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The Official 2012 Draft Thread: Part IV | "Operation Dumba Drop"

View Poll Results: Which defenseman do you like most?
Ryan Murray 119 56.40%
Jacob Trouba 8 3.79%
Matt Dumba 45 21.33%
Griffin Reinhart 28 13.27%
Cody Ceci 1 0.47%
Morgan Rielly 10 4.74%
Voters: 211. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
02-20-2012, 10:46 PM
  #276
JawandaPuck
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Koto View Post
do you have a season split that looks better for him?
Grigorenko (best thing since sliced bread)...


GPIDGameDateGAPts+/-SOGSPIMPPSHFGGWIGFO
1)771Vic @ Que2011-09-09 11-1 1       
2)782BLB @ Que2011-09-11 -1 3       
3)791Chi @ Que2011-09-16 -2 3       
4)802Que @ BLB2011-09-18 22134       
5)811Que @ Vic2011-09-23213167 1 1 
6)822Que @ Chi2011-09-252131472  
7)833Mon @ Que2011-09-30112212  
   SEPTEMBER TOTALS5611114272--1-1101
   YEAR TO DATE TOTALS5611114272--1-1101
1)842Sha @ Que2011-10-02112-123 1  
2)851Rou @ Que2011-10-07 11 13       
3)859BaC @ Que2011-10-08314235 1 11  
4)867Que @ Sha2011-10-09 2       
5)874Vic @ Que2011-10-13 112 2       
6)891Que @ Bat2011-10-20112135  
7)903Que @ Hal2011-10-22112 48 1  
8)906Que @ SNB2011-10-23 -2 3       
9)917BaC @ Que2011-10-28 11112       
10)926Sha @ Que2011-10-29112-144  
   OCTOBER TOTALS781521837-3-11-316
   YEAR TO DATE TOTALS1214263326423-211316
1)933Que @ Sha2011-11-01112-224  
2)935Que @ Gat2011-11-021 1123  
3)940Chi @ Que2011-11-04112335  
4)950Rim @ Que2011-11-06       
5)958Que @ Rou2011-11-11112333  
6)966Que @ VdO2011-11-12 111       
7)976Que @ BaC2011-11-161232112 1 
8)984Que @ Rim2011-11-18112122  
9)989Hal @ Que2011-11-19112135 1  
10)1195SNB @ Que2011-11-223 3234 1 111 
11)1002Que @ Dru2011-11-25  12       
12)1013Que @ Chi2011-11-27 222       
   NOVEMBER TOTALS10102014202922-112561
   YEAR TO DATE TOTALS22244617529345-323561
1)1020Que @ Cap2011-12-01 11111       
2)1031Que @ Hal2011-12-03112134  
3)1037Que @ PEI2011-12-04 11 1       
4)1045Rou @ Que2011-12-09 111 4       
5)1059VdO @ Que2011-12-11123-135 1 1  
6)1064Que @ BaC2011-12-13 222122      
7)1070PEI @ Que2011-12-16112214  
   DECEMBER TOTALS3912692121--1-695
   YEAR TO DATE TOTALS253358236111466-333695
1)1161Dru @ Que2012-01-211 1-113 1  
2)1169Que @ Chi2012-01-241 1112 1  
3)1181Que @ Sha2012-01-27 11-123       
4)1186Gat @ Que2012-01-28123112 1  
5)1192Que @ Vic2012-01-29 112       
   JANUARY TOTALS3361612-1-2--781
   YEAR TO DATE TOTALS283664246712667-533781
1)1202Rim @ Que2012-02-03 -6 3       
2)1211Que @ BLB2012-02-04 11 24       
3)1213Bat @ Que2012-02-071 1123 1 
4)1224Que @ Rim2012-02-10 -122       
5)1236BaC @ Que2012-02-14213435  
6)1245Que @ SNB2012-02-17 11-111       
7)1251Que @ Mon2012-02-18 123       
8)1255Que @ PEI2012-02-19123322 11  
   FEBRUARY TOTALS45911423---11 473/932
   YEAR TO DATE TOTALS324173258114967-644473/932


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02-20-2012, 10:53 PM
  #277
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JawandaPuck View Post
Grigorenko (best thing since sliced bread)...


