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Buy Low for Carter or Break Bank for Nash?

View Poll Results: Buy Low for Carter or Break Bank for Nash?
Buy Low for Carter 90 53.25%
Break Bank for Nash 43 25.44%
Neither 36 21.30%
Voters: 169. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
02-15-2012, 10:44 AM
  #26
MoreMogilny
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kadri43 View Post
So your going to argue Carter's totals without even considering MANY extraneous variables. Playing on philadelphia and Columbus is like playing on two different planets. Philadelphia has always been surrounded by top talent. Nash has continuously been given nothing to play with on terrible teams. Saying this player is better than this player based purely on statistical observation while ignoring other factors is bad logic
Insinuating that I said one player was better than the other tells me that you need to reread my post.

Also, seeing as you want other factors to be realized, how about the fact that Carter has had very little time to adjust to his new surroundings, has been injured this season, and is probably pretty damn peeved that he signed a really long contract only to be shipped out a short time later to a much worse team.

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Old
02-15-2012, 10:48 AM
  #27
Auzzie19
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Originally Posted by Reim Job View Post
I'm so sick of people saying this about Kessel. He is fine defensively. Pavel Datsyuk is arguably the best defensive forward in the league and you never see him lay out a huge hit. Don't want him on your team?

Ideally, I'd be happy with either of Nash and Carter. If we don't get Nash it will be because he is the one ultimately deciding where he goes so I won't be too disappointed if we miss out. I think Carter could be had for a reasonable cost so I'm probably learning toward Carter.
Lets see Kessel do this and we can stop complaining about Kessel's effort level.


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Old
02-15-2012, 10:48 AM
  #28
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Neither...only because the price will be 1st 2012+Kadri/Schenn+

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02-15-2012, 10:49 AM
  #29
Heis3nberg
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reim Job View Post
I'm so sick of people saying this about Kessel. He is fine defensively. Pavel Datsyuk is arguably the best defensive forward in the league and you never see him lay out a huge hit.
It's not about laying a hit. It's about TAKING a hit to make a play as the other poster was referring to. Kessel is constantly hemmed on the side boards because Dmen step up on him and know he will shy away from the physical contact. The rangers executed this PERFECTLY the last time they played. Torts was a big part of getting his team to play hard on Kessel, it was their game plan and it worked flawlessly.

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Old
02-15-2012, 10:54 AM
  #30
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carter will not solve anything and will be a waste. He is not a bonafide number 1 C nor will he help kessel. Hes a locker room cancer and i wouldnt even give grabo alone for him. Nash on the other hand, it all depends on the asking price. Burke stockpiling talent has given us enough expendable players that the deal may not hurt us too much.

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Old
02-15-2012, 10:56 AM
  #31
Mansfield
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heis3nberg View Post
It's not about laying a hit. It's about TAKING a hit to make a play as the other poster was referring to. Kessel is constantly hemmed on the side boards because Dmen step up on him and know he will shy away from the physical contact. The rangers executed this PERFECTLY the last time they played. Torts was a big part of getting his team to play hard on Kessel, it was their game plan and it worked flawlessly.
Pretty sure every coach does that, not just Tortorella. The rangers are just good at playing that style so it was noticeable.

Torts is a good coach, but don't **** your pants on him

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Old
02-15-2012, 10:56 AM
  #32
mashedpotato
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Is this poll an indication an actual belief that either of the two players are possible candidates for trades to the Leafs or is it a symptom of some HF form of cabin fever where the users go through a spell of insanity and treat it with remote hypothetical's?

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Old
02-15-2012, 11:02 AM
  #33
HenryH
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reim Job View Post
I'm so sick of people saying this about Kessel. He is fine defensively. Pavel Datsyuk is arguably the best defensive forward in the league and you never see him lay out a huge hit. Don't want him on your team?

Ideally, I'd be happy with either of Nash and Carter. If we don't get Nash it will be because he is the one ultimately deciding where he goes so I won't be too disappointed if we miss out. I think Carter could be had for a reasonable cost so I'm probably learning toward Carter.
Trust me, Datsyuk knows how to lay out really good hard hits. If someone nails him or even gets dirty with him, a few moments later he will nail you right back. But that isn't Kessel's game and maybe the coaches should change things a bit somehow to get him to protect the puck better and get better clearing your own zone.

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Old
02-15-2012, 11:05 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Auzzie19 View Post
Lets see Kessel do this and we can stop complaining about Kessel's effort level.

"shea weber went flying"

lol

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Old
02-15-2012, 11:09 AM
  #35
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Interesting Nash's contract is backloaded whereas Carter's is frontloaded.

