This is the hockey setup at the Fieldhouse in indiana. (the model for Barclays) Capacity is 14,500 without selling the black sections, because you cant see the goal from them. If you were to sell the black sections, capacity would increase, but sight lines from those sections would be horrible.
Thank you but every site I have found still says 14.5K with no distinction for additional obstructed view, so not sure whether it is or not still, but will keep looking... if you have a link that backs up what you are saying please let me know, Indiana field house seats 14.4K for hockey as per wiki, couldn't find anything that said additional obstructed seating. So I still don't know. I saw one story that said they will have to pancake/fold up all the seats at one end to fit it horseshoe style, which I assume is the blacked out area, so not sure how usable/verticle that collapsed area would actually be.
On a separate note but related note, Post ran an article about the traffic nightmares and stacked parking for Net games
the more i hear the less i like brooklyn..hoping for a miracle for nassau or suffolk or queens... perfect storm with economy, politicians, team failures, ownership...am I alone in feeling that if we had been a decent playoff team for the last few years we would not be in this spot?
Does Brooklyn really offer the revenue streams for Wang that would lure him there for long term? why won't he just pick up and move to seattle and get a real stadium (cable is the one ace in the hole to not move).
Why don't you PM me the blueprints of the arena you must have access to and I will take a look.
You tell me your experience building arenas. I'll tell you mine. It ain't extensive, but it was thorough. And basic concrete/foundation/form work leads me to believe YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT WHATSOEVER.
I have been with a few girls who "weren't that kinda girl" and then they were "I've never done that before"
It's very different with the Coliseum since it has had problems as early as late 1990s. I think staying in the renovated Coliseum is the last thing the Isles want to do. When mangano announced he will give an exclusive time for wang to come up with a PRIVATELY funded Coliseum, the Isles and Nassau officially entered the "end game" (Phase3)
End game is two fold: 1. End the differences between the sides involved, Isles, nassau and town of Hempstead (who didn't show up at the legislature meeting on 2/14/12)
2. End the relationship between the Isles, nassau and TOH altogether.
The second option is more likely since TOH is NOT likely to expand the zoning to justify a privately built Coliseum. Would be interesting to see the reactions of Nassau and TOH if the Isles announce a stadium deal elsewhere before 2015.
It's very different with the Coliseum since it has had problems as early as late 1990s. I think staying in the renovated Coliseum is the last thing the Isles want to do. When mangano announced he will give an exclusive time for wang to come up with a PRIVATELY funded Coliseum, the Isles and Nassau officially entered the "end game" (Phase3)
End game is two fold: 1. End the differences between the sides involved, Isles, nassau and town of Hempstead (who didn't show up at the legislature meeting on 2/14/12)
2. End the relationship between the Isles, nassau and TOH altogether.
The second option is more likely since TOH is NOT likely to expand the zoning to justify a privately built Coliseum. Would be interesting to see the reactions of Nassau and TOH if the Isles announce a stadium deal elsewhere before 2015.
Just an FYI, but you do know the Nassau Coliseum plot was approved for use in 1970/1 (I don't feel like looking it up) for the arena and does not need ToH's study nor its approval. It's already zoned.
The parking lot never was, thus, Murray.
So there was no reason for Murray to show up. She's not involved whatsoever.
"I think staying in the renovated Coliseum is the last thing the Isles want to do."
Please tell me what revenues Wang gets from NVMC? Now what does he get at Ratner's building? Wilpon's? He won't pay for his own arena, so I doubt he's gonna pay for a share of someone else's arena. So......he makes more money in a renovated Coliseum if he bothers to book it.
Or he can make 41 nights of revenue in a 14,500 seat arena where a nice chunk are unusable seats, the team is not guaranteed to sell out and he gets no other streams of income.
I think staying at a building you have control over and make all revenue generated beats renting from someone else.
Just an FYI, but you do know the Nassau Coliseum plot was approved for use in 1970/1 (I don't feel like looking it up) for the arena and does not need ToH's study nor its approval. It's already zoned.
The parking lot never was, thus, Murray.
So there was no reason for Murray to show up. She's not involved whatsoever.
"I think staying in the renovated Coliseum is the last thing the Isles want to do."