GPIDGameDateGAPts+/-SOGSPIMPPSHFGGWIGFO
1)1202Rim @ Que2012-02-03 -6 3       
Yikes, what happened here?

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02-20-2012, 10:58 PM
  #278
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Yikes, what happened here?
Well, you know how a loaf of bread has the unsavory first and last slice...

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02-20-2012, 11:07 PM
  #279
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Yikes, what happened here?
A pancake breakfast with Penner's family.

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02-21-2012, 12:10 AM
  #280
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Uhhh right.

Or, maybe I meant that if he was 6-2 215 lbs right now then you could say that he's already got the size to play that style in the nhl. And you already know how his agility is, how well he skates with that much weight on.
You have no idea what you are talking about.

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02-21-2012, 12:12 AM
  #281
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Saying this doesnt make it true, Dumba's biggest flaw in my eyes is his skating. All three of lateral mobility, top speed and acceleration need work in order for him to maximize his potential.
He is one of the best skaters in the draft.

Not sure where you are getting the idea that his skating is a problem.

Its likely his best asset.

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02-21-2012, 12:15 AM
  #282
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You have no idea what you are talking about.
It is the case when posters comment about a player who they have never watched . I would take Dumba over Murray in a heartbeat they are the same in offensive capability IMO night and day different on the defensive side, Dumba is the real deal plays hard hits hard takes hits and is a gamer.

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02-21-2012, 12:30 AM
  #283
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
He is one of the best skaters in the draft.

Not sure where you are getting the idea that his skating is a problem.

Its likely his best asset.
His stride to me looks a little awkward, like I said it's not horrible but I think it needs improvement before he can excel at the next level. Kid has almost everything else you'd want from a defenseman. His other flaw for me would be that his stickhandling could be better. I'm not to worried about his size he should fill out.

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02-21-2012, 12:53 AM
  #284
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His stride to me looks a little awkward, like I said it's not horrible but I think it needs improvement before he can excel at the next level. Kid has almost everything else you'd want from a defenseman. His other flaw for me would be that his stickhandling could be better. I'm not to worried about his size he should fill out.
His skating is very strong and there is nothing wrong with his stickhandling. How much have you seen him live?

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02-21-2012, 01:04 AM
  #285
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We hear it every year. Last year there were people that had never even seen RNH once live claiming his skating was average, he had a poor release, and that he wasn't quick enough.

I'll admit, Dumba does have a unique stride, but a guy like doughty doesn't exactly skate as smooth as Coffey but he's still very dynamic.

Dumba goes end to end once or twice a game, dangles through 2-3 guys while rushing the puck, makes quite a few creative spin moves both at the offensive blue line and in the neutral zone, very similar to Doughty.

If anything, his offensive skills are one of his faults, simply because he tries to do too much, and at times he turns it over trying to dangle half the team.

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02-21-2012, 01:17 AM
  #286
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I think his athleticism is right at the top. He’s very athletic, he’s a very good skater with a lot of explosiveness, and he’s a powerful kid out there.'

-Jesse Wallin
I'm pretty sure Dumba's head coach/GM has seen him play a few times.

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02-21-2012, 01:21 AM
  #287
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
His skating is very strong and there is nothing wrong with his stickhandling. How much have you seen him live?
Would you rate his stickhandling skills as high as Doughty's? Hes good but not elite good if he wants to be elite those are the two areas he needs to work on. And I seen him last spring for the playoffs, and a couple times this year. Not following guys as much this year due to having a new baby and job.

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02-21-2012, 01:21 AM
  #288
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Dumba is like a 4th forward out there sometimes, he can rush the puck end-to-end ala Coffey (not saying he is *that* good or even close, but he does have that tool in the toolbox).

Skating is not an issue, though his stride might be a tad unorthodox. I actually thought he was a forward last year when I was watching the Rebels to see RNH, lol.

