HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Pacific Division > Edmonton Oilers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

The Official 2012 Draft Thread: Part IV | "Operation Dumba Drop"

View Poll Results: Which defenseman do you like most?
Ryan Murray 119 56.40%
Jacob Trouba 8 3.79%
Matt Dumba 45 21.33%
Griffin Reinhart 28 13.27%
Cody Ceci 1 0.47%
Morgan Rielly 10 4.74%
Voters: 211. You may not vote on this poll

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
02-21-2012, 06:26 PM
  #326
I am the Liquor
finger sniffer
 
I am the Liquor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Sunnyvale
Country: Canada
Posts: 35,029
vCash: 306
Quote:
Originally Posted by dem View Post
Not at all
Especially with this draft class.

If we could draft 2 of Murray/Dumba/Rielly/Reinhart/Trouba I would be ecstatic


The forwards available next year look outstanding. I'm betting we are still bottom 5 next year.. as sad as that may be.
Yup. Plenty of room in the cart for forwards next year. Some good d prospects too, just not as many as this year. We would be a little short-sighted not to take a dman imo. And if we could get two, so much the better.

Wouldnt be against picking Vasilevski with a second first round pick either.

I am the Liquor is offline  
Old
02-21-2012, 06:30 PM
  #327
Soundwave
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 26,619
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
Yup. Plenty of room in the cart for forwards next year. Some good d prospects too, just not as many as this year. We would be a little short-sighted not to take a dman imo. And if we could get two, so much the better.

Wouldnt be against picking Vasilevski with a second first round pick either.
I'm not so sure we'll be picking in the top 5 even next year though to be honest.

The difference between us and a team like Colorado that's in the thick of a playoff hunt is about 6 wins.

If Nugent Hopkins in particular continues to show some generational type hockey abilities, this team is likely going to hit a point of rapid improvement as he gains more and more confidence in his freakish Spider-Man like hockey powers. They need to ink a veteran d-man better than Barker in the summer, but that's not impossible.

Thinking that, honestly I think we should just take the BPA this year. Maybe we will be back in the lottery next year ... but we could also be clear of the lottery for the next 10+ years for all we know.

Soundwave is online now  
Old
02-21-2012, 06:40 PM
  #328
I am the Liquor
finger sniffer
 
I am the Liquor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Sunnyvale
Country: Canada
Posts: 35,029
vCash: 306
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soundwave View Post
I'm not so sure we'll be picking in the top 5 even next year though to be honest.

The difference between us and a team like Colorado that's in the thick of a playoff hunt is about 6 wins.

If Nugent Hopkins in particular continues to show some generational type hockey abilities, this team is likely going to hit a point of rapid improvement as he gains more and more confidence in his freakish Spider-Man like hockey powers. They need to ink a veteran d-man better than Barker in the summer, but that's not impossible.

Thinking that, honestly I think we should just take the BPA this year. Maybe we will be back in the lottery next year ... but we could also be clear of the lottery for the next 10+ years for all we know.
Im not dead set against picking Grigorenko. He is a huge talent. I disagree with the optimistic projection for next year though. We will still have the same d (recent signings indicate that isnt going to change) and the same problems in goal. That isnt going way, and until it does, I dont think we go anywhere tbh.

I am the Liquor is offline  
Old
02-21-2012, 06:56 PM
  #329
Soundwave
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 26,619
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
Im not dead set against picking Grigorenko. He is a huge talent. I disagree with the optimistic projection for next year though. We will still have the same d (recent signings indicate that isnt going to change) and the same problems in goal. That isnt going way, and until it does, I dont think we go anywhere tbh.
I suggested this in the other thread, but I'm really thinking a move like Gagner + Peckham for Gormley + Klesla could help us out immediately and in the future too.

Klesla is a solid vet who'd probably fit right in on a pairing with Smid and beefs up our top 4.

Gormley ... could be the offensive stud d-man we covet and already has a few years of development under his belt.

It may be time to sell-high with Gagner this summer perhaps. Phoenix still needs a ton of help upfront and probably would jump at the chance to get Gagner.

