He's 6'0'' 183lbs right now and most think he'll put on another 20-25lbs.
I don't count my chickens with a 3rd overall, and if he doesn't gain the weight then he has to adopt a different playing style and I'd bet against that.
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Would you have said a 6'1'' 190lb Chris Chelios or a would't be able to play a physical game in the NHL?
Yes, and I'd be right about 98% of the time when I made that bet.
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5'11'' 209lb Darius Kasparaitis
If Dumba gets there, there's still the question of whether or not he'll be quick/agile enough to play at the nhl level. It's a big change.
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Dumba is not an off the board pick in the top 3-5.
Never said he was, I just don't want him with a high draft pick.
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Dumba's open-ice hitting isn't even his main selling point. I have to say, you're way out there on this.
I never said it was his main selling point. I saw his boxcar stats. Hitting wasn't Brule's main selling point either, he dominated the Mem Cup.
But the point that you're not getting is that Dumba absolutely has to either switch his playing style or gain 25 lbs of muscle in exactly the right areas to remain effective at the level of a 3rd overall pick. Other players in that draft range don't have to make huge changes to keep playing the exact same way they are playing now. At 3rd overall I want finished product, not a guy who might be able to keep playing the game the way he is currently playing it. I'll take chances with picks after 15th overall.
yeah im not knocking couturier, i really like him, id prefer him to grig
im just trying to temper the "2 franchise centers isnt a bad thing" notion going around, because im not sure grig is.
Watch the kid play, he's got sick hands for a man his size, can skate, and has great hockey IQ. Will he be as good as Yakupov? Probably not but the kid is going to be good, and he'll definitely be more of a shooter then RNH. Think about what Oiler fans have been wanting for the last decade as a center to play with Hemsky and that is Grigorenko.
Well, I guess by that criteria you can't accurately assess any CHL player then considering they're all playing against 16 year olds at some point in time, right.
Uhhh right.
Or, maybe I meant that if he was 6-2 215 lbs right now then you could say that he's already got the size to play that style in the nhl. And you already know how his agility is, how well he skates with that much weight on.
But the point that you're not getting is that Dumba absolutely has to either switch his playing style or gain 25 lbs of muscle in exactly the right areas to remain effective at the level of a 3rd overall pick. Other players in that draft range don't have to make huge changes to keep playing the exact same way they are playing now. At 3rd overall I want finished product, not a guy who might be able to keep playing the game the way he is currently playing it. I'll take chances with picks after 15th overall.
I don't think you're getting that that's a very inaccurate point. You make it sound like Dumba only knows how to take runs at 16 year olds in open ice. That isn't even remotely close to true.
He won't have to change his play style and obviously he, like every other prospect, will have to put on some weight/muscle.
I'm really doubting the extent of your knowledge on Dumba. He doesn't focus on, nor rely on, open-ice hitting in any way. That's just a little bonus feature to an explosive skating defenseman with a multi-faceted offensive game and a projectable defensive game. If he has to eliminate open-ice hitting from his NHL game, which I guarantee has a 0% chance of happening, it won't affect his game.
drummondville was a mid seed playoff team werent they? i dont even think they won the 1st round did they?
Drummondville made it to the second round, they were ranked 4th while Gatineau was ranked 5th. Gatineau upset Drummondville in 6 games and finished the regular season 4 points behind Drummondville. They also went on to the QMJHL final where they lost to the eventual Memorial cup champs St. John.
I don't think you're getting that that's a very inaccurate point. You make it sound like Dumba only knows how to take runs at 16 year olds in open ice. That isn't even remotely close to true.
He won't have to change his play style and obviously he, like every other prospect, will have to put on some weight/muscle.
I'm really doubting the extent of your knowledge on Dumba. He doesn't focus on, nor rely on, open-ice hitting in any way. That's just a little bonus feature to an explosive skating defenseman with a multi-faceted offensive game and a projectable defensive game. If he has to eliminate open-ice hitting from his NHL game, which I guarantee has a 0% chance of happening, it won't affect his game.
Saying this doesnt make it true, Dumba's biggest flaw in my eyes is his skating. All three of lateral mobility, top speed and acceleration need work in order for him to maximize his potential.
Saying this doesnt make it true, Dumba's biggest flaw in my eyes is his skating. All three of lateral mobility, top speed and acceleration need work in order for him to maximize his potential.
I, as well as plenty of experts, think Dumba has explosive skating and is one of the best skaters in the draft.
I, as well as plenty of experts, think Dumba has explosive skating and is one of the best skaters in the draft.
Don't get me wrong the kid can skate, but he'll need work to maximize his potential. When I think of Explosive skaters I think of Taylor Hall or guys who can just fly, Matt Dumba isn't that guy right now but he could be with the right training/coaching. If he was that explosive though he'd probably be in the discussion with Yakupov/Grigorenko.
Don't get me wrong the kid can skate, but he'll need work to maximize his potential. When I think of Explosive skaters I think of Taylor Hall or guys who can just fly, Matt Dumba isn't that guy right now but he could be with the right training/coaching. If he was that explosive though he'd probably be in the discussion with Yakupov/Grigorenko.
