By Wanger and Snow being so cheap we are stuck with Rolston at 5 million.
Longer term contracts are the risk that every team takes. I don't think PAP was asking for Lieno dollars
Not sure what Rolston has to do with this considering he's a one year stop gap and nothing more. We won't be seeing him back here for even 1 million next season.
And yes, giving long term contracts to relatively unproven players are certainly a gamble. But, there was nothing in PAP's play last year to indicate that he deserved anything more than another year to prove he can stay in the bigs. I can't fault Snow for not handing him a long term deal after one decent season.
Methinks you should come by more often and post your thoughts.
Very good post and an astute observation. The pattern is definitely there the more I think about it.
Appreciate the feedback!
With PA, cost/benefit considerations over time come into play. Over the short term, what he provides (secondary ES scoring, PP, 4x4, SO) are worth paying a premium for, given the lack of other options. But over the longer term, we have to replace some of smaller, finesse top 9 Fs with bigger, more aggressive Fs (hopefully some combo of Nino, Ullstrom, Petrov, Kabanov, Lee, Nelson, Sundstrom). Being locked in to PA with a long term and high $ reduces our flexibility to do so, especially if it becomes a hard contract to move.
It will be a shame if PA doesn't return. We won't be able to replace him, unless we overpay for a FA or give up too much for a top 6 forward in a trade. I'd be satisfied to trade him as long as the return is good and we could fill another void by acquiring a proven under 30 top 4 D.
If PA Parenteau hasn't played on a line with Tavares since December and is playing on the 2nd line with Martin why is he doubling up Martin in TOI?
Is Parenteau still on the #1 PP unit and does he PK?
Parenteau is on the #1 PP unit with Tavares and Moulson up front. He takes his regular shift on the 2nd line with Neilsen and Grabner. He doesn't play on the PK.
Matt Martin is currently on the 3rd line with Bailey and Rolston.
Parenteau is on the #1 PP unit with Tavares and Moulson up front. He takes his regular shift on the 2nd line with Neilsen and Grabner. He doesn't play on the PK.
Matt Martin is currently on the 3rd line with Bailey and Rolston.
Hope that helps.
Not really, he still averages more EV TOI than both his line mates.
Well, he was on the 1st line up until late December. That would explain the higher EV TOI.
Being on the 1st line in December is the reason he gets more EV TOI than his line mates???
Feb 14th:
F. Nielsen 13:43
M. Grabner 14:09
P. Parenteau 16:07
Feb 12th:
F. Nielsen 15:24
M. Grabner 15:55
P. Parenteau 16:21
Not a very big difference this game.
Feb 11th:
F. Nielsen 15:36
M. Grabner 15:53
P. Parenteau 17:04
Feb 9th:
F. Nielsen 14:18
M. Grabner 14:11
P. Parenteau 19:44 (played more than Tavares)
See what I mean, some games he's only a minute or so more than his line mates and other games it looks like he being double shifted. But he always has more EV TOI.
Jason York just spoke about PAP on Ottawa sports radio here and said that when the Isles were in Ottawa he talked to PAP, and PAP said that he felt this was his one chance to cash in and make all those years in the minors worthwhile.
In light of the recent Dreger report, I would guess that either the Isles lack of a significant offer (according to PAP's camp) is what prompted the report.
Reading into statements PAP made to French media in recent weeks where he was asking for a long contract sounds to me like Snow likely offered a one-year deal.
PAP felt slighted by this, and this is where we stand.
My guess is Snow sees more value in holding PAP (like Nabokov) for the playoff run, and will trade neither. Snow's promise of playoff contention is far more important than adding another draft pick or less than sure-fire prospect to what is already a strong New York Islanders prospect pool...
Can't see either player moving unless we drop five straight, unless Snow initiates a larger type deal, perhaps packaging both or with draft picks for a significant upgrade like a top six forward or top four d-man.
But Snow's not dumping either player for picks. Not his M.O., and not the message he wants to send to his players or the rest of the NHL.
Bottom line: Can Isles replace PA's production in the offseason at a same or similar price? I'm saying nope. Reason, more on chemistry, than anything.
PA followed the Moulson model. Prove you are a NHLer. Sign one year deal to prove your production is worth further investment, get multi-year deal.
Snow/Wang probably want to pay on 3yrs vs. 4/5. PA probably wants 4/5 years. It's fair on his part. Fair on Isles part to have concern locking themselves into the deal. See Grabner...so far.