Please tell me what revenues Wang gets from NVMC? Now what does he get at Ratner's building? Wilpon's? He won't pay for his own arena, so I doubt he's gonna pay for a share of someone else's arena. So......he makes more money in a renovated Coliseum if he bothers to book it.
Or he can make 41 nights of revenue in a 14,500 seat arena where a nice chunk are unusable seats, the team is not guaranteed to sell out and he gets no other streams of income.
I think staying at a building you have control over and make all revenue generated beats renting from someone else.
Or is this a train thing?
Wang rakes in all the revenues in NVMC at this time. However, that arrangement will run out in 2015 where Al D'Amato will likely try to do get SMG involved once again or his other buttkisser company (perhaps those ABLI developers) to run it which would likely bleed bunch of cash from the Isles. WHY didn't Nassau County legislature change the old arrangement where SMG got EVERYTHING in non-Isles events plus concessions at every event? Why were the Republicans upset when Suozzi decided his parting shot was to rip apart the old SMG deal that gave the Republicans kick backs? One reason why the publicly funded new Coliseum was given the green light last year was because Mangano's pimps (Mondello and Mangano) felt they can get kick backs.
What's the guarantee the Isles will rent from the Wilpons? Given NYC's history of floating bonds for stadiums, I think the Isles have a much better chance of getting a publicly funded stadium unlike Nassau. In Brooklyn, a temporary arrangement is more than likely better than what the Isles will get in Nassau past 2015.
Thank you but every site I have found still says 14.5K with no distinction for additional obstructed view, so not sure whether it is or not still, but will keep looking... if you have a link that backs up what you are saying please let me know, Indiana field house seats 14.4K for hockey as per wiki, couldn't find anything that said additional obstructed seating. So I still don't know. I saw one story that said they will have to pancake/fold up all the seats at one end to fit it horseshoe style, which I assume is the blacked out area, so not sure how usable/verticle that collapsed area would actually be.
On a separate note but related note, Post ran an article about the traffic nightmares and stacked parking for Net games
the more i hear the less i like brooklyn..hoping for a miracle for nassau or suffolk or queens... perfect storm with economy, politicians, team failures, ownership...am I alone in feeling that if we had been a decent playoff team for the last few years we would not be in this spot?
Does Brooklyn really offer the revenue streams for Wang that would lure him there for long term? why won't he just pick up and move to seattle and get a real stadium (cable is the one ace in the hole to not move).
However, arena officials yesterday confirmed the Barclays Center will be fitted with an NHL-regulation size arena when it opens in Sept. 2012, although they declined comment on potential interest in the Islanders.
The arena holds 18,000 seats for basketball, but some seating would have to be removed to accommodate hockey. Sources said the arena could hold about 14,500 seats for hockey.
Perhaps 14,500 seats is the capacity AFTER obstructed view seats are taken out.
You tell me your experience building arenas. I'll tell you mine. It ain't extensive, but it was thorough. And basic concrete/foundation/form work leads me to believe YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT WHATSOEVER.
So you know with 100% certainty that re configuring luxury boxes would not change obstructed view seats into unobstructed view? You know because your extensive knowledge equates to a one size fits all certainty.Your knowledge of all arena construction tells you that changing the width of an aisle could not possibly add seats or that any number of things could not be tweaked?
Of course none of this could be done in Brooklyn but of course it could be done in Nassau.
Transparent! : laugh:
I think I will leave it to those who design this particular building to see if it can accommodate hockey. Common sense tells us that if they were to put a hockey team in full time they would have a reasonable expectation of an NHL quality arena
Its 14,500 unobstructed seats Twine. The obstructed seats (behind one of the goals) have to be removed from the arena to fit a 200 ft long sheet of ice in, or are just above those seats and go unsold because the view is too horrible. Similar arenas like Indiana, San Antonio have an unobstructed capacity of 14,500 with one end unsold. If obstructed seats were to be sold capacity would be about 15,500 or 16,000. But the obstructed seats are utterly worthless since you can only see one net.