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Old
02-15-2012, 11:14 AM
  #36
Kearsley21
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Nash is an Elite talent.. the kid played top line on team canada... not to many players can say they did that. he is 6 foot 4 218 pounds play makes for himself put him on a line with Kulimin and Connoly nxt yr it will be sick
i say no brainer get er done Burke

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Old
02-15-2012, 11:16 AM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MoreMogilny View Post
I much prefer the idea of buying low on Carter.

I think it's debatable who the better player is between him and Nash. Carter has the edge in career highs (46 goals in comparison to Nash's 40, and 84 points in comparison to Nash's 79), while Nash has him beat in PPG (.81 for Nash, .73 for Carter). Nash is bigger and stronger, but Carter is a year younger and better defensively (from what I've seen).

Both great players, but I like the fact that Carter is a center (a position of greater need), and is a lot easier on the cap. He also has proven chemistry with Lupul, and could give us a dynamite option on the top line, instead of having to keep resorting to Bozak (who I like, but he's just not good enough to be a top line center on a competing team). Also, and probably most importantly, it would cost less to pick up Carter. I don't want to sell the farm to get Nash.
I'm with you on this one. Carter fills a big hole we have. #1 C.

Nash would help, but then we will log jam our wings, maybe even throw lupul/kessel off while still having a big hole down the middle.

It's not even close for me. If it came down to the two, I know which one I'd pick 10/10 times.

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Old
02-15-2012, 11:17 AM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HenryH View Post
Trust me, Datsyuk knows how to lay out really good hard hits. If someone nails him or even gets dirty with him, a few moments later he will nail you right back. But that isn't Kessel's game and maybe the coaches should change things a bit somehow to get him to protect the puck better and get better clearing your own zone.
I see these kind of things all the time, someone links a video of datsyuk getting hit and him hitting them back. A post is then made with so called "their own" logic and facts on a post that was already made. Why do people do this?

Etc.. Post 1- kessel is a good player because of X.

A few posts later- well kessel is a good player because X.. "with their own added extra facts"

Boggles my mind :s

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Old
02-15-2012, 11:20 AM
  #39
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I'd prefer Carter myself, Nash is going to cost more, and Carter in our lineup gives us so much more options up front.

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Old
02-15-2012, 11:24 AM
  #40
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I'm not really high on either of these guys, but since the poll is here, I say buy low and get Carter. Gets us a big scoring center that we need and his cap hit gives us flexibility if he doesn't work out.

Still of the mind to go for Getzlaf though, but this isn't the thread for that.

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Old
02-15-2012, 11:32 AM
  #41
Felstead
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kearsley21 View Post
Nash is an Elite talent.. the kid played top line on team canada... not to many players can say they did that. he is 6 foot 4 218 pounds play makes for himself put him on a line with Kulimin and Connoly nxt yr it will be sick
i say no brainer get er done Burke
I think the team Canada thing goes un noticed for a lot of people and I'm so happy you brought that up.

Everyone that plays for Canada is a good player, but it takes a Great player to be name to the first line. Putting up 1 70 point season and being named to the first line? That shows that their is a lot of talent there that hasn't been fully unleashed yet with his current NHL club, Columbus.

Nash will excell with player around him, he was never given that in Columbus. Not once. A change of scenery is needed for this man, especially to any of the markets in his NTC.

Would love for him to be a leaf, always thought he would look good in blue and white. Do with have the assets to give up? Maybe. Are we willing to give them up? Probably not.

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Old
02-15-2012, 11:36 AM
  #42
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You missed a very "con" in the Rick Nash scenario. Two, really:

1) You are moving Lupul - a top 5, top 10 guy in the league at this moment - to the third line. Why you would put him there instead of Kulemin or MacArthur is beyond me, but even if you move Lupul to the "second" line . . . you are moving your second best player from the top line. Why?

2) What makes you think Nash will have any chemistry with Kessel? Any evidence that Kessel will play at the same level of production or better without a linemate (Lupul) that he has excellent chemistry with?

And IF you try to correct these two "cons" by putting Nash on the second line - which is where I, and most coaches I would think, would put him if acquired - is it worth it to get a second liner for that kind of cash, having to probably give up the farm for?

And your comparison between Jeff Carter / Nik Kulemin is flawed, since you forgot to put in games played.

Jeff Carter (playing with mostly no-name scrubs for the first time, and after a significant injury):
36 gp, 12 goals, 9 assists, 21 points
NOTE: this is on the worst team in the league

Nikolai Kulemin (playing with linemates he has good chemistry with after a career year):
57 gp, 5 goals, 18 assists, 23 points
NOTE: this on a current playoff team, playing with 2 linemates significantly more productive than he is

Carter - playing on the worst team in the league, with new scrub players and in a bad situation - in an 82 game season would have 27 goals, 21 assists, 49 points at his current pace. Kulemin, in an 82 game season, is on pace for . . . 7 goals, 26 assists, 33 points. Yeah, that's a fantastic comparison!

