit of a name shock.

And my ****ing word my file with my ATD list got corrupted..now I gotta look at the draft thread to see who to take. Give me a bit.

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Old
02-16-2012, 03:58 AM
  #215
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BenchBrawl View Post
I just don't understand why Boyle keeps getting underrated.

He's been a pretty good n1 for a while now , six 50 pts or + season , 56 pts in 84 playoff games , a decent leader , a good powerplay quarterback , all-star team: ( 2nd, 2nd ) , averaging a high amount of ice-time on strong teams , won a stanley cup...

Last year he got picked 470 , I didn't reach for him because of the current year , I just thought he already deserved to be around here.
I think it's an appropriate spot for him, there are not many 2 times post season allstars out there.

Boyle is an outstanding PP QB, one of the best or maybe the best nowadays. He used to be drafted behind many PP QBs form 80ies, because he wasn't thought to do anything more, and the other ones were doing it for more years, so went behind them. But he actually pretty stellar on ES (if he isn't shooting on his own net ), i think he doesn't play PK at all.


Last edited by DoMakc: 02-16-2012 at 04:11 AM.
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Old
02-16-2012, 04:06 AM
  #216
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chaosrevolver View Post
Wait what..I remember a few MLD's ago I said he was a good pick..but never thought he'd go top-400 in the ATD.

I haven't really caught up on his career in awhile ago..but this surprises me. He has been incredibly consistent offensively in San Jose though.
Boyle has almost certainly been San Jose's best playoff performer over the past few seasons. He is tied with Thornton for team lead in playoff points since coming to the Sharks, and has played solid defense in the postseason. It should also be pointed out that Boyle generally gets the hard ES minutes, unlike some offensive defensemen. He is quite a good ES player when he has a partner who can clear the crease. I think there's a definite case for him to rise in the ATD, though given that he's a contemporary player and is not perfect defensively, he will probably get picked to death.

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Old
02-16-2012, 04:19 AM
  #217
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Alright I will start out my third line with..RW - Frank Finnigan

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Old
02-16-2012, 06:36 AM
  #218
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveG View Post
Lada Togliatti selects W Joe Klukay



4 time cup champ and regarded as one of the best defensive forwards of all time.
I took Nick Metz for three reasons:

1) I think he was slightly better offensively
2) I think he has slightly better offensive number in the playoffs
3) I already selected Joe Klukay in another draft

So yea, when you think about players with the same value in the same role, that's Metz and Klukay!

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
I don't know why Metz always goes before Klukay. I view them as very even players, but Klukay can play both wings, which should in theory make him more valuable. What am I missing?
Their value is identical. 70 picks difference between Metz and Klukay, like last draft, is insane.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkey Town 18 View Post
It should also be pointed out that multiple retro-Selke's awarded to Metz were during war years
I thought we grew over those retro Selkes. They mean next to nothing when comparing careers. I really don't see what Klukay had over Metz, just like I don't really see what makes Metz better than Klukay. But I'm always ready to hear an argument!

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02-16-2012, 07:06 AM
  #219
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Did either Klukay or Metz have to deal with Howe? I'm pretty sure Klukay did, not sure about Howe. Showing that one was significantly more effective against him than the other would be a major start in finally deciding this.

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Old
02-16-2012, 07:49 AM
  #220
Hawkey Town 18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jarek View Post
Did either Klukay or Metz have to deal with Howe? I'm pretty sure Klukay did, not sure about Howe. Showing that one was significantly more effective against him than the other would be a major start in finally deciding this.
Metz did not have to deal with a prime Howe since his last season was 47'-48'. Klukay definitely did, and I believe Joe Pelletier mentions a specific playoff series when Klukay was with Boston that he did an effective job shadowing Howe


EDIT: Metz did have to deal with Maurice Richard though

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02-16-2012, 08:12 AM
  #221
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EagleBelfour View Post
I took Nick Metz for three reasons:

1) I think he was slightly better offensively
2) I think he has slightly better offensive number in the playoffs
3) I already selected Joe Klukay in another draft

So yea, when you think about players with the same value in the same role, that's Metz and Klukay!



Their value is identical. 70 picks difference between Metz and Klukay, like last draft, is insane.



I thought we grew over those retro Selkes. They mean next to nothing when comparing careers. I really don't see what Klukay had over Metz, just like I don't really see what makes Metz better than Klukay. But I'm always ready to hear an argument!
Maybe its those retro selkes fogging my memory, but had the impression that metz was regarded as a bit better defensively, while klukay brought more physical play, and can play both wings by the look of it. It's been a couple drafts since I looked at either guy though.

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Old
02-16-2012, 08:17 AM
  #222
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But yeah, retro selke tells us a guy was strong defensively, but you can't read much more into it than that. A selke is hard enough to hand out on any given year now, so how can it be accurate to to 70 years back and do it

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02-16-2012, 08:24 AM
  #223
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Gonna finish off the top 6 here by picking..

Dave Taylor, RW

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Old
02-16-2012, 08:26 AM
  #224
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Gonna finish off the top 6 here by picking..

Dave Taylor, RW
He was definitely on my list.. Dave was more successful than he should have been based on talent alone because he made up for it with effort. Great hockey player.

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Old
02-16-2012, 08:30 AM
  #225
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arrbez View Post
But yeah, retro selke tells us a guy was strong defensively, but you can't read much more into it than that. A selke is hard enough to hand out on any given year now, so how can it be accurate to to 70 years back and do it
I see a retro Selke as evidence that a guy was good defensively and was a very good penalty killer (at least for the Retro Selkes starting in the 1930s). From what I've gathered, the Retro Selkes that Ultimate Hockey gave out tended to go to guys where there is a lot of evidence of penalty killing, rather than necessarily shut down ability at even strength (though that helps too).

But no, it definitely isn't evidence that a guy was the best, either in a given year, or at all.

I also view the early Retro Selkes (like from before the 1920s) as pretty much worthless - IIRC, at one point they give Moose Johnson Retro Selkes for seasons when he was clearly playing as a defenseman.

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