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02-21-2012, 01:25 AM
  #289
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Skating is not an issue, though his stride might be a tad unorthodox.
As long as it doesn't affect his lateral ability, it's a non-issue in my opinion.

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02-21-2012, 02:01 AM
  #290
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Grigorenko (best thing since sliced bread)...

His shot is at an elite level, he's not afraid to wire the puck. The way he can hold the puck is Malkin-esque too.

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02-21-2012, 02:38 AM
  #291
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Would you rate his stickhandling skills as high as Doughty's? Hes good but not elite good if he wants to be elite those are the two areas he needs to work on. And I seen him last spring for the playoffs, and a couple times this year. Not following guys as much this year due to having a new baby and job.
Why would I compare him to Doughty, a fourth year pro? Dumba is one of the youngest in his draft class (ten months younger than Murray) and yet he is usually the best player on the ice for either team on any given night in the whl.

He has the ability to go end to end, and/or control the game in any way he wants, with superior skating, puck control, passing or physicality.

To me, the part of his game that needs work, is his defensive reads/positioning. Nothing is wrong with his offensive game.

It will be a sad day when/if we pass on this player, and we could well rue the day that we did, somewhere down the line.

It will be a real shame if we pass on this crop of western Canadian dmen, but that is how it is shaping up. It wouldnt surprise me at all if we were to finish dead last for the third year in a row. The temptation to pick Grigorenko/Yakupov will likely prove to be too much, and we will be left with the same garbage d going forward into a forward heavy draft next year where we could well get a shot at Nathan Mackinnon.

What then? According to some, we would draft him anyway and look to trade one of our centers. What kind of value would we get? We could probably rule out any player with a nmc/ntc. So where does that leave us? Trading for an elc or a prospect? Would they be as good as Dumba? Seems pretty dubious to me, and would be an bass akwards way of doing things.

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02-21-2012, 03:11 AM
  #292
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We need an offensive dynamo on the back end in a bad way. An Erik Karlsson type. The D prospect we have are biggish two-way 2nd-pairing types - in the mold of Gilbert and Petry.

None of the AHL D-men can put up major points and Oilers scoring from NHL D-men are bottom-5 as I recall from a TV broadcast. Vancouver, Ottawa, etc. are top-5.

Which of the 2012 D have the biggest offensive upside?

Our prospect pipe is full of redundancies so some of them rot - like Martindale, Kytnar, Motin, Omark, etc.

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02-21-2012, 04:02 AM
  #293
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I have not seen any of the top 10 prospects play, everything I know about them comes from here, the media, or scouting articles.

Would these player type comparisons be justified?

Grigorenko - Malkin-lite? Lanky, but big and strong natural centre, with dangles and sniping ability? Can't think of another comparison other than Malkin (maybe it's the nationality!!).

Murray - Bouwmeester. Polished, size, should be an all around Dman, but question marks around offensive skills.

Dumba - Kronwall. Small guy with above average skating, above average offensive skills, not a puck-rusher, but hits like a truck.

Given the current state of affairs, this team could equally use all three! This team needs more multi-dimensional players.

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02-21-2012, 04:03 AM
  #294
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We need an offensive dynamo on the back end in a bad way. An Erik Karlsson type. The D prospect we have are biggish two-way 2nd-pairing types - in the mold of Gilbert and Petry.

None of the AHL D-men can put up major points and Oilers scoring from NHL D-men are bottom-5 as I recall from a TV broadcast. Vancouver, Ottawa, etc. are top-5.

Which of the 2012 D have the biggest offensive upside?

Our prospect pipe is full of redundancies so some of them rot - like Martindale, Kytnar, Motin, Omark, etc.
Dumba, Reilly, Poulliot imo..

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02-21-2012, 04:06 AM
  #295
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Grig is quasi-generational...can not be passed up at two spot.

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02-21-2012, 04:42 AM
  #296
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Why would I compare him to Doughty, a fourth year pro? Dumba is one of the youngest in his draft class (ten months younger than Murray) and yet he is usually the best player on the ice for either team on any given night in the whl.

