It wasn't so long ago that Oiler fans were bickering back and forth about players in the draft saying "man I hope that he somehow slips in the draft so that we can get him" and "are you insane, no chance that guy falls out of the top 10".
And what about the perrenial "what will it take to move up in the draft?"
I miss those days. I'm so sick of the top end of the draft I could scream. This sucks b i g t i m e .
And I hate that saying "Be careful what you wish for."
****! (in all caps)
There's actually been a lot of discussions how we can move up the draft to land another 1RP by trading some players. It would open the possibilities of drafting Grigorenko+Maatta or Dumba+Gaunce. We'd be in a *much* better shape starting the next season. I'm not holding my breath but there is a slight possibility that Tambellini will get lucky and won't screw it up.
I suspect that if we take a dman with the 3/4 pick, we're taking Henrik Samuelsson with the 33/34 pick. Book it.
Don`t think he lasts the long. Lots of eyes on him since joining the Oil Kings. A deep playoff run Im expecting will just get him more exposure to his great play.
As I said... they are still young (along with the other prospects I mentioned), but so far the dmen in the cupboard just seem to be tracking a little better than the forwards.
You are right, they certainly are likely getting a lot of 3rd/4th line duty on OKC and not getting plum PP time... but saying that, I also actually have listened and haven't heard anyone with glowing reports on them either. I'm hopeful they develop into solid players BUT my argument is that nothing is "in the bag". I get the feeling that many think the forwards are an area of depth within the organization but I think that's not necessarily true beyond the obvious big names that are already on the NHL roster.
Listen to Nelson. He has been very positive about both Hamilton and Pitlick, particularly Pitlick.
Belleville Bulls center Brendan Gaunce has a singular focus, and that's to someday play in the NHL.
He does, though, have something of a second career if things don't work -- acting.
"I was in three plays when I was younger," Gaunce told NHL.com, a bit embarrassed. "I like it but I don't think it's my fallback. When I was in Grade 5 we did some Shakespeare play, and when I was in Grade 8 we did 'Hairspray,' and last year as rookies we had to do the 'Mean Girls' dance in front of the school. (Acting) is more nerve-wracking than hockey."
Gaunce shouldn't worry about a need to trade his skates for acting lessons. He seems just fine on the ice -- and scouts certainly seem to have liked what they've seen so far.
"Brendan is a real high-energy guy," NHL Central Scouting's Chris Edwards told NHL.com. "When he is playing high-energy, when he's battling, when he's getting involved, he's forcing turnovers in the opposition zone. He's got a good skill set that after he wins a puck battle he can make a good pass and set up a play. He creates scoring chances every shift when he's at his best. Every shift he's out there creating things."
The 6-foot-2, 215-pound center leads the Bulls with 59 points in 55 games, and is No. 11 on Central Scouting's midterm ranking of the top North American skaters for the 2012 NHL Draft.
As much as his offensive skills draw attention, it's his well-rounded game that also has earned him the attention of NHL scouts.
"He's a solid two-way guy," Edwards said. "His play doesn't drop off in his own end, that's for sure."
"Interestingly enough, people are questioning his ability to play without the puck, and in my opinion that's what's going to make him an NHL player before any other part of his game," Belleville coach George Burnett told NHL.com. "He's responsible, competes hard, great stick, tenacious, great hockey sense. He understands the game at both ends of the rink. He's a guy that even from his first year (in the OHL), he was often out there against the other team's best players."
Gaunce, who said he tries to model his game after Selke Trophy finalist Jordan Staal of the Pittsburgh Penguins, said he takes as much pride in preventing goals as he does in scoring them.
"That's one thing I learned from a young age from a couple coaches," Gaunce said. "If you can't play defense you're not going to play in the NHL."
Also helping Gaunce learn lessons like that has been his older brother, Cameron, a Colorado Avalanche prospect currently playing with the club's AHL affiliate, the Lake Erie Monsters.
Cameron is four years older, so Brendan has had a great view of his brother as he progressed through the Ontario Hockey League and into his draft year, where he was taken by the Avalanche in the second round of the 2008 Entry Draft.
"There was two big things I saw from what really helped him over the (draft) year," Brendan said. "One was be yourself, because people are going to find out sooner or later how you actually act, so be yourself in every situation. And be humble. And if you use those two things, it'll work out for you if you're a good player. Hopefully that's working out for me right now. I'm just trying to take everything in and not take anything for granted."