I'm gonna have to go ahead and disagree. Just speculation on my part but I think you basically have the problem Phoenix had when they played at America West Arena. Capacity for basketball is around 18,000. You take out the seats in each 'end-zone' to fit the rink and you are down to 14,500. However, the rink on both ends extends too close to the upper tier of seating rendering seats behind the goal in the upper tier to yield only a partial view of the rink. I could be wrong but I do believe that is the case.
I'm gonna have to go ahead and disagree. Just speculation on my part but I think you basically have the problem Phoenix had when they played at America West Arena. Capacity for basketball is around 18,000. You take out the seats in each 'end-zone' to fit the rink and you are down to 14,500. However, the rink on both ends extends too close to the upper tier of seating rendering seats behind the goal in the upper tier to yield only a partial view of the rink. I could be wrong but I do believe that is the case.
I also think if you sit low enough at msg that is also a problem no ?
However, arena officials yesterday confirmed the Barclays Center will be fitted with an NHL-regulation size arena when it opens in Sept. 2012, although they declined comment on potential interest in the Islanders.
The arena holds 18,000 seats for basketball, but some seating would have to be removed to accommodate hockey. Sources said the arena could hold about 14,500 seats for hockey.
Perhaps 14,500 seats is the capacity AFTER obstructed view seats are taken out.
Maybe but I am not sure what the number is. Obviously they will have to remove some seats because the rink is much bigger than the court. I don't know how many of the 3,500 seats removed can be retained for obstructed view if any, or if some of the other seating remaining 14.5K seats will now be obstructed because the playing surface has now been extended further to one end (some of the further back seats may have partial loss of site due to overhangs or other angles if the rink is extended)...I just don't know and it is an honest question. Also how obstructed is obstructed, the last two rows of NVMC if i recall used to be called obstructed because you couldnt see the top of the scoreboard.
Maybe but I am not sure what the number is. Obviously they will have to remove some seats because the rink is much bigger than the court. I don't know how many of the 3,500 seats removed can be retained for obstructed view if any, or if some of the other seating remaining 14.5K seats will now be obstructed because the playing surface has now been extended further to one end (some of the further back seats may have partial loss of site due to overhangs or other angles if the rink is extended)...I just don't know and it is an honest question. Also how obstructed is obstructed, the last two rows of NVMC if i recall used to be called obstructed because you couldnt see the top of the scoreboard.
Yea i sat way back once. I was unable to see the Scoreboard. THe playing surface was fine. A little far back but hey i could see the game.
So you know with 100% certainty that re configuring luxury boxes would not change obstructed view seats into unobstructed view? You know because your extensive knowledge equates to a one size fits all certainty.Your knowledge of all arena construction tells you that changing the width of an aisle could not possibly add seats or that any number of things could not be tweaked?
Of course none of this could be done in Brooklyn but of course it could be done in Nassau.
Transparent! : laugh:
I think I will leave it to those who design this particular building to see if it can accommodate hockey. Common sense tells us that if they were to put a hockey team in full time they would have a reasonable expectation of an NHL quality arena
dig deeper.....c'mon, you can pull something juicy outta your ***. They said time and again they weren't building it for hockey. No intention of hockey. Oops...it's built and maybe we can have hockey. We're playing hockey there. Ah well, coulda designed it better.
now once again, can we just move some seats around?
Yeah, just move some seats around. Maybe we'll have 12,000 good ones. And partial revenue so we will never spend above the cap floor. What a friggen solution. (doy! We has mass transits!)
Now onto "re configuring luxury boxes".....tell me how it's done, where on the skeletal structure the load can sustain the weight elsewhere without new reinforced mounting needing to be done, what's gonna happen to the seats, where what goes, tell us, Bob. All with no digging or high cost renovating of the brand new building not meant for hockey. (Oh, wait, it wasn't, was and now is, kinda)
Can we just stick to Queens and Nassau? Wang will NOT make money in Brooklyn but can in Nassau and Queens. Just bury this turd.
Last edited by OlTimeHockey: 02-17-2012 at 09:51 AM.