Being on the 1st line in December is the reason he gets more EV TOI than his line mates???
Feb 14th:
F. Nielsen 13:43
M. Grabner 14:09
P. Parenteau 16:07
Feb 12th:
F. Nielsen 15:24
M. Grabner 15:55
P. Parenteau 16:21
Not a very big difference this game.
Feb 11th:
F. Nielsen 15:36
M. Grabner 15:53
P. Parenteau 17:04
Feb 9th:
F. Nielsen 14:18
M. Grabner 14:11
P. Parenteau 19:44 (played more than Tavares)
See what I mean, some games he's only a minute or so more than his line mates and other games it looks like he being double shifted. But he always has more EV TOI.
1) Nielsen and Grabner are on the PK and occassionally PA skates a short shift at even strength right after that on the 3rd or 4th lines.
2) PA stays on the ice for a long time instead of taking a normal shift like his linemates. It happens on all teams with certain players.
Bottom line: Can Isles replace PA's production in the offseason at a same or similar price? I'm saying nope. Reason, more on chemistry, than anything.
Rather than replacing his production, another way to look at it is:
Do the Islanders lack an element (or elements) to make them a playoff team that they can afford to lose PA's production, in favour of adding a different TYPE of player or different position?
So, are the Islanders better off by trading Parenteau and Nabokov for a defenseman and a big, tough winger?
Would the Islanders be better off trading Nabokov the Leafs for Colby Armstrong and Pareteau to Detroit for Brendan Smith (samples to illustrate my point).
Adding two players in different roles may help the team overall. Especially when you have a lot of forward prospects that can replace Parenteau's ROLE (not focused solely on his production).
I believe's Parenteau's PRODUCTION is a function of his role, not vice versa. He wouldn't be a 20g 70pt player on Columbus and he likely wouldn't get top six minutes on most top teams.
But the Isles could play almost anyone with Tavares and they could get points. But Armstrong might add an element the Isles don't have.
Isles lack size, speed and help on defense - and Parenteau's a pending UFA that fills none of that. You can easily make the case that now is the perfect time to "sell high" on PAP, as for Nabokov.
A team like the Isles needs to be able to buy low and sell high, especially when you know you have to overpay UFAs to get them to play for them, and often, more money doesn't get them either.
I'm leaning towards trading BOTH Nabokov and Parenteau at the deadline. I'm not usually in that camp at all. My head typically says keep them for a run, winning games is more important than accumulating assets and "maybes" - and I still feel that way, in general.
But these two guys, for some reason, the career season Parenteau's having and the run that Nabokov is on, knowing that they won't likely be here next year, it might be a unique opportunity to get some nice assets to help out next year.
And maybe we don't lose much by riding Montoya down the stretch. And maybe the Isles can also add a piece at the deadline, a player with some term.
Imagine adding a Jeff Carter to replace Parenteau (taking on his long contract which isn't likely to be moved at the deadline).
Deal Nabokov for a #1 pick
Deal Parenteau for a #1 pick
Trade both picks to CBJ for Carter, throw in a prospect.
OKAY, this is sounding too much like an EA fantasy transaction....but some of you MAY get my point.
I believe's Parenteau's PRODUCTION is a function of his role, not vice versa. He wouldn't be a 20g 70pt player on Columbus and he likely wouldn't get top six minutes on most top teams.
But the Isles could play almost anyone with Tavares and they could get points. But Armstrong might add an element the Isles don't have.
Don't get ahead of yourself on this one. It's easy to say that, but might be functionally more difficult b/c JT makes it easier on the others (the anti-yashin).
However, I get your comment on Production aspect. Just too easy to assume Nino gets 40pts next year, JB 60, and so one.
Don't get ahead of yourself on this one. It's easy to say that, but might be functionally more difficult b/c JT makes it easier on the others (the anti-yashin).
However, I get your comment on Production aspect. Just too easy to assume Nino gets 40pts next year, JB 60, and so one.
Tonight we will see a hitch-blues team that plays suffocating defense, doesn't have anyone who can produce points like parenteau, but they win games.
Some 20-30 pt players ' contribute' to wins and losses more than some 60 pt players.
In this case, I don't see Parenteau as a guy who is core to this team, despite the points, and most importantly, at the pricetag he would earn in the ufa market.
This might be a player you can replace with a different type of player.