Another thing he learned from his brother was how important it was to focus on the task at hand rather than what NHL scouts might be watching him.
"I think that's one skill you need to learn through the year just because it is such a big year," Gaunce said. "If you're having a rough time, a couple games, people are going to be saying stuff about you that you're not mentally tough or whatever it is. That's a skill you have to learn with all the skills on the ice that you're learning throughout the year."
He got a crash course in learning how to ignore the folks who will be deciding his professional future when he took part in the NHL Research, Development and Orientation Camp in August, where he performed in front of a rink full of NHL scouts and general managers.
They were impressed then and have continued to make Belleville a frequent stop on their tours of the Ontario Hockey League.
"I'd say every time there's a lot of scouts in the building, even if it's two, you get more comfortable with it,” Gaunce said. “You're used to it now. The focus I have going into every game is they're watching you to play your game and not try to impress them in any other way. If you play your game, it'll work out for you."
It's certainly been impressive so far.
"Gaunce is probably one of the more well-rounded players in the draft," Guelph Storm defenseman Matthew Finn, a frequent opponent and a player ranked 15th by NHL Central Scouting, said. "He can exploit you offensively. He's got hidden speed there, a big stride and he can burn you. And in the corners as well, he's a big, strong boy, (he is) big in the corners and tough to play against. He can put pucks in the net when he wants. He also shuts down really well."
"He was the second overall pick (in the 2010 OHL draft) for a reason," added Burnett. "We're not naïve to think we're going to see him for four years. He's going to be a high pick this year and it wouldn't surprise me to see him go early in the first round. And even higher than the draft rating might suggest. I know he's amongst the elite forwards in North America. I think he's also a young man that is able to play at both ends. … He's difficult to play against, and he competes hard at both ends of the rink."
Gaunce is a very appealing prospect. He just needs to improve his speed and quickness and he can be either a 1st or 2nd line centre.
Scouting reports rave about his character.......
Love to have him on the Oilers but I don't see us having a chance to draft him. He'll likely go pretty high in the draft (top 10ish) which is to low for our own 1st rounder (1-3) and probably too high if we are able to pick up another 1st rounder for say Hemsky.
i'd rather improve get and get some momentum for next year.
yakupov is literally the last thing we need, as talented as he is.
why, exactly, is yakupov "literally the last thing we need"? we have too many 35-40 goal scorers on the big club? a guy with arguably more talent than hall is somehow not needed?
why, exactly, is yakupov "literally the last thing we need"? we have too many 35-40 goal scorers on the big club? a guy with arguably more talent than hall is somehow not needed?
I'd rather not come dead last and also pick up a future all-star to be our #2 C
I'd stay away from Dumba in the draft for the same reason I didn't like Brule in the draft all those years ago - not enough size to play his style of game in the big league.
He's listed at 6'0 166 or 173 depending on where you look and I understand he'll get bigger, I just don't think that he'll get big enough to play his style of game in the nhl. He also has to put on a lot of upper body strength to defend himself there if he wants to play like that, which will slow him down and make it harder for him to get into position to hit players with nhl speed and agility... I don't see a fit there.
He's blasting 16 yr old whl kids impressively but if he wants to play in the nhl he has to lose that aspect of his game and I doubt that he will. If he played more like Murray, sure.
I don't draft him top 20.
Craig Button has him #2 overall and Grigorenko at 8th. I think he's putting his career as a draft expert on tsn in jeopardy with his "off the board" style.
I'd stay away from Dumba in the draft for the same reason I didn't like Brule in the draft all those years ago - not enough size to play his style of game in the big league.
He's listed at 6'0 166 or 173 depending on where you look and I understand he'll get bigger, I just don't think that he'll get big enough to play his style of game in the nhl. He also has to put on a lot of upper body strength to defend himself there if he wants to play like that, which will slow him down and make it harder for him to get into position to hit players with nhl speed and agility... I don't see a fit there.
He's blasting 16 yr old whl kids impressively but if he wants to play in the nhl he has to lose that aspect of his game and I doubt that he will. If he played more like Murray, sure.
I don't draft him top 20.