Wang rakes in all the revenues in NVMC at this time. However, that arrangement will run out in 2015 where Al D'Amato will likely try to do get SMG involved once again or his other buttkisser company (perhaps those ABLI developers) to run it which would likely bleed bunch of cash from the Isles. WHY didn't Nassau County legislature change the old arrangement where SMG got EVERYTHING in non-Isles events plus concessions at every event? Why were the Republicans upset when Suozzi decided his parting shot was to rip apart the old SMG deal that gave the Republicans kick backs? One reason why the publicly funded new Coliseum was given the green light last year was because Mangano's pimps (Mondello and Mangano) felt they can get kick backs.
What's the guarantee the Isles will rent from the Wilpons? Given NYC's history of floating bonds for stadiums, I think the Isles have a much better chance of getting a publicly funded stadium unlike Nassau. In Brooklyn, a temporary arrangement is more than likely better than what the Isles will get in Nassau past 2015.
Seriously? As time goes on, Nassau will know Wang isn't bluffing and concede to protect their filthy ass*s from the angry residents.
SMG is dead. Al D'Amato is the boogeyman. The current deal is where you negotiate from, not under a child's bed where things are scary.
SMG went not because of the Democrats but the LHP was up and SMG was an obstacle to the County pigs. Remember? They agreed to a deal where they would manage the property. I think al along they could have been bought out, though. What was their price for Gutkowski? $20M? $25M? He refused to pay.
dig deeper.....c'mon, you can pull something juicy outta your ***. They said time and again they weren't building it for hockey. No intention of hockey. Oops...it's built and maybe we can have hockey. We're playing hockey there. Ah well, coulda designed it better.
now once again, can we just move some seats around?
Yeah, just move some seats around. Maybe we'll have 12,000 good ones. And partial revenue so we will never spend above the cap floor. What a friggen solution. (doy! We has mass transits!)
Now onto "re configuring luxury boxes".....tell me how it's done, where on the skeletal structure the load can sustain the weight elsewhere without new reinforced mounting needing to be done, what's gonna happen to the seats, where what goes, tell us, Bob. All with no digging or high cost renovating of the brand new building not meant for hockey. (Oh, wait, it wasn't, was and now is, kinda)
Can we just stick to Queens and Nassau? Wang will NOT make money in Brooklyn but can in Nassau and Queens. Just bury this turd.
More absolutes. Amazing. Wang cannot make money. The building cannot work on and on
Remember this absolute you touted for months on end?...... The cost of a renovation would be far less then a new arena in Nassau....
At Tuesday's meeting both Nassau and the Islanders revealed that the cost of a refurb would be equal to the cost of a new building.
They did not pull this out of their hats, as much as you might wish, but they got this figure from Bowne who did the study on the arena referendum.
Did they not add luxury boxes to your beloved NVMC years after it was built?
Did they not add seating to the NVMC years after it was built?
Please stop going on and on about how Brooklyn cannot possibly work. Its one possibility and if at the end of the day that's where the Islanders need to go to survive then I am sure that it will be a hell of a lot better (once inside the Arena) then the NVMC.
More absolutes. Amazing. Wang cannot make money. The building cannot work on and on
Remember this absolute you touted for months on end?...... The cost of a renovation would be far less then a new arena in Nassau....
Yeah, it would.
Quote:
Wrong again Bullwinkle
At Tuesday's meeting both Nassau and the Islanders revealed that the cost of a refurb would be equal to the cost of a new building.
They did not pull this out of their hats, as much as you might wish, but they got this figure from Bowne who did the study on the arena referendum.
Cite the plans. What are they doing? Is it a gigantic refurb along the lines of the LHP debacle refurb where there are rinks added, a new shell, etc?
So YOU are saying you trust Nassau and the Isles with their financial opinions, the two entities who have done SWIMMINGLY well with money these past two decades?
Ayup. OK, Gus. Meanwhile, I illustrated time and again it can be done cheap, point out Tampa's lavish CHEAP remodel and you're siding with Nassau County's government. OK. So....you want to take a train to games. Got it.
Quote:
Neither you or I know what can and cannot be done at Barclays, but this idea, or should I say absolute, you are touting that nothing can be done is just down right dumb.
I told you the NEW CONSTRUCTION would have to be modified to allow a wider arena to house an NHL rink as there is no room for a full seating on one end. It's blatantly obvious. What, shrink the seats, each one, so people get knees in their heads all game? No, you have to remove seats and thus you lose seats OR you tear down an existing wall and expand.
