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Old
02-15-2012, 12:03 AM
  #26
Superstar
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There are some positives next year, like it's the last year of Connolly's contract.

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02-15-2012, 12:06 AM
  #27
Giuseppe Sallo
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Originally Posted by TrueBlue86 View Post
hope they bring in an AA type GM
No doubt. Look what AA has done in terms of drafting prospects, he's building a "team". This is what we need. You need someone that has a sensible mind and does his job the way it's suppose to be done. I feel like burkie has too much pressure on him. Do your job! When it comes to FA... or via trade, he just doesn't have balls to do something big.


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02-15-2012, 12:14 AM
  #28
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This is roughly our 2012-13 lineup as of now:

Lupul - Bozak - Kessel
Kulemin - _____ - MacArthur
Lombardi - Connolly - Armstrong
____ - Steckel - Brown

Phaneuf - Gunnarsson
Gardiner - Schenn
Liles - Komisarek

Reimer
______



Bozak has played well, but he's not a #1. Lombo and Connolly have to go. The D is very shaky as is the goaltending situation. I don't think this team will or should tank next season. Burke needs to upgrade and fill some blanks and fire Ron Wilson. Easier said than done I know...

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02-15-2012, 12:15 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Giuseppe Sallo View Post
No doubt. Look what AA has done in terms of drafting prospects, he's building a "team". This is what we need. You need someone that has a sensible mind and does his job the way it's suppose to be done, I feel like burkie has too much pressure on him. Do your job! When it comes to FA... or via trade, he just doesn't have balls to do something big.
lol or it can be argued that he has too much balls

i think when he first came in he should of chilled and scaled back expectations a bit

play the young guys and get good picks in 09, 2010 and maybe 2011
use those to pick franchise guys at key positions- like C and goalie etc

then use his trade magic to upgrade around those guys and bring in role players etc

i think toronto fans are educated and everyone would go with the plan

he just wanted to be a hero right away and wanted to do the impossible

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02-15-2012, 12:18 AM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Winreims View Post
Lupul - Bozak - Kessel
Kulemin - _____ - MacArthur
Lombardi - Connolly - Armstrong
____ - Steckel - Brown

Phaneuf - Gunnarsson
Gardiner - Schenn
Liles - Komisarek

Reimer
Lupul- Nash- Kessel = LEGIT threat.

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02-15-2012, 12:19 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Giuseppe Sallo View Post
Lupul- Nash- Kessel = LEGIT threat.
lol nash is not a C buddy

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02-15-2012, 12:21 AM
  #32
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lol nash is not a C buddy
I know, but there's no way he plays RW on this team... I'd like him to play centre.

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02-15-2012, 12:21 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Giuseppe Sallo View Post
No doubt. Look what AA has done in terms of drafting prospects, he's building a "team". This is what we need. You need someone that has a sensible mind and does his job the way it's suppose to be done. I feel like burkie has too much pressure on him. Do your job! When it comes to FA... or via trade, he just doesn't have balls to do something big.
Burke isn't a classic builder. He's put too much of his ego into the damn thing so he can't make sensible moves or be flexible with his decisions without looking like a huge hypocrite or paint himself into a corner.

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02-15-2012, 12:28 AM
  #34
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Burke isn't a classic builder. He's put too much of his ego into the damn thing so he can't make sensible moves or be flexible with his decisions without looking like a huge hypocrite or paint himself into a corner.
Or, common sense would tell you that the cash cow that is MLSE, may not want to lose on purpose and run the risk of lost revenues and overall profit. Many here are too young to remember the empty seats of the Gardens many years ago. Why would a GM go to such great lengths to engage season ticket holders, and talk about putting an entertaining product on the ice with the desire to win, if there was never a worry of fan alienation?