Craig Button has him #2 overall and Grigorenko at 8th. I think he's putting his career as a draft expert on tsn in jeopardy with his "off the board" style.
He's 6'0'' 183lbs right now and most think he'll put on another 20-25lbs.
Would you have said a 6'1'' 190lb Chris Chelios or a 5'11'' 209lb Darius Kasparaitis would't be able to play a physical game in the NHL?
Dumba is not an off the board pick in the top 3-5.
Dumba's open-ice hitting isn't even his main selling point. I have to say, you're way out there on this.
I'd stay away from Dumba in the draft for the same reason I didn't like Brule in the draft all those years ago - not enough size to play his style of game in the big league.
He's listed at 6'0 166 or 173 depending on where you look and I understand he'll get bigger, I just don't think that he'll get big enough to play his style of game in the nhl. He also has to put on a lot of upper body strength to defend himself there if he wants to play like that, which will slow him down and make it harder for him to get into position to hit players with nhl speed and agility... I don't see a fit there.
He's blasting 16 yr old whl kids impressively but if he wants to play in the nhl he has to lose that aspect of his game and I doubt that he will. If he played more like Murray, sure.
I don't draft him top 20.
Craig Button has him #2 overall and Grigorenko at 8th. I think he's putting his career as a draft expert on tsn in jeopardy with his "off the board" style.
Dumba is far more than a hitter. The guy is tied for number two in the WHL in goal scoring for defenceman with 17 despite the fact that he won't turn 18 until the end of July. He is third in scoring for the Rebels. Dumba is an excellent skater and has significant leadership qualities. The kid also has amazing stamina.
It's somewhat ironic that you mention blasting 16 year olds. In fact most of the guys he ends up "blasting" are probably 2 years older than he is and more physically mature.
Given his age he could well play at 6'1" 200-210 lbs. He would primarily be an offensive defensman but one who also has an added dimension. No chance he goes out of the top 10.
He's 6'0'' 183lbs right now and most think he'll put on another 20-25lbs.
Would you have said a 6'1'' 190lb Chris Chelios or a 5'11'' 209lb Darius Kasparaitis would't be able to play a physical game in the NHL?
Dumba is not an off the board pick in the top 3-5.
Dumba's open-ice hitting isn't even his main selling point. I have to say, you're way out there on this.
It would help a lot if the reports included bodyfat percentage. A player with 180lbs 10% bodyfat is about as strong as a player with 200lbs 20% bodyfat. It's also quite easy for the 180 pounder to gain 20lbs of fat, while gaining same amount of muscle is much, much harder.
It would help a lot if the reports included bodyfat percentage. A player with 180lbs 10% bodyfat is about as strong as a player with 200lbs 20% bodyfat. It's also quite easy for the 180 pounder to gain 20lbs of fat, while gaining same amount of muscle is much, much harder.
Well, Dumba is very well conditioned. He plays pretty much every other shift. I would assume he has a pretty low body fat %.
He's 6'0'' 183lbs right now and most think he'll put on another 20-25lbs.
Would you have said a 6'1'' 190lb Chris Chelios or a 5'11'' 209lb Darius Kasparaitis would't be able to play a physical game in the NHL?
Dumba is not an off the board pick in the top 3-5.
Dumba's open-ice hitting isn't even his main selling point. I have to say, you're way out there on this.
Don't forget Niklas Kronwall: 6'0" 190lb. Dumba will almost certainly end up bigger than that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wyrm
It would help a lot if the reports included bodyfat percentage. A player with 180lbs 10% bodyfat is about as strong as a player with 200lbs 20% bodyfat. It's also quite easy for the 180 pounder to gain 20lbs of fat, while gaining same amount of muscle is much, much harder.
Dumba is a notorious gym rat. He's likely already incredibly strong for his size and will surely put on more muscle as he finishes growing.
Dumba is the same height roughly as PK Subban, so I think he'll still be physical at the NHL level.
He may not be physically dominant every night, but he likely will demolish more than a few people.
That said he will have to likely gain 10-15 pounds of muscle to even think of playing that way in the NHL and that's probably going to require 1-2 years in the gym.