It shows us that Carter, in his worst year on the worst team in the league, is going at a similar pace as Kulemin in his career year (last year). Thanks!

* * * *

I pick Carter, hands down the better fit IMHO.

Big body; great on pk; great sniper; can be put on the 2nd line for a greater chance of success; will be picked up for great value (low price). Would have to assume one of Lombo or Connolly would depart to Columbus, and other than that, prospects/picks. My guess is they get Connolly.

Let's put it this way: did we not WANT a big, young center?
Why yes . . . yes, I think we did!

Grabo shifts to wing:
Lupul - Bozak - Kessel
MacArthur - Carter - Grabovski
Crabb - Connolly/Lombardi - Kulemin

or, my "roll the three lines" idea:
Lupul - Bozak - Kessel
MacA - Grabo - Kulemin
Lombardi - Carter - Crabb
(2nd and 3rd lines get approx. equal ice time in this scenario)

Or, the displaced Bozak configuration:
Lupul - Carter - Kessel
MacA - Grabo - Kulemin
Lombardi - Bozak - Crabb

Many different ways to play it based on what Wilson wants, chemistry, etc.

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Old
02-15-2012, 11:37 AM
  #43
Heis3nberg
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mansfield View Post
Pretty sure every coach does that, not just Tortorella. The rangers are just good at playing that style so it was noticeable.

Torts is a good coach, but don't **** your pants on him
Where did a **** my pants over him? I just said he had a lot to do with that, every coach can say it but when you see a team execute it as well as the Rangers did you can't help but think the coach was a big reason for it. I do agree that the Rangers are built really well to play that style.

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Old
02-15-2012, 11:40 AM
  #44
SeenSchenn2
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Carter being a shoot-first player isn't an issue considering Kessel has above-average playmaking skills and usually looks to pass now.

Carter. #1C is more of a need. The caphit is lower and yeah it's longer term, but takes him to 37. He'll stiill be productive.

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Old
02-15-2012, 11:41 AM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Penalty Kill Icing View Post
Unfortunately, this is not basketball that Kessel alone would change outcome of game.

Connolly, Komisarek, Beauchemin, Lebda, Armstrong are all part of those great FA signings. Just scrubs, scrubs and scrubs!

Got lucky on MacArthur but his value was too low when he signed. Don't forget that. Name 1 good FA signed by Burke as Leafs GM.
That's why Burke/most GM's use several different methods to build his teams.

How many good impact players hit UFA each season?


Last edited by Barilko14: 02-15-2012 at 11:46 AM.
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Old
02-15-2012, 11:43 AM
  #46
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is'nt carter a 1C???,nash is highly overrated on this site.much rather have carter

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Old
02-15-2012, 11:43 AM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heis3nberg View Post
Where did a **** my pants over him? I just said he had a lot to do with that, every coach can say it but when you see a team execute it as well as the Rangers did you can't help but think the coach was a big reason for it. I do agree that the Rangers are built really well to play that style.
Haha, he is referring to the HBO 24/7 first episode where Torts said.. "Kessel is a great player, but don't **** your pants on him."

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Old
02-15-2012, 11:43 AM
  #48
Kearsley21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Felstead View Post
I think the team Canada thing goes un noticed for a lot of people and I'm so happy you brought that up.

Everyone that plays for Canada is a good player, but it takes a Great player to be name to the first line. Putting up 1 70 point season and being named to the first line? That shows that their is a lot of talent there that hasn't been fully unleashed yet with his current NHL club, Columbus.

Nash will excell with player around him, he was never given that in Columbus. Not once. A change of scenery is needed for this man, especially to any of the markets in his NTC.

Would love for him to be a leaf, always thought he would look good in blue and white. Do with have the assets to give up? Maybe. Are we willing to give them up? Probably not.

exactly he had 5 pts in 7 games playng against the best teams in the world.... and just remember Carter wasnt good enough to make that team.. hes only 1 yr older then Ryan Getzlaf i mean. we need size and grit he gives us that... and hes got great hands just go to youtube and type in rick nash top 10

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Old
02-15-2012, 11:44 AM
  #49
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I'm with Slozo. My fear is that Nash's contributions would be cancelled out by the lesser production of either or both Kessel and Lupul...as one of those guys will get bumped off the first line.

I'd rather buy low on Carter...

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02-15-2012, 11:52 AM
  #50
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Originally Posted by DaleSmedsmosStache View Post
Neither...only because the price will be 1st 2012+Kadri/Schenn+
Depending on the plus, i'd do Kadri,1st and a small plus for either.

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