Lol he's also a defenceman. I don't know of any dmen that are as fast as hall. I love that dumbs can skate the puck out and stick handle past forwards under pressure. Right now he is the best offensive dman in the draft.
Lol he's also a defenceman. I don't know of any dmen that are as fast as hall. I love that dumbs can skate the puck out and stick handle past forwards under pressure. Right now he is the best offensive dman in the draft.
I think Rielly is better offensively but he's injured so he'll drop a bit, he's also a better skater. And that's why I said if he could be as explosive as those guys then he'd be ranked 1/2 but he's not and that's why hes ranked where he is. If you want to be one of the guys who is leading the rush up the ice you need to be able to skate better then Dumba and that's what scares me about his game. Green, Boyle, Campbell, Kieth, Doughty, etc... are all great skaters and need to be in order to recover from a failed rushing attempts. Am I saying Dumba is bad, absolutely not but he has to get better in order to become an elite defender in the NHL.
Lol he's also a defenceman. I don't know of any dmen that are as fast as hall. I love that dumbs can skate the puck out and stick handle past forwards under pressure. Right now he is the best offensive dman in the draft.
I agree with you for the most part, although Bob Mack and lots of scouts do think Rielly may be the best pure offensive d-man in the draft.
That said, still would prefer Dumba because he is more well rounded, is more physical, is better in his own end, and has a harder shot from the point.
I don't think you're getting that that's a very inaccurate point. You make it sound like Dumba only knows how to take runs at 16 year olds in open ice. That isn't even remotely close to true.
He won't have to change his play style and obviously he, like every other prospect, will have to put on some weight/muscle.
I'm really doubting the extent of your knowledge on Dumba. He doesn't focus on, nor rely on, open-ice hitting in any way. That's just a little bonus feature to an explosive skating defenseman with a multi-faceted offensive game and a projectable defensive game. If he has to eliminate open-ice hitting from his NHL game, which I guarantee has a 0% chance of happening, it won't affect his game.
You're sooooo not getting it. I never said that all he can do is throw big hits. That's who he is though. Some guys are big and they're not physical at all, some guys are small and play a physical style of hockey and it doesn't seem as though any of them ever change.
I don't want to draft a small, physical player - at all. Zero interest. If RNH was taking runs at people I'd say we should trade him before someone takes his number. You get that right? I understand RNH has skill, I just don't want an angry runt with a top 5 pick. I don't want him if he can survive a 1,000 game career throwing big hits and not answering the bell, and I don't want a top 5 player who even has to answer the bell. Look how long Eric Lindros' career lasted, and he was huge.
You're sooooo not getting it. I never said that all he can do is throw big hits. That's who he is though. Some guys are big and they're not physical at all, some guys are small and play a physical style of hockey and it doesn't seem as though any of them ever change.
I don't want to draft a small, physical player - at all. Zero interest. If RNH was taking runs at people I'd say we should trade him before someone takes his number. You get that right? I understand RNH has skill, I just don't want an angry runt with a top 5 pick. I don't want him if he can survive a 1,000 game career throwing big hits and not answering the bell, and I don't want a top 5 player who even has to answer the bell. Look how long Eric Lindros' career lasted, and he was huge.
You're sooooo not getting it. I never said that all he can do is throw big hits. That's who he is though. Some guys are big and they're not physical at all, some guys are small and play a physical style of hockey and it doesn't seem as though any of them ever change.
I don't want to draft a small, physical player - at all. Zero interest. If RNH was taking runs at people I'd say we should trade him before someone takes his number. You get that right? I understand RNH has skill, I just don't want an angry runt with a top 5 pick. I don't want him if he can survive a 1,000 game career throwing big hits and not answering the bell, and I don't want a top 5 player who even has to answer the bell. Look how long Eric Lindros' career lasted, and he was huge.
I'll just freak if the Oilers pick Dumba.
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Originally Posted by Boco
Taylor Hall.
Bingo.
Taylor Hall was drafted at 6'0.5'' 185lbs.
Dumba is 6'0'' 183lbs and is also 8 months younger than Taylor Hall was during his draft year.
Is Taylor Hall a "runt"? Did you freak when we drafted him? Do you want to trade him now?
I was for Seguin, I've always favoured taking a center 1st overall in the draft.
I still like Hall a lot but I'll admit I'd feel safer with a player who could be as effective as Hall while playing a less reckless game. And this is coming from a guy whose favorite player was Glenn Anderson. Go figger.
Dumba is 6'0'' 183lbs and is also 8 months younger than Taylor Hall was during his draft year.
Is Taylor Hall a "runt"? Did you freak when we drafted him? Do you want to trade him now?
Hall isn't a headhunter. If he was then yeah, he's way undersized and I'd trade him this instant.
As much a speople would like to lay the body on Joe Sakic, most nhl players would rather land a crushing hit on Matt Cooke or Nicki Kronwall and just take Sakic out of the play with a normal body check.