Soundwave is online now  
Old
02-21-2012, 07:16 PM
  #330
Koto
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2011
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,264
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soundwave View Post
I suggested this in the other thread, but I'm really thinking a move like Gagner + Peckham for Gormley + Klesla could help us out immediately and in the future too.

Klesla is a solid vet who'd probably fit right in on a pairing with Smid and beefs up our top 4.

Gormley ... could be the offensive stud d-man we covet and already has a few years of development under his belt.

It may be time to sell-high with Gagner this summer perhaps. Phoenix still needs a ton of help upfront and probably would jump at the chance to get Gagner.
theres just one problem though...

Koto is offline  
Old
02-21-2012, 09:23 PM
  #331
nexttothemoon
10 again
 
nexttothemoon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Northern Alberta
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,934
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by dustrock View Post
Say the Oilers get the #3 and the #9 picks.

If we took Murray at #3 and both Reinhart and Galchenyuk were available at #9, who would you pick?
Well I'd seriously be considering Galchenyuk at #3 so if he was still available at #9... he's a must pick at that point and the Oilers are laughing at their good luck.

I agree with IATL as well... if the Oilers get a late 1st out of some sort of deadline day deal (or draft day deal)... Vasilevski is a very strong pick, and yes I realize the risks of picking a goalie high, especially one with a possible "Russian factor". Vasilevski just looks to have "it" though. I haven't had this strong a feeling about a goalie prospect I've seen in many years. He just seems to have the composure and raw ability to become a #1 franchise goalie. He could of course bust but so can any other forward or dman chosen in the 1st round.

Put it this way... I think I've read negatives about every prospective 1st round prospect this year and that even includes Yakupov and Grigorenko who are almost unanimously regarded as #1 and #2 in this draft... yet I've heard essentially ZERO negatives about Vasilevski other than the fact he's Russian and to me that's not a negative. That's akin to saying Dumba has Filipino heritage so that's a negative because he might stay "smallish" in stature and not develop into a physical dman... which we already know he is.

nexttothemoon is offline  
Old
02-21-2012, 09:29 PM
  #332
primetimepawich
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 5
vCash: 500


Forgive the shoddy MS Paint "poor man's Photoshop", but I love your current draft theme and had to get on board when my roommate told me about it last night

-Joe Pawich

primetimepawich is offline  
Old
02-21-2012, 09:46 PM
  #333
BoldNewLettuce
Esquire
 
BoldNewLettuce's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 7,647
vCash: 50
I'd like a rise for Rielly thread myself.

BoldNewLettuce is offline  
Old
02-21-2012, 10:17 PM
  #334
I am the Liquor
finger sniffer
 
I am the Liquor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Sunnyvale
Country: Canada
Posts: 35,029
vCash: 306
Quote:
Originally Posted by primetimepawich View Post


Forgive the shoddy MS Paint "poor man's Photoshop", but I love your current draft theme and had to get on board when my roommate told me about it last night

-Joe Pawich
That's great stuff.

Thanks.

I am the Liquor is offline  
Old
02-21-2012, 11:20 PM
  #335
AK Dandyman
Registered User
 
AK Dandyman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,041
vCash: 500
How would you guys compare Yakupov & Grigorenko to Yevgeni Kuznetsov?

Obviously Kuznetsov would have been drafted a lot higher if they redo the 2010 draft, he would have probably be drafted around top 5-7?

If these 3 Russians are in the same draft this year, i know it's tough to tell as they are separated by 2 draft classes, would Kuznetsov be even higher than the other 2?

May not be a great way to gauge the quality of this draft class comparing to the 2010 class(Hall, Seguin, Gudbranson top 3 and Skinner at 7), but just want to get an idea of it and what you guys takes on it.

AK Dandyman is offline  
Old
02-22-2012, 02:39 AM
  #336
battlegoon
Registered User
 
battlegoon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Calgary, AB
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,621
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by AK Dandyman View Post
How would you guys compare Yakupov & Grigorenko to Yevgeni Kuznetsov?

Obviously Kuznetsov would have been drafted a lot higher if they redo the 2010 draft, he would have probably be drafted around top 5-7?