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02-15-2012, 12:28 AM
  #35
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Burke isn't a classic builder. He's put too much of his ego into the damn thing so he can't make sensible moves or be flexible with his decisions without looking like a huge hypocrite or paint himself into a corner.
Ya the Leafs would have been much better served bringing in a "builder" then someone like Burke whos more of a finishing touchs type of GM. Sure hes made some nice trades and built up the farm a little more but still not like the Leafs have some loaded system with blue chippers left, right and center. Burke is a quality GM I just think that he wasnt a great fit for us and where we were at when he was hired. Would have been better to bring in someone that would have been 100% towards drafting, developing and someone who would hoard draft picks.

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02-15-2012, 12:36 AM
  #36
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Ya the Leafs would have been much better served bringing in a "builder" then someone like Burke whos more of a finishing touchs type of GM. Sure hes made some nice trades and built up the farm a little more but still not like the Leafs have some loaded system with blue chippers left, right and center. Burke is a quality GM I just think that he wasnt a great fit for us and where we were at when he was hired. Would have been better to bring in someone that would have been 100% towards drafting, developing and someone who would hoard draft picks.
I knew you didn't follow the Leafs; must be the constant jumping on and off the wagon, hard to keep track. The Leafs previous GM was one of those, and pleaded his case to the board of that very same thing, but was shot down. All he did was draft players that are on the Leafs today, and in the minors, while still expecting to be in a playoff hunt season after season. Others such as Rask, Stralman, Stalberg and others playing elsewhere. Leafs haven`t had this many prospects in a very long time, but you probably didn`t know that.

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02-15-2012, 12:40 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by New Liskeard View Post
Or, common sense would tell you that the cash cow that is MLSE, may not want to lose on purpose and run the risk of lost revenues and overall profit. Many here are too young to remember the empty seats of the Gardens many years ago. Why would a GM go to such great lengths to engage season ticket holders, and talk about putting an entertaining product on the ice with the desire to win, if there was never a worry of fan alienation?
lol are you joking, we`ve been losing for 6, now 7 years and have very little to show for it !!!

you think fans would alienate the team if we drafted seguin in 2010 and then maybe RNH or another top stud in 2011

toronto fans are among the most knowledgeable, you don`t think they`d be able to see the light

mediocrity like this is what is going to lead to alienation, if anything does

you think our fans and season ticket holders are so retarded that after beating the blue jackets on a tue night they go happy cause the team MAY finish 9th if everything goes well
common...

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02-15-2012, 12:41 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by New Liskeard View Post
Or, common sense would tell you that the cash cow that is MLSE, may not want to lose on purpose and run the risk of lost revenues and overall profit. Many here are too young to remember the empty seats of the Gardens many years ago. Why would a GM go to such great lengths to engage season ticket holders, and talk about putting an entertaining product on the ice with the desire to win, if there was never a worry of fan alienation?
Someone should have told them they'd never see playoff revenue again without tanking it into the ground . The days of buying your way into the playoffs are gone. Can spend to the cap and miss the playoffs.

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02-15-2012, 12:42 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by New Liskeard View Post
I knew you didn't follow the Leafs; must be the constant jumping on and off the wagon, hard to keep track. The Leafs previous GM was one of those, and pleaded his case to the board of that very same thing, but was shot down. All he did was draft players that are on the Leafs today, and in the minors, while still expecting to be in a playoff hunt season after season. Others such as Rask, Stralman, Stalberg and others playing elsewhere. Leafs haven`t had this many prospects in a very long time, but you probably didn`t know that.
Oh ya, is that the same GM that traded away Rask for Raycroft?
Is that the same one who traded a first round pick for Toskala?

They bought his plan early on then aborted very quickly. Its said to think we have management that wont even allow us to do this thing the right way. I was actually never "on" the bandwagon. I have been against almost all this franchises moves for about the past 6-7 years.