Rumours have it that Hemsky could be headed to NSH, a deal that could see another first round draft choice coming to EDM (among other assets). That being said, I'm curious to know which d-man you'd target with:
And here are B-Macs d-man profiles for those ranked among the top 30:
Ryan Murray
Has been highly touted and scouted for years, already representing Canada at three major U-18 tournaments and this year's WJC. Was barely 15 when he made his WHL debut in the 2008-09 WHL playoffs. Strengths: A real 'Steady Eddie' on the blue line; rarely makes a mistake and displays a poise well beyond his years. Smart, dependable rearguard who will be on the ice protecting leads at the end of games. Strong skater with a powerful stride. A team leader with high character. He moves the puck with short, accurate passes. Hard to beat one-on-one. Weaknesses: He's not a punishing guy who will provide a physical presence while his offensive skills may be limited and he may be more of a stay-at home defender. NHL upside: A No. 2 or No. 3 defenceman with leadership qualities who will be relied upon to shut down team's top players, kill penalties and protect leads.
Mathew Dumba
Scouts have been marveling over Dumba's offensive skills since he first stepped on WHL ice in 2010 as a 15-year-old. Led all WHL rookie defencemen with 15 goals last season and notched 14 this campaign before the Top prospects game. Led the 2011 U-17 tournament in scoring, collecting 12 assists in six games. Strengths: One of the draft's best skaters and gets his team out of trouble with his wheels. Has a hard point shot, considered one of the best shooters in the draft. Strong passing skills and vision, adept at finding shooting and passing lanes, looks for the big hit and not afraid to lay out opponents. Weaknesses: A risk taker who will cost his team some goals with his over aggressiveness. Will need to add some muscle to play a robust style at the NHL level. Lack of size will cause him some problems down low and in front of the net. NHL upside: Draws many comparisons to PK Subban in skating, shot and risk taking, but may have more overall sense. Has the skills to be a power play quarterback and top two defenceman.
Jacob Trouba
Has spent the past two seasons with the USNDTP, quickly advancing from the U-17 program to the U-18 team last season. Was one of the better defencemen for the U.S. at the recent WJC, cementing his status as a top prospect for the draft. Committed to the University of Michigan for 2012. Strengths: A mobile defenceman with length, strength and range. Plays a physical game and not afraid to take a run at an opponent. Has some offensive skills, is a good passer with vision and a hard point shot. Weaknesses: there are some questions about his overall hockey sense, needs to learn to rein in the physical play at times and play with composure. NHL upside: Has the physical package to be a top two defenceman in the NHL if he learns the finer points of playing defence.
Morgan Rielly
A graduate of the famed Notre Dame Hounds Midget program, he was averaging a point per game when he tore up his knee in early September sidelining him for the remainder of the season. Strengths: An elite puck rushing defenceman with creativity, vision and hands. Competitive and decent in his position game, he has good hockey sense and instincts. Strong skater with good mobility. Weaknesses: Not overly big or physical, described by one scout as a '5-11 rover' and will have to continue to refine his defensive play. His knee injury will concern some teams and questions will arise concerning how it may affect his mobility. NHL upside: Offensive skills will intrigue several teams in the Top 20 despite his knee injury and he'll get a solid opportunity to be an offensive defenceman in the NHL.
Griffin Reinhart
Son of former NHL defenceman Paul Reinhart and brother of fellow WHLers Sam and Max. Has reached the 50-point mark in his WHL career before the age of 18, a rare feat for a 6-4 WHL defenceman. Strengths: Very few 6-4 blueliners can skate and handle the puck like Reinhart, and those attributes alone will intrigue lots of scouts. Has a hard point shot that often finds its mark, good passing skills. Weaknesses: Does not always play with an abundance of passion and drive. Could be more assertive physically, and more consistent in his effort. NHL upside: Has been compared by some scouts to Dougie Hamilton. Has the size, skill and skating ability to be a top two NHL defenceman.
Cody Ceci
Already competing in his third full OHL season, and is quickly approaching the 100-point mark for his career. Came close to making Canada's WJC team, was one of the final cuts. Strengths: Smart, poised two-way defender with excellent hockey sense. Has the ability to break a trap with smart, crisp outlet passes. Reads the play well and is sound in his positional game. Has a good heavy shot from the point, can play some power play minutes as well as penalty killing – he's a minute eater. Weaknesses: Skating is all right but still needs some refinement. His hands are average - he won't be stickhandling through the opposing team. He doesn't play a physical game and won't punish the opponent. NHL upside: Not skilled enough to be a top power play guy in the NHL or physical enough to be a shutdown defenceman, but his smarts and overall game could land him the third or fourth spot on an NHL depth chart.