If these 3 Russians are in the same draft this year, i know it's tough to tell as they are separated by 2 draft classes, would Kuznetsov be even higher than the other 2?

May not be a great way to gauge the quality of this draft class comparing to the 2010 class(Hall, Seguin, Gudbranson top 3 and Skinner at 7), but just want to get an idea of it and what you guys takes on it.
Yakupov IMO is just a better version of Hall. He's a better, stronger skater, maybe not as fasr but he doesn't fall easily. He's got a better shot, better vision, just as much drive and phyisicality... So he's a bit cocky and he's Russian but people are missing the bigger picture here.

Grigorenko is obviously less flashy than Kuznetsov but his defensive game is miles ahead. He goes before Kuznetsov any day of the week, same with Yakupov. Kuznetsov has looked great in the WJC but I don't know about him yet, could end up being good but I see these two Russians being better

battlegoon is offline  
Old
02-22-2012, 08:32 AM
  #337
jadeddog
Registered User
 
jadeddog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Regina, Saskatchewan
Posts: 12,112
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by battlegoon View Post
Yakupov IMO is just a better version of Hall. He's a better, stronger skater, maybe not as fasr but he doesn't fall easily. He's got a better shot, better vision, just as much drive and phyisicality... So he's a bit cocky and he's Russian but people are missing the bigger picture here.

Grigorenko is obviously less flashy than Kuznetsov but his defensive game is miles ahead. He goes before Kuznetsov any day of the week, same with Yakupov. Kuznetsov has looked great in the WJC but I don't know about him yet, could end up being good but I see these two Russians being better
this is pretty much my thinking as well on yakupov

i've always said that yakupov is a more skilled, less physical, version of hall... he doesn't seem to have as many intangibles, but has more puck skill/better hands

i can't comment on comparing kuznetsov v grigorenko, as i've only seen kuznetsov in the WJC... grigorneko is fully 2 years younger though, so one would think that he would have the upper hand, since their play at this point seems pretty close

if we finish 2nd, grigorenko is my guy and i'm happy to get him... but man o man would it be nice to win the lottery and be able to take yakupov... a top-6 of hall/gagner/eberle and XXX/RNH/yakupov would be unbelievably skilled, but might have problems with physical teams

jadeddog is offline  
Old
02-22-2012, 08:42 AM
  #338
doubledown99
Registered User
 
doubledown99's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 2,294
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by jadeddog View Post
this is pretty much my thinking as well on yakupov

i've always said that yakupov is a more skilled, less physical, version of hall... he doesn't seem to have as many intangibles, but has more puck skill/better hands

i can't comment on comparing kuznetsov v grigorenko, as i've only seen kuznetsov in the WJC... grigorneko is fully 2 years younger though, so one would think that he would have the upper hand, since their play at this point seems pretty close

if we finish 2nd, grigorenko is my guy and i'm happy to get him... but man o man would it be nice to win the lottery and be able to take yakupov... a top-6 of hall/gagner/eberle and XXX/RNH/yakupov would be unbelievably skilled, but might have problems with physical teams
Have to agree with most of your post. I hate to say it but I think Yakupov is better than Hall in every facet except speed (and size). Yakupov is shiftier....but in terms of pure speed I would give the edge to Hall. And obviously Hall is bigger

Watching Yakupov I think he's grittier than Hall too. That is no knock on Hall as I absolutely love the guy. But if I'm being objective I think Yaks might be slightly better and more physical. Lots of scouts say he might be best OHL prospect since Stamkos. That is quite the compliment when you consider the players that have come from the OHL recently (Tavares, Hall, Seguin, Skinner).

doubledown99 is offline  
Old
02-22-2012, 08:51 AM
  #339
doubledown99
Registered User
 
doubledown99's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 2,294
vCash: 500
http://ohlprospects.blogspot.com/

Here are what scouts/writers had to say about Yakupov:

1. Nail Yakupov - Sarnia Sting
Received Votes From: 11 out of 11
Highest Placement/Lowest Placement: Unanimously Ranked 1st (11 out of 11)
Comments: With Galchenyuk injured, it's been the Yakupov show all season long. This ranking obviously comes as no surprise. He's the total package offensively, as David Burstyn alluded to. "His skating especially his diangle cuts and first step quickness are sensational. He has only played 29 games this season but currently has the highest points per game with 1.89 in the entire OHL. When he is on the ice he flat out intimidates the opposition. He can blow right by a defender or he can deliver a razor sharp pass to a team mate for a goal. Has the most developed offensive hockey sense of any prospect in the draft." You aren't going to find any disagreement there, with comments ranging from, "a pure game-breaker. He'll be the face of a franchise in desperate need of one," to "his ability to make skilled plays at high speeds is unmatched by anyone else is the league, let along any other draft eligible players." The only real concern moving forward has to be his ability to play the game he does, at his size, at the NHL level. One contributor sums up the concerns of a few quite nicely. "I have some concerns about how his body will hold up in the NHL with his playing style but thatís a risk a team will have to take." After all, "Yakupov is a game changer, and the only one in this class that can change a game on his own," as said by another contributor.

doubledown99 is offline  
Old
02-22-2012, 09:00 AM
  #340
Skm
Registered User
 
Skm's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 2,361
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by primetimepawich View Post


Forgive the shoddy MS Paint "poor man's Photoshop", but I love your current draft theme and had to get on board when my roommate told me about it last night

-Joe Pawich
I hope those two in the background aren't around long enough to see the pick. Switch one to Katz' Seth Rogen son

Skm is offline  
Old
02-22-2012, 09:26 AM
  #341
dustrock
Too Legit To Quit
 
dustrock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 5,924
vCash: 500
Can you imagine a line of Hall-RNH-Yakupov? Unreal.

dustrock is offline  
Old
02-22-2012, 09:34 AM
  #342
nafrelio
Registered User
 
nafrelio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: brite feuchure
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,575
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by AK Dandyman View Post
How would you guys compare Yakupov & Grigorenko to Yevgeni Kuznetsov?

Obviously Kuznetsov would have been drafted a lot higher if they redo the 2010 draft, he would have probably be drafted around top 5-7?

If these 3 Russians are in the same draft this year, i know it's tough to tell as they are separated by 2 draft classes, would Kuznetsov be even higher than the other 2?

May not be a great way to gauge the quality of this draft class comparing to the 2010 class(Hall, Seguin, Gudbranson top 3 and Skinner at 7), but just want to get an idea of it and what you guys takes on it.

I can't answer your question, but just wanted to add how much I wished we took Kuznetzov. The Oiler scouts were very high on him. However, Washington fans are crapping their pants right now because he very recently openly commented that he'd be willing to stay in the KHL if he got a 10 year contract! I know Yakupov and Grigs are already in NA, but this does add to the mysterious "Russian factor".

nafrelio is offline  
Old
02-22-2012, 09:41 AM
  #343
nafrelio
Registered User
 
nafrelio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: brite feuchure
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,575
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by dustrock View Post
Can you imagine a line of Hall-RNH-Yakupov? Unreal.
Yes. Yes I can.

Hall-RNH-Yakupov
PRV-Gagner*-Eberle

I'm warming to the idea of keeping Hemmer, but if we added Yakupov, we better have traded Hemsky at the deadline but we could sure use a big strong two-way #2centre in that top 6.

If Jeff Carter wasn't such a troublemaker (not to mention that brutal contract), he'd be an awesome fit there at #2.

nafrelio is offline  
Old
02-22-2012, 09:52 AM
  #344
doubledown99
Registered User
 
doubledown99's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 2,294
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by dustrock View Post
Can you imagine a line of Hall-RNH-Yakupov? Unreal.
It would absolutely be lethal. Hall and Yak's speed would open up the ice for RNH and his amazing vision and passing ability. There is no way a team could shut them down unless they cycled us to death or if we had incompetent D that couldn't get the puck up to the forwards or out of our end. The line though could compensate for even that weakness.