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02-15-2012, 12:47 AM
  #40
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Someone should have told them they'd never see playoff revenue again without tanking it into the ground . The days of buying your way into the playoffs are gone. Can spend to the cap and miss the playoffs.
lol yea

no playoff revenue for 7 years- the joke is on them

imagine sucking for 3 years and drafting studs to make us a perennial playoff team for a decade wow

how much extra money does mlse get- MILLIONS for each game

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02-15-2012, 12:49 AM
  #41
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lol are you joking, we`ve been losing for 6, now 7 years and have very little to show for it !!!

you think fans would alienate the team if we drafted seguin in 2010 and then maybe RNH or another top stud in 2011toronto fans are among the most knowledgeable, you don`t think they`d be able to see the light

mediocrity like this is what is going to lead to alienation, if anything does

you think our fans and season ticket holders are so retarded that after beating the blue jackets on a tue night they go happy cause the team MAY finish 9th if everything goes well
common...
Here's a thought for you. Why don't you approach the MLSE board of directors, or in this case the new owners, and show them that the millions and millions of dollars that are generated yearly by this conglomerate will not be at risk if the Leafs were to put an inferior product on the ice with the hopes of getting high picks, and in turn possibly better players. Let me know how that meeting goes, and be sure to wear your best suit. I can tell you that meeting already took place, with less than favorable results according to what you think makes sense.

You mention Leaf fans being the most knowledgable in sports; I can tell you the nonsense that gets littered on this board on a daily basis contradicts your statement completely.

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02-15-2012, 12:51 AM
  #42
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lol yea

no playoff revenue for 7 years- the joke is on them

imagine sucking for 3 years and drafting studs to make us a perennial playoff team for a decade wow

how much extra money does mlse get- MILLIONS for each game
Leaf fans go crazy over guys like Schenn and Kadri. Imagine if we actually drafted a kid like Stamkos, Tavares or Nugent Hopkins?

The server on this board would go down daily.

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02-15-2012, 12:53 AM
  #43
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assuming the GM after Burke is smart? and won't just waste the next years trading all the good prospects and **** for old useless veterans

a circle of durp is not good

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02-15-2012, 12:54 AM
  #44
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Oh ya, is that the same GM that traded away Rask for Raycroft?
Is that the same one who traded a first round pick for Toskala?

They bought his plan early on then aborted very quickly. Its said to think we have management that wont even allow us to do this thing the right way. I was actually never "on" the bandwagon. I have been against almost all this franchises moves for about the past 6-7 years.
If you read the post, and followed the Leafs you would know why those moves were made. By the way, it wasn't JFJ's plan, it was his mandate to make the playoffs. So you've been against almost all the moves MLSE has made, hence the reason you don't contribute anything to the board but simply chirping? Makes all the sense in the world, carry on.

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02-15-2012, 01:02 AM
  #45
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Originally Posted by New Liskeard View Post
Here's a thought for you. Why don't you approach the MLSE board of directors, or in this case the new owners, and show them that the millions and millions of dollars that are generated yearly by this conglomerate will not be at risk if the Leafs were to put an inferior product on the ice with the hopes of getting high picks, and in turn possibly better players. Let me know how that meeting goes, and be sure to wear your best suit. I can tell you that meeting already took place, with less than favorable results according to what you think makes sense.

You mention Leaf fans being the most knowledgable in sports; I can tell you the nonsense that gets littered on this board on a daily basis contradicts your statement completely.
oh please, what do you think the jays are doing this year. AA is trying to build a team his way, from the ground up, despite the frustration coming from many many fans. the team can easily sugar coat things and bring in an irrelevant free agent or two to get some a boost in fan support, but they are not doing it.

i think you are missing how dire the situation really is in toronto. if florida makes it this year, we might be the only team not to make the dance since the lockout- we`ll be the laughing stock of the league, with very little to show for it.

if the fans are not giving up now, what makes you think they`d give up if we bottom out and get a superstar. those `meetings`you`re referencing is probably what took place around 07, after we`ve missed a couple of times. obviously the owners though they will are smarter than the entire nhl.