Olli Maatta
He was four months into his 16th year when he played a regular shift on defence for Finland in the world junior championship. Selected first overall by the London Knights in the 2010 CHL Import Draft. Strengths: Safe, solid puck moving defenceman. Strong, competes, good positionally, moves the puck smartly, has good hockey sense, good leadership skills and character. Weaknesses: Doesn't look like a great skater, his stride lacks smoothness. Won't put up big numbers offensively and has limited skill level with the puck with average size. NHL upside: Projected as a steady, stay-at-home blueliner who usually makes the smart first pass. A solid third or fourth defenceman with leadership skills and smarts.
Slater Koekkoek
Won a Gold Medal with Team Ontario at the U-17's last winter, then represented Canada at the U-18's as an underage defenceman a few months later. Koekkoek is sidelined for the rest of the year after having season-ending shoulder surgery. Strengths: Strong character traits and leadership qualities. A big, solid, steady mature player, solid work ethic. Can lug the puck out of trouble, tough to play against in his own zone, plays a spirited, physical style. Mature for his age. Weaknesses: Tries to do too much at times, not a point producer or play creator, hockey sense is average in offensive end, has some issues when he's under pressure. Has some work to do on his backwards skating. NHL upside: Has the intangibles to be a solid defensive defenceman in the pro game, a reliable fourth or fifth defenceman with leadership qualities and some grit.
Derrick Pouliot
Selected first overall by the Winter Hawks in the 2009 WHL Bantam Draft, he had a regular role as a rookie defenceman last season during Portland's lengthy playoff run. Strengths: One of the draft's better puck-rushing blueliners, likes to join the play and create offence. Has a good stick, good skater, decent puck mover. Weaknesses: He can play a little too casually, suspect on his puck moving at times when he tries to do too much. An undersized rearguard with little physical presence - a container who will need to add 15-20 pounds of muscle. Can be inconsistent with his decision making. NHL upside: May be a secondary offensive defenceman who sees some power play time, a No. 3 or No. 4 puck-moving defender.
Brady Skjei
Strengths: A great skater for his size, likes to support the play from the back end, above-average puck mover, can lug the puck if needed, good hockey sense, gets point shots on the net, passing skills are okay, can play on the power play. Has improved quite a bit in last few months, hasn't reached his full potential yet. Weaknesses: Not a hard-nosed kid, won't play a physical style despite his size and needs to add some muscle. Not an overly creative player and his offensive production may not be great - he needs work on his consistency. NHL upside: May have the size/skating ability to be given top three minutes on an NHL blue line someday.
Matt Finn
He's the top scoring rearguard on his Guelph OHL team with 33 points in 42 games and is already an assistant captain. Strengths: A competitive, gritty six-foot defenceman with some offensive ability. He cares and he wants to win. He has good hockey sense at both ends of the rink, has decent speed and makes a solid outlet pass. A strong point shot and stellar leadership qualities. Weaknesses – His skating is a little choppy and he gets in a bit of trouble under pressure. Not big enough to be a physical blueliner at the next level. No real standout dimension physically. NHL upside: Lacks the physical tools to be a top-three defenceman, but he may be versatile enough to be Top 4 with some refinement.
I'd stay away from Dumba in the draft for the same reason I didn't like Brule in the draft all those years ago - not enough size to play his style of game in the big league.
He's listed at 6'0 166 or 173 depending on where you look and I understand he'll get bigger, I just don't think that he'll get big enough to play his style of game in the nhl. He also has to put on a lot of upper body strength to defend himself there if he wants to play like that, which will slow him down and make it harder for him to get into position to hit players with nhl speed and agility... I don't see a fit there.
He's blasting 16 yr old whl kids impressively but if he wants to play in the nhl he has to lose that aspect of his game and I doubt that he will. If he played more like Murray, sure.
I don't draft him top 20.
Craig Button has him #2 overall and Grigorenko at 8th. I think he's putting his career as a draft expert on tsn in jeopardy with his "off the board" style.
Well, I guess by that criteria you can't accurately assess any CHL player then considering they're all playing against 16 year olds at some point in time, right.
