It would be a huge mistake to pass on one of them.
I'd prefer Grig because Gagner is still a question mark as a 2C, but it's really tough to say no to Yakupov's skill and offensive instincts.
I feel if we drafted Yakupov he could make Gagner a better player, that's how good he is. But my god, that would be a small top 6.
Size just isn't as important as it once was with the changes in the NHL over the last few years. size is nice don't gt me wrong but we have seen what the team looks like when Eberle, Hall and Gagner are on their games. Add Yakupov and RNH and things gt very scary for the opposition.
This whole take BPA and trade later is such a difficult thing to actually manage in reality. Star players are such illiquid assets, if you cant trade the pick at the draft for what you need, maybe you ought to actually pick the player you need.
How many teams have two young top pairing Defencemen? Phx is the only viable target i can think of, and if they arent biting at the draft, who says they ever will.
Like right now do you want to trade any of the big 3 1 for 1 for any defencemen? Anything you would accept the other team would decline.
if its not one for one, youre probably giving up the best player, not getting exactly what you need, and diluting your talent.
Who's to say that Dumba is the player we need? Lots of people "needed" Brule when he was drafted, who really "needs" him now? In case you don't get my point - Dumba isn't a proven nhl defenseman right now let alone an impact defenseman.
If he isn't the bpa, and he doesn't have the most trade value, then he's not necessarily our best bet for acquiring a top flight defenseman.
Right now if you own the rights to Grigorenko, offering him in trade is not considered a non-starter for 90% of the players in the nhl. Look at all the top 2 drafted centers from the last 50 years. A gm eyeing that list is like a starving dog looking at lambchops.
Who's to say that Dumba is the player we need? Lots of people "needed" Brule when he was drafted, who really "needs" him now? In case you don't get my point - Dumba isn't a proven nhl defenseman right now let alone an impact defenseman.
If he isn't the bpa, and he doesn't have the most trade value, then he's not necessarily our best bet for acquiring a top flight defenseman.
Right now if you own the rights to Grigorenko, offering him in trade is not considered a non-starter for 90% of the players in the nhl. Look at all the top 2 drafted centers from the last 50 years. A gm eyeing that list is like a starving dog looking at lambchops.
Agreed in full. You don't draft by need in any circumstances that high in the draft.
This whole take BPA and trade later is such a difficult thing to actually manage in reality. Star players are such illiquid assets, if you cant trade the pick at the draft for what you need, maybe you ought to actually pick the player you need.
How many teams have two young top pairing Defencemen? Phx is the only viable target i can think of, and if they arent biting at the draft, who says they ever will.
Like right now do you want to trade any of the big 3 1 for 1 for any defencemen? Anything you would accept the other team would decline.
if its not one for one, youre probably giving up the best player, not getting exactly what you need, and diluting your talent.
I don't think superstar BPA picks are really illiquid assets.
True that once you have them in your stable you don't want to get rid of them because they are so good and have so much potential... BUT don't tell me that if the Oilers did want to get rid of one of Hall, Eberle, RNH (and Grigs/Yakupov if they land one of them)... that there wouldn't be 29 other GM's picking up the phone and listening to those offers.
Let's say the Oilers want Weber badly... if they have drafted Yakupov, they shop him to Nashville and I guarantee they listen to that offer.
Let's say the Oilers choose Murray instead because even though he might not be BPA, he's a better fit for what they theoretically need (help on D)... so now they have a promising young dman prospect who's probably at least 2-3 years from being a major factor on the defense.
Simply put... BPA all the way and the tough part is then admittedly of course letting go of those super high end assets. But it's exactly those super high end assets that A) are superb trading material and B) will make this team more attractive for other players and UFAs around the league to come to Edmonton and join this team in becoming a true SC contender.
I see absolutely no possible downside to taking Yakupov/Grigorenko if they are still available when the Oilers choose. Short of Yakupuv or Grigorenko coming right out and saying "I'll never play in Edmonton for all the gold in Fort Knox"... you take one of them and worry about fixing the D in some other way. Tambo needs to earn his money somehow anyway.
Another thing about not picking BPA... it effectively neuters your scouting staff. Their job is to choose the best players possible for each draft spot. Why take that job away from them
and just choose players you "think" you need going forward rather than the absolute best players the scouting staff think are available.