T be clear, if try and sign him, at a price, but wouldn't hesitate to deal him if that price was too high. I believe he is replaceable in terms of value to the team, not simply from an offensive production aspect.
But Parenteau is FAR from a problem on this team, he's been the 2nd best player on the team all year (Hamonic, Martin, Moulson, AMac at times - the only ones that come close).
The lack of production from Grabner, Okposo and FOUR of the bottoms six have killed this team's progress this year.
Based on play alone, you'd have to keep Parenteau over guys like Okposo, Grabner, Nielsen - but that's not going to happen.
Hopefully Garth learned from the Blake Comeau situation. Comeau absolutely had to go because his attitude was hurting other players like Bailey and Okposo but he was a 24 goal scorer last year who wasn't replaced properly. People in this forum minimized his contribution and now we have virtually no bottom 6 scoring outside of Martin and Bailey. Comeau's replacements- Nino 1 goal, Rolston 4 goals, Rakh 5 games -zero points and Tim Wallace no goals. Throw in Pandolfo's 1 goal and none from Reasoner is there any doubt that if we had Comeau's production from last year that we would be about 3 to 5 points closer to a playoff spot.
While JT and the rest of our first line have decided to dummy up since the All Star break, PA, Neilsen, Martin and Bailey have kept us close. Right now the logical solution is to move PA back to John's line to help John out and that shows his value to the team. Saying that his production is a strictly a result of Tavares is similar to saying that James Neal is only putting up points because of Malkin.
We probably won't be able to meet PAP's price but who's going to replace the production- Nino who is beginning to remind me of Sean Bergenheim? Rakh-he appears to have legitimate hockey skill and sense but until he scores his first point I'll have some doubts? Realistically no free agent is coming to a club that doesn't have a permanent home after 2015. PA is in the top 25 in scoring and top 5 or 6 in assists. I'm sorry to say to people that think that PA is part of the reason that we're not making the playoffs that they're wrong, he's a legitimate first line player.
He will be this year's Ville Leino. This is my gut feeling.
I haven't seen anything in Parenteau that would warrant us keeping him around for years to come. If he doesnt want to sign a friendly deal, he is easily replaceable. I'd be willing to bet that he doesnt have future success with many other NHL teams. I don't believe he will be a consistently good player and, while he has improved, his flaws definitely outweigh his benefits. I've been saying it since October, but he is the type of player that is easily replaceable and upgradeable. As Redbull mentioned, I don't see him as being a part of this core.
PA Parenteau is not a legitimate 1st line player...especially after accumulating the majority of his points by being a beneficiary of John Tavares and Matt Moulson. We get a good deal for him, Snow has to take it. If they love him so much, sign him back. This team is not making the playoffs. They need to come to this realization. They aren't built for it, they won't be built for it. Period.
I'm tired of keeping the crap just because it's what stuck to the walls.
I'd be very careful offering PAP more than a two year deal and I think that's the way Snow's thinking as well. He's having a great season but nobody knows if he'll ever be able to repeat it and I feel there's a good chance he may not. Would we like to be stuck with a 4 or 5 year deal that makes him virtually untradeable then?
The Islanders have got four of their top six guys locked up long term (not counting Nielsen - he's really a third liner) and signing a lengthy deal with PA pretty much soldifies our top six for years to come, when we all know that needs serious upgrading.
If the Isles are out of come the 27th trade him but keep him if they're still in it and can't a good defenseman in return!
Bottom line: Can Isles replace PA's production in the offseason at a same or similar price? I'm saying nope. Reason, more on chemistry, than anything.
PA followed the Moulson model. Prove you are a NHLer. Sign one year deal to prove your production is worth further investment, get multi-year deal.
Snow/Wang probably want to pay on 3yrs vs. 4/5. PA probably wants 4/5 years. It's fair on his part. Fair on Isles part to have concern locking themselves into the deal. See Grabner...so far.
Same could have been sad fro Jason blake. Is PA worth a 4/5 risk. I do not think i would want to go over that 3 year mark. I would go over a 3 year mark. However it would be a Lower rate.
Rather than replacing his production, another way to look at it is:
Do the Islanders lack an element (or elements) to make them a playoff team that they can afford to lose PA's production, in favour of adding a different TYPE of player or different position?
So, are the Islanders better off by trading Parenteau and Nabokov for a defenseman and a big, tough winger?