doubledown99 is offline  
Old
02-22-2012, 11:40 AM
  #345
jadeddog
Registered User
 
jadeddog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Regina, Saskatchewan
Posts: 12,112
vCash: 500
i like the looks of our top-6 regardless of who we take

take takupov:
hall-RNH-yakupov
paajarvi-gagner-eberle

take grigorenko:
hall-RNH-eberle
paajarvi-grigorenko/gagner-grigorenko/gagner

i think if we take grigs, we'll end up breaking him in at RW and keeping gagner at center... then after grigs rookie year (2012-13 or 2013-14, depending) we make a decision on who is better at center long term ... i would guess this is when we either move gagner to wing permanently, or end up trading him, cause i would suspect grigs would be a better solution long-term

jadeddog is offline  
Old
02-22-2012, 02:35 PM
  #346
Oi'll say!
Registered User
 
Oi'll say!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Oil in 9
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,200
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
You have no idea what you are talking about.
You have no idea what I'm talking about. Kinda like when your teachers were talking but somehow you still managed to gradgeeate elimentree skool.

Oi'll say! is offline  
Old
02-22-2012, 02:40 PM
  #347
Oi'll say!
Registered User
 
Oi'll say!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Oil in 9
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,200
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDig14 View Post
We hear it every year. Last year there were people that had never even seen RNH once live claiming his skating was average, he had a poor release, and that he wasn't quick enough.
Last year the overwhelming majority of people people were saying he wasn't big enough. If you're going to open up a whole new can of worms then at least be accurate.

Size isn't a factor when he plays but he is injured for the second time this season so fwiw his size is back up for debate.

Oi'll say! is offline  
Old
02-22-2012, 02:48 PM
  #348
Oi'll say!
Registered User
 
Oi'll say!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Oil in 9
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,200
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
Im not so sure it would be that easy. You would have to find a team that has.......

- redundancy on the back end as far as pmd/offensive dmen goes.

- a lack of offense up front, and a need for a top young forward.

- a top young pmd/offensive d they are willing to move for a forward, and they must not have a nmc/ntc AND has they should have term left on an existing deal.

Who would fit all of the above criteria?

I cant really think of anyone off hand.

The closest I can think of would be Ryan Ellis out of Nashville, or Voynov/JJ out of LA. Would that be an acceptable return for a Hall/Eberle/Hopkins/Grigorenko?
Until Grigorenko goes off track his trade value is immensely greater than what you're talking about. He's a highly skilled 2-way center with size on an elc.

Teams don't analyze their roster when a guy like that is available they just jump on the deal. If you'd take the bpa in the draft you'd trade for Grigorenko. Ken Holland would trade for Grigorenko.

Oi'll say! is offline  
Old
02-22-2012, 03:45 PM
  #349
Mr Forever
The Oilers :(
 
Mr Forever's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: COLLEGE
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,991
vCash: 500
Either of the Russians bolsters our top 6.

It would be a huge mistake to pass on one of them.

I'd prefer Grig because Gagner is still a question mark as a 2C, but it's really tough to say no to Yakupov's skill and offensive instincts.

I feel if we drafted Yakupov he could make Gagner a better player, that's how good he is. But my god, that would be a small top 6.

Mr Forever is online now  
Old
02-22-2012, 03:50 PM
  #350
Koto
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2011
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,264
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oi'll say! View Post
Until Grigorenko goes off track his trade value is immensely greater than what you're talking about. He's a highly skilled 2-way center with size on an elc.

Teams don't analyze their roster when a guy like that is available they just jump on the deal. If you'd take the bpa in the draft you'd trade for Grigorenko. Ken Holland would trade for Grigorenko.
what would he offer?

This whole take BPA and trade later is such a difficult thing to actually manage in reality. Star players are such illiquid assets, if you cant trade the pick at the draft for what you need, maybe you ought to actually pick the player you need.

How many teams have two young top pairing Defencemen? Phx is the only viable target i can think of, and if they arent biting at the draft, who says they ever will.

Like right now do you want to trade any of the big 3 1 for 1 for any defencemen? Anything you would accept the other team would decline.

if its not one for one, youre probably giving up the best player, not getting exactly what you need, and diluting your talent.

Koto is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:14 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2015 All Rights Reserved.