then burke came along with his plan to `retool on the fly`and look at what that`s getting us.
you think they`ll just hire another burke, who will trade our picks
don`t you think mlse wants to make the playoffs and get millions in revenue
mlse is now learning the HARD way that a proper rebuild may be inevitable

it`s not about `putting an inferior product,`it`s more about letting the kids play, letting the team grow, being patient etc...
we tanked in 2010 unintentionally lol, and did the fans go away.. nopeeee


as for the most knowledgeable i`m talking about the people owning the season tickets. many have owned them for years and years, for generations in their families and won`t just drop them like that... especially if we have a future star to show for it

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02-15-2012, 01:04 AM
  #46
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If you read the post, and followed the Leafs you would know why those moves were made. By the way, it wasn't JFJ's plan, it was his mandate to make the playoffs. So you've been against almost all the moves MLSE has made, hence the reason you don't contribute anything to the board but simply chirping? Makes all the sense in the world, carry on.
You originally said we had a GM like that in JFJ (In the sense of a classic builder) but now tell me he was never given a chance to implement his system. So basically it comes down to us having upper management that really has no patience whatsoever besides getting to the playoffs ASAP.

I like to watch the game in a non bias manor. See I watch Phaneuf and can see hes not very good defensively. You obviously watch the games with your Toronto Maple Leaf goggles and thats why you flipped on me the other night when I said Phaneuf is a mess in his own end. Tonight was a perfect example of the struggles he routinely has and more and more people are taking notice. I guess to you anyone that criticize's the GM or a player on the team isnt a fan and just some bandwagoner. I'd actually consider myself a hockey fan first and foremost. I can watch any game, be it a bantam game to Phoenix vs Nashville game. I dont even have a favorite team but would like to see Toronto do well seeing I live in this city and I mostly just post on the Jays forums.

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02-15-2012, 01:11 AM
  #47
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oh please, what do you think the jays are doing this year. AA is trying to build a team his way, from the ground up, despite the frustration coming from many many fans. the team can easily sugar coat things and bring in an irrelevant free agent or two to get some a boost in fan support, but they are not doing it.

i think you are missing how dire the situation really is in toronto. if florida makes it this year, we might be the only team not to make the dance since the lockout- we`ll be the laughing stock of the league, with very little to show for it.

if the fans are not giving up now, what makes you think they`d give up if we bottom out and get a superstar. those `meetings`you`re referencing is probably what took place around 07, after we`ve missed a couple of times. obviously the owners though they will are smarter than the entire nhl.

then burke came along with his plan to `retool on the fly`and look at what that`s getting us.
you think they`ll just hire another burke, who will trade our picks
don`t you think mlse wants to make the playoffs and get millions in revenue
mlse is now learning the HARD way that a proper rebuild may be inevitable

it`s not about `putting an inferior product,`it`s more about letting the kids play, letting the team grow, being patient etc...
we tanked in 2010 unintentionally lol, and did the fans go away.. nopeeee


as for the most knowledgeable i`m talking about the people owning the season tickets. many have owned them for years and years, for generations in their families and won`t just drop them like that... especially if we have a future star to show for it
Why you would even compare the Jays to the Leafs is totaly ridiculous. Rogers has a buget, MLSE does not. In case you want verification, get information on the cost and employment put forth in scouting, senior management etc with MLSE, and compare that to the rest of the NHL. Not even close.

Laughing stock? I have never heard of any fan worried about being a laughing stock if they don't make the playoffs; I wonder if Burke and company lay awake at night in fear of being laughed at? Sounds very juvenile and immature.

There is more money, and profit at stake with MLSE than either you and I can comprehend. Playing the kids, and not intentially losing, does not guarantee a top draft pick, so not sure what youre point here is. You seem to be more concerned with being a laughing stock, than seeing the big picture here.

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02-15-2012, 01:18 AM
  #48
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You originally said we had a GM like that in JFJ (In the sense of a classic builder) but now tell me he was never given a chance to implement his system. So basically it comes down to us having upper management that really has no patience whatsoever besides getting to the playoffs ASAP.