Quote:
Did they not add luxury boxes to your beloved NVMC years after it was built?
Did they not add seating to the NVMC years after it was built?
Did they not have ROOM TO DO SO?
Quote:
Please stop going on and on about how Brooklyn cannot possibly work. Its one possibility and if at the end of the day that's where the Islanders need to go to survive then I am sure that it will be a hell of a lot better (once inside the Arena) then the NVMC.
Ok respond with some more hammer jockey gospel.
It's a possibility. The least desirable LOCAL one bu it's insurance. Nothing more.
Now tell me the revenues Wang gets and how he'll make more money in New Brooklyn than old broken NVMC. HIS revenue cut, not Ratner's.
But what sort of terms might Ratner be willing to offer for a team to eat up 41 nights a year, especially when it kills off any competition that doesn't already exist in the area? He makes money either way and perhaps he's willing to allow Wang some nice concessions to make it a reality. Didn't Botta say the Nets were lobbying extremely hard for the Islanders to come? I can see any number of incentives being on the table.
This.
Ratner getting NYI kills any competition from a LI arena for concerts etc as there would be no LI arena.
Seriously? As time goes on, Nassau will know Wang isn't bluffing and concede to protect their filthy ass*s from the angry residents.
SMG is dead. Al D'Amato is the boogeyman. The current deal is where you negotiate from, not under a child's bed where things are scary.
SMG went not because of the Democrats but the LHP was up and SMG was an obstacle to the County pigs. Remember? They agreed to a deal where they would manage the property. I think al along they could have been bought out, though. What was their price for Gutkowski? $20M? $25M? He refused to pay.
Where were those angry residents during the referendum? To me Mangano has NOT moved an inch since it failed. The Isles have been talking with him, but each want DIFFERENT things. UNLESS TOH budges their zoning, the Isles are GONE.
How do we know an SMG type deal will not come back? IF ABLI renovates the Coliseum with the Islanders as the anchor tenant, it will be pre December 2009 all over again. The fact that the Legislature laughed at Picker suggests they do NOT care about the Islanders.
Where were those angry residents during the referendum? To me Mangano has NOT moved an inch since it failed. The Isles have been talking with him, but each want DIFFERENT things. UNLESS TOH budges their zoning, the Isles are GONE.
How do we know an SMG type deal will not come back? IF ABLI renovates the Coliseum with the Islanders as the anchor tenant, it will be pre December 2009 all over again. The fact that the Legislature laughed at Picker suggests they do NOT care about the Islanders.
Lemme ask you this:
Were the taxpayers furious about paying more taxes?
Does the County know this?
Will they do anything to infuriate the taxpayers and help more people decide to leave Nassau?
Is it purely Nassau or does Wang have blame in this as well?
What about ABLI's first proposal? Wang gets a new building and they pay for it (dispute the numbers, by all means, but if it gets done who cares?).
Is there any movement in Queens? Should there be?
If Nassau got bad press over SMG already and Wang is coming up for renewal, WHY, LOGICALLY SPEAKING, WOULD YOU OFFER A RENEWAL WITH SMG ON THE TABLE? WHAT BENEFIT WOULD ANY POLITICIAN GAIN FROM DOING SOMETHING SO STUPID WHEN SMG RAN THE BUILDING INTO THE GROUND AND EVERYONE KNOWS HOW AWFUL THEY WERE?
ToH zoning isn't a factor, BTW. Wang's LHP is long gone. The LHP is dead. Wang does not have the funds unless he attracts a new partner. Correct?
So Nassau and Wang have to BOTH compromise and strike an 11th hour deal. We're barely at that point. I think things get more desperate in time. The Brooklyn exhibition will work 100X more than the VERY failed KC exhibition game, don't you think?
I just heard on the Dan Patrick show that the city of Seattle drafted a proposal to build a new arena to lure both an NBA and NHL team to the city.
Good bye Sacramento Kings and The Islanders might follow in the future.
The Coyotes will likely go to Seattle. My instructor at BCIT allegedly has connections and he told the class on February 7 they will come to Seattle. Then the arena news broke yesterday.