Would the Islanders be better off trading Nabokov the Leafs for Colby Armstrong and Pareteau to Detroit for Brendan Smith (samples to illustrate my point).
Adding two players in different roles may help the team overall. Especially when you have a lot of forward prospects that can replace Parenteau's ROLE (not focused solely on his production).
I believe's Parenteau's PRODUCTION is a function of his role, not vice versa. He wouldn't be a 20g 70pt player on Columbus and he likely wouldn't get top six minutes on most top teams.
But the Isles could play almost anyone with Tavares and they could get points. But Armstrong might add an element the Isles don't have.
Isles lack size, speed and help on defense - and Parenteau's a pending UFA that fills none of that. You can easily make the case that now is the perfect time to "sell high" on PAP, as for Nabokov.
A team like the Isles needs to be able to buy low and sell high, especially when you know you have to overpay UFAs to get them to play for them, and often, more money doesn't get them either.
I'm leaning towards trading BOTH Nabokov and Parenteau at the deadline. I'm not usually in that camp at all. My head typically says keep them for a run, winning games is more important than accumulating assets and "maybes" - and I still feel that way, in general.
But these two guys, for some reason, the career season Parenteau's having and the run that Nabokov is on, knowing that they won't likely be here next year, it might be a unique opportunity to get some nice assets to help out next year.
And maybe we don't lose much by riding Montoya down the stretch. And maybe the Isles can also add a piece at the deadline, a player with some term.
Imagine adding a Jeff Carter to replace Parenteau (taking on his long contract which isn't likely to be moved at the deadline).
Deal Nabokov for a #1 pick
Deal Parenteau for a #1 pick
Trade both picks to CBJ for Carter, throw in a prospect.
OKAY, this is sounding too much like an EA fantasy transaction....but some of you MAY get my point.
Great post. I agree with you on PA. This Islander team needs to add size, and get a more physical type of player into the top 6. Like you said PA brings none of this. If we lock PA up, then the top 6 are all locked up here long term. Its been said countless times the Isles need size and grit on the first 2 lines, locking PA up means we are stuck with a small,no hitting, non gritty players on the top 6 for years to come. This has to improve or we will be physically dominated if and when we ever make it to the playoffs. We already have to many small,non physical players.
One year ago...Heck - Even even earlier this year many of the people on this board were bashing PA - Begging for him to simply be cut. Honestly Dale Hunter circa 1993 took less abuse here.
Now all of a sudden many of these same posters are crying that we might lose PA to free agency.
Two things Islander fans can never be accused of not having enough of:
Flailing emotion
Uninformed deduction
Great post. I also have mentioned this but some I guess forget what they were saying last year. HE WAS THE ISLANDERS WHIPPING BOY LAST YEAR! He was one of if not the most hated Islander on this site. Posters were calling him"PA penis pump" or "Pap Smear" and others I cant remember. Its so funny that after 1 year Islander fans want to give this guy 4-5 years!
No way do I give PA 4-5 years. As other posters including myself have stated the Islanders lack size,grit up front. We have enough small , non hitting players locked up. Pa is having a good year but he is not a "core" guy and not a guy I wanna give close to 4 mill at 4-5 years bc of 1 good year.
...but, he is effective. Those stats don't lie. He has not really missed a beat since being taken off of JT's line. I actually think he trending upward. I think he is showing us that he is a quality top-6 forward. He has flaws, no doubt about it. But, he seems to get it.
I didnt say he isnt producing. I am saying that he Is slowing down his lines transition as opposed to okposo. He is not a well rounded player in my mind (but im not very hockey versed).
Being on the 1st line in December is the reason he gets more EV TOI than his line mates???
Feb 14th:
F. Nielsen 13:43
M. Grabner 14:09
P. Parenteau 16:07
Feb 12th:
F. Nielsen 15:24
M. Grabner 15:55
P. Parenteau 16:21
Not a very big difference this game.
Feb 11th:
F. Nielsen 15:36
M. Grabner 15:53
P. Parenteau 17:04
Feb 9th:
F. Nielsen 14:18
M. Grabner 14:11
P. Parenteau 19:44 (played more than Tavares)
See what I mean, some games he's only a minute or so more than his line mates and other games it looks like he being double shifted. But he always has more EV TOI.
Pa always stays out to challenge while his line changes. Grabs always heads off first and comes on last. Nielsen normally comes on first. Pa often neglects to come off at the first opportunity...i guess thats partially why he has more ev toi than nielsen.