He has the ability to go end to end, and/or control the game in any way he wants, with superior skating, puck control, passing or physicality.

To me, the part of his game that needs work, is his defensive reads/positioning. Nothing is wrong with his offensive game.

It will be a sad day when/if we pass on this player, and we could well rue the day that we did, somewhere down the line.

It will be a real shame if we pass on this crop of western Canadian dmen, but that is how it is shaping up. It wouldnt surprise me at all if we were to finish dead last for the third year in a row. The temptation to pick Grigorenko/Yakupov will likely prove to be too much, and we will be left with the same garbage d going forward into a forward heavy draft next year where we could well get a shot at Nathan Mackinnon.

What then? According to some, we would draft him anyway and look to trade one of our centers. What kind of value would we get? We could probably rule out any player with a nmc/ntc. So where does that leave us? Trading for an elc or a prospect? Would they be as good as Dumba? Seems pretty dubious to me, and would be an bass akwards way of doing things.
Thing is, IATL, if the Oilers have the ability to select Yakupov/Grigorenko, they will also be able to unload either of them for a pretty sizable return, which could include a young, legitimate top-pairing defenceman or possibly two.

I'm not sure Dumba, Trouba or Murray would have the same return.

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02-21-2012, 05:41 AM
  #297
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Grig is quasi-generational...can not be passed up at two spot.
I'm sorry..... what does this mean?

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02-21-2012, 06:16 AM
  #298
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I never said he couldn't do other things well tho, I even said that if he played more like Murray I'd be fine drafting him. Right now big hits are a big part of his game and that's a really bad thing for a guy his size. He has a poor style of play for his body type and he has to make a 180 degree change in how he plays to be effective.
There is absolutely no reason why Dumba could not play a similar style in the NHL. He has great mechanics in delivering his hits. Is not about a big guy using his bulk to collide with a smaller body. Dumba explodes through the guys he hits much the same way as you would see a DB in football. (I coached football for many years and some of the best hitters I saw were smaller guys who knew how to use their bodies).

Kronwall is a very good example of a player who is actually smaller than Dumba will be who still delivers punishing hits.

Of course, like any player moving from Junior to the NHL there will have to be adjustments in his game. But there is nothing I have seen that suggest he will have to turn his game around 180 degrees.

(That said as of right now I expect the Oilers will be picking #2 and will choose Grigorenko.)

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02-21-2012, 06:20 AM
  #299
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I have not seen any of the top 10 prospects play, everything I know about them comes from here, the media, or scouting articles.

Would these player type comparisons be justified?

Grigorenko - Malkin-lite? Lanky, but big and strong natural centre, with dangles and sniping ability? Can't think of another comparison other than Malkin (maybe it's the nationality!!).

Murray - Bouwmeester. Polished, size, should be an all around Dman, but question marks around offensive skills.

Dumba - Kronwall. Small guy with above average skating, above average offensive skills, not a puck-rusher, but hits like a truck.

Given the current state of affairs, this team could equally use all three! This team needs more multi-dimensional players.
Dumba's offensive skills are way more than above average. And he is an excellent puck-rusher with extremely good skating skills.

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02-21-2012, 07:10 AM
  #300
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Thing is, IATL, if the Oilers have the ability to select Yakupov/Grigorenko, they will also be able to unload either of them for a pretty sizable return, which could include a young, legitimate top-pairing defenceman or possibly two.

I'm not sure Dumba, Trouba or Murray would have the same return.
Im not so sure it would be that easy. You would have to find a team that has.......

- redundancy on the back end as far as pmd/offensive dmen goes.

- a lack of offense up front, and a need for a top young forward.

- a top young pmd/offensive d they are willing to move for a forward, and they must not have a nmc/ntc AND has they should have term left on an existing deal.

Who would fit all of the above criteria?

I cant really think of anyone off hand.

The closest I can think of would be Ryan Ellis out of Nashville, or Voynov/JJ out of LA. Would that be an acceptable return for a Hall/Eberle/Hopkins/Grigorenko?

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