as a GM, would you give up anything of importance to get him for your cup run?
keep in mind that hes a free agent after this season.....
The current cba expires in Sept.
There will be teams leery of taking on big contracts ,unsure of what changes the new cba will bring.
Parenteau being a ufa in several months won't turn off those teams.
Moore really isn't that bad of a player if you watch him play. He's for 30 points a year, and is a solid player. And yes I do think that PAP is worth more than him-but the question is how much? And if the Sharks did indeed overpay-than quite frankly you'd need someone to overpay for PAP.
(this next bit isn't addressed to you specifically):
Posters on this board for the Isles are very emotional. They go through changes in opinions on players like constantly. First PAP is garbage in his first year (which he did have a good year-all things considered), and now they think he's worth more than 2nd? Really?
PAP's a nice player-but he doesn't put any team over the top for the cup, nor does he make the difference between playoffs and 9th place on any team-and that's the problem with giving him so much value. He's a UFA-and is going to test the market (according to himself).
You don't give up much for a player who:
-isn't a difference maker
-is going to become an UFA
-wont sign before testing the market
-has only proven himself to be a legit NHLer for 2 seasons.
-will see his icetime decrease on a new team, and thus production (in the form of sheer stats)
I'm not saying he wont bring back anything-but he will not bring back a 1st rounder, or a 2nd rounder+another pick. He's simply not worth it, and not good enough.
The trade deadline is the worst time to be a GM that is looking to buy. If some GM is desperate enough, they can be capable of some WTF moves. Parenteau may have his warts, but all you need is for just one GM willing to overpay.
Moore really isn't that bad of a player if you watch him play. He's for 30 points a year, and is a solid player. And yes I do think that PAP is worth more than him-but the question is how much? And if the Sharks did indeed overpay-than quite frankly you'd need someone to overpay for PAP.
(this next bit isn't addressed to you specifically):
Posters on this board for the Isles are very emotional. They go through changes in opinions on players like constantly. First PAP is garbage in his first year (which he did have a good year-all things considered), and now they think he's worth more than 2nd? Really?
PAP's a nice player-but he doesn't put any team over the top for the cup, nor does he make the difference between playoffs and 9th place on any team-and that's the problem with giving him so much value. He's a UFA-and is going to test the market (according to himself).
You don't give up much for a player who:
-isn't a difference maker
-is going to become an UFA
-wont sign before testing the market
-has only proven himself to be a legit NHLer for 2 seasons.
-will see his icetime decrease on a new team, and thus production (in the form of sheer stats)
I'm not saying he wont bring back anything-but he will not bring back a 1st rounder, or a 2nd rounder+another pick. He's simply not worth it, and not good enough.
So Chris Campoli (bottom pairing dman with some offensive skill) while requesting a trade (which gives the other team strength in negotiation) was worth a 1st rounder but Parenteau (top 5 in the NHL in assists) who is very happy (which doesn't help the other team) fetching the same is impossible? How's that?
You need to remember those kinds of deals do happen!
So Chris Campoli (bottom pairing dman with some offensive skill) while requesting a trade (which gives the other team strength in negotiation) was worth a 1st rounder but Parenteau (top 5 in the NHL in assists) who is very happy (which doesn't help the other team) fetching the same is impossible? How's that?
You need to remember those kinds of deals do happen!
And look at the recent returns for Moore and Gill.
And look at the lack of deadline forwards.
It is possible PAP is the best available player, and double dirt cheap.
Moore really isn't that bad of a player if you watch him play. He's for 30 points a year, and is a solid player. And yes I do think that PAP is worth more than him-but the question is how much? And if the Sharks did indeed overpay-than quite frankly you'd need someone to overpay for PAP.
(this next bit isn't addressed to you specifically):
Posters on this board for the Isles are very emotional. They go through changes in opinions on players like constantly. First PAP is garbage in his first year (which he did have a good year-all things considered), and now they think he's worth more than 2nd? Really?
PAP's a nice player-but he doesn't put any team over the top for the cup, nor does he make the difference between playoffs and 9th place on any team-and that's the problem with giving him so much value. He's a UFA-and is going to test the market (according to himself).
You don't give up much for a player who:
1-isn't a difference maker
2-is going to become an UFA
3-wont sign before testing the market
4-has only proven himself to be a legit NHLer for 2 seasons.
5-will see his icetime decrease on a new team, and thus production (in the form of sheer stats)
I'm not saying he wont bring back anything-but he will not bring back a 1st rounder, or a 2nd rounder+another pick. He's simply not worth it, and not good enough.
Moore, any way you cut it, is a bottom 6 forward who is a good penalty killer. Parenteau, any way you cut it, is a top 6 forward who is a great powerplay player.
1.Having 54 points in 58 games and being top 5 in assists doesn't make you a difference maker?
2.Most rentals are going to be UFA's, doesn't side step the point that he could greatly help out a team that needs him.
3.He said that but that doesn't mean he won't, especially with a new team.
4.So? I don't think teams care about that. I don't think L.A who are very low on offensive production care about that and care more about the 54 points he has put up this year.
5.How can you even say his icetime will diminish? There is nothing to back that statement up at all.
Folks, Parenteau has real good value on the current market. Don't doubt yourself into thinking otherwise.
I can't even imagine how good he'll be if he gets sent to a team like Pittsburgh, Chicago, Washington or Vancouver.
Other GMs will be thinking similarly...
Are you talking for trade or as a UFA? Because I have a hard time believing that PA gets more than a 2nd round pick in a trade.
As a UFA he'll probably get overpaid because NHL free agency has become silly season. Just look at deals like Ville Leino and Joel Ward from last year among others and some team will give PAP 3-4 million/year.
We all know that Snow's top offer has to be around 2 million/year and if PAP doesn't come around and accept it by next weekend, Snow will probably have a deal ready to ship him out the door. I'm just not expecting much back.
Are you talking for trade or as a UFA? Because I have a hard time believing that PA gets more than a 2nd round pick in a trade.
As