The GM's job is then to re-arrange those top assets and figure out how to best develop and or trade the prospects that the scouts have worked to procure.
Choosing anything but BPA, especially in a rebuild situation where this team is in no way a contender and is certainly not just an 18 year old away from a cup (far from it) is doing a disservice to the scouting department and letting Tambo and Lowe off the hook when it's their job to fix the many holes in the roster... which has essentially nothing to do with which player is selected with their 1st round pick(s).
Another thing about not picking BPA... it effectively neuters your scouting staff. Their job is to choose the best players possible for each draft spot. Why take that job away from them
and just choose players you "think" you need going forward rather than the absolute best players the scouting staff think are available.
The GM's job is then to re-arrange those top assets and figure out how to best develop and or trade the prospects that the scouts have worked to procure.
Choosing anything but BPA, especially in a rebuild situation where this team is in no way a contender and is certainly not just an 18 year old away from a cup (far from it) is doing a disservice to the scouting department and letting Tambo and Lowe off the hook when it's their job to fix the many holes in the roster... which has essentially nothing to do with which player is selected with their 1st round pick(s).
wouldn't it be the opposite? shouldn't you use your scouts to justify not taking the consensus bpa....if you're just going to take bpa you could fire your scouts and go by nhl rankings.
wouldn't it be the opposite? shouldn't you use your scouts to justify not taking the consensus bpa....if you're just going to take bpa you could fire your scouts and go by nhl rankings.
BPA would be determined by your scouts.
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If you are offended by this post, it's probably because you're ugly.
Size just isn't as important as it once was with the changes in the NHL over the last few years. size is nice don't gt me wrong but we have seen what the team looks like when Eberle, Hall and Gagner are on their games. Add Yakupov and RNH and things gt very scary for the opposition.
You're right.
How often do you see RNH and Eberle get hit? Very uncommon.
in Yakupov's scouting report it also mentions he's super evasive and virtually never gets hit.
Yakupov IMO is just a better version of Hall. He's a better, stronger skater, maybe not as fasr but he doesn't fall easily. He's got a better shot, better vision, just as much drive and phyisicality... So he's a bit cocky and he's Russian but people are missing the bigger picture here.
Grigorenko is obviously less flashy than Kuznetsov but his defensive game is miles ahead. He goes before Kuznetsov any day of the week, same with Yakupov. Kuznetsov has looked great in the WJC but I don't know about him yet, could end up being good but I see these two Russians being better
Quote:
Originally Posted by jadeddog
this is pretty much my thinking as well on yakupov
i've always said that yakupov is a more skilled, less physical, version of hall... he doesn't seem to have as many intangibles, but has more puck skill/better hands
i can't comment on comparing kuznetsov v grigorenko, as i've only seen kuznetsov in the WJC... grigorneko is fully 2 years younger though, so one would think that he would have the upper hand, since their play at this point seems pretty close
if we finish 2nd, grigorenko is my guy and i'm happy to get him... but man o man would it be nice to win the lottery and be able to take yakupov... a top-6 of hall/gagner/eberle and XXX/RNH/yakupov would be unbelievably skilled, but might have problems with physical teams
Here are what scouts/writers had to say about Yakupov:
1. Nail Yakupov - Sarnia Sting
Received Votes From: 11 out of 11
Highest Placement/Lowest Placement: Unanimously Ranked 1st (11 out of 11)
Comments: With Galchenyuk injured, it's been the Yakupov show all season long. This ranking obviously comes as no surprise. He's the total package offensively, as David Burstyn alluded to. "His skating especially his diangle cuts and first step quickness are sensational. He has only played 29 games this season but currently has the highest points per game with 1.89 in the entire OHL. When he is on the ice he flat out intimidates the opposition. He can blow right by a defender or he can deliver a razor sharp pass to a team mate for a goal. Has the most developed offensive hockey sense of any prospect in the draft." You aren't going to find any disagreement there, with comments ranging from, "a pure game-breaker. He'll be the face of a franchise in desperate need of one," to "his ability to make skilled plays at high speeds is unmatched by anyone else is the league, let along any other draft eligible players." The only real concern moving forward has to be his ability to play the game he does, at his size, at the NHL level. One contributor sums up the concerns of a few quite nicely. "I have some concerns about how his body will hold up in the NHL with his playing style but that’s a risk a team will have to take." After all, "Yakupov is a game changer, and the only one in this class that can change a game on his own," as said by another contributor.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nafrelio
I can't answer your question, but just wanted to add how much I wished we took Kuznetzov. The Oiler scouts were very high on him. However, Washington fans are crapping their pants right now because he very recently openly commented that he'd be willing to stay in the KHL if he got a 10 year contract! I know Yakupov and Grigs are already in NA, but this does add to the mysterious "Russian factor".
Thanks for responses & the info! Please keep them coming!
Sounded like Yakupov is fairly certain to be better than Kuznetsov, but Grigorenko is not as clear cut.
If Kuznetsov decided not to come over to the NHL next year, it's certainly tough time for Caps fan consider their team is completely falling off the rail now and may not even make the playoff this year.
It'd be pretty wild if edmonton ended winning the draft lottery and getting their third straight number 1 overall pick.
Hall-RNH-Yakupov ... seriously? The no.1 overall pick line.. would just be insane to watch. I don't care who you like to root for, this would be the most entertaining team to watch. Possibly start trading guys like Gagner, MPS, Hemsky, Smyth for some Dmen and Goaltending if Dubnyk doesn't pan out (which I doubt he will). Even if they land Grigorenko or Murray (which they absolutely should) I think edmonton is in an awesome position. If they can't win some cups in the next few years it'd be a huge disappointment.
There had been whispers over the past month that all may not be wonderful when it comes to the scouting world's perception of Grigorenko's competitiveness, but the whispers have grown into full-blown skepticism in some circles. "He could fall right off the map," said one scout who asserted that his club won't be considering him in the first round.
"He doesn't want to compete. If he's there at 25 and we are picking, we go by him."
His concerns were echoed by another eastern conference scout who insisted his team will not select the talented Russian no matter where they end up in the standings. "He's a dog. Take a look at what games Grigorenko gets his points. He gets a handful the other night against PEI. none at Moncton, and one assist (in the nationally televised game) in Saint John. A couple of weeks ago in Rimouski he's minus 6. He scares the (crap) out of me." While there's no denying his skill level, and his 73 points in 39 games as a QMJHL rookie are a testament to his offensive abilities, there will be a lot of teams watching him closely in the playoffs to see whether he has the competitive streak scouts like to see in their top five prospects. As of right now a number of teams have several players ranked ahead of him, and that trend will continue if he does not learn to compete at a higher level.
Yikes. Does anyone still want Grigorenko after reading this?
wouldn't it be the opposite? shouldn't you use your scouts to justify not taking the consensus bpa....if you're just going to take bpa you could fire your scouts and go by nhl rankings.
No because you need your scouts to tell you a guy like Gernat is actually the best player available
I'm pretty sure Grigorenko spit in McCagg's face or Mikhail took his daughter to prom. Maybe his wife too. Has anyone else heard these things from anyone but McCagg?
I'm pretty sure Grigorenko spit in McCagg's face or Mikhail took his daughter to prom. Maybe his wife too. Has anyone else heard these things from anyone but McCagg?
I'm pretty sure Grigorenko spit in McCagg's face or Mikhail took his daughter to prom. Maybe his wife too. Has anyone else heard these things from anyone but McCagg?
Not nearly as harsh, but this was McKenzie's take.
Weaknesses: Has to continue working on his all-around game, needs to bring more consistency, will take some shifts and games off. NHL upside: Has been compared to Viktor Kozlov in terms of his size/skill package, but also because of his inconsistency. Has the capability of being a skilled number one center at the NHL level, but will he have the desire?
Not nearly as harsh, but this was McKenzie's take.
Weaknesses: Has to continue working on his all-around game, needs to bring more consistency, will take some shifts and games off. NHL upside: Has been compared to Viktor Kozlov in terms of his size/skill package, but also because of his inconsistency. Has the capability of being a skilled number one center at the NHL level, but will he have the desire?
The write-ups on Bob's list were written by McCagg.