I like to watch the game in a non bias manor. See I watch Phaneuf and can see hes not very good defensively. You obviously watch the games with your Toronto Maple Leaf goggles and thats why you flipped on me the other night when I said Phaneuf is a mess in his own end. Tonight was a perfect example of the struggles he routinely has and more and more people are taking notice. I guess to you anyone that criticize's the GM or a player on the team isnt a fan and just some bandwagoner. I'd actually consider myself a hockey fan first and foremost. I can watch any game, be it a bantam game to Phoenix vs Nashville game. I dont even have a favorite team but would like to see Toronto do well seeing I live in this city and I mostly just post on the Jays forums.
For someone who watches games in a "non bias manor" all your posts are negative and filled with complaints. That's pretty neat. You went on to say Phaneuf has not improved since his days in Calgary, and were proven wrong. Not only did you back track and do the dance, you admited you were wrong as well. He has improved since his Calgary days. Non bias eh? Again, MLSE is about growth and profits, that is crystal clear, and anyone in business or investements or sits on a board, will tell you the importance of growth, and profit margins. Spin that anyway you want, but the Leafs have gotten younger, have improved, and have more promising prospects than they have had in a very long time. But someone with a non bias approach would see that.

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02-15-2012, 01:27 AM
  #49
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Originally Posted by New Liskeard View Post
For someone who watches games in a "non bias manor" all your posts are negative and filled with complaints. That's pretty neat. You went on to say Phaneuf has not improved since his days in Calgary, and were proven wrong. Not only did you back track and do the dance, you admited you were wrong as well. He has improved since his Calgary days. Non bias eh? Again, MLSE is about growth and profits, that is crystal clear, and anyone in business or investements or sits on a board, will tell you the importance of growth, and profit margins. Spin that anyway you want, but the Leafs have gotten younger, have improved, and have more promising prospects than they have had in a very long time. But someone with a non bias approach would see that.
Naw that actually never happened. I said hes better defensively now then he was in Calgary. This is exactly what was said -

"I'd say hes certainly better then he was in Calgary (he was a total gongshow) but I still dont think hes good defensively"

Then you came along and said his game is totally different now then it was with the Flames and I proceeded to say its not all that much different. I said he plays a very similar style that he did with Calgary. What I backtracked on was saying that I was innitially a little harsh in saying that he has no idea how to play defence. Not all my posts are negative, the other day I admitted I liked certain things that Burke has done like his trade with Anaheim and I like some of the drafting but said that to me its like going from brutal to average. Sure its a improvement but its really not something to go bonkers over because its not that much of a improvement.

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02-15-2012, 01:38 AM
  #50
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Originally Posted by New Liskeard View Post
For someone who watches games in a "non bias manor" all your posts are negative and filled with complaints. That's pretty neat.
Maybe because certain fans have this ideology that they want to see the Leafs win a Cup, and that they are taking steps in the wrong way to do such a thing. Commentating on the Leafs, while being unbiased tends to yield an unfavorable situation.

Quote:
You went on to say Phaneuf has not improved since his days in Calgary, and were proven wrong. Not only did you back track and do the dance, you admited you were wrong as well. He has improved since his Calgary days. Non bias eh?
Phaneuf has improved a little bit.

When he was in the number one role in Calgary, he led the entire league (1st) by allowing 122 goals against over the season in which he was counted on to shutdown the opponent's offence. He was promptly replaced with Giordano and Bouwmeester, and subsequently traded off the team.

He is now in the same role in Toronto and is sitting in 10th in the league amongst defencemen, 12th across all NHL players with 66 goals surrendered already. He's on pace for about94 which is an improvement since his days in Calgary, even with a better goalie there.

Here's what some Calgary fans had to say:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurse View Post
Its like Phaneuf isn't even playing, he is invisible again.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stewie Griffin View Post
I don't get the booing for Phaneuf.

We want him on the ice as much as possible, amirite?

Edit: Unless it's Leaf fans booing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurse View Post
Phanuff attempting to singlehandedly win the game, now i remember why we traded him
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Originally Posted by Xelstyle View Post
So now we know what things:

1), Phaneuf hasn't changed that much since we traded him.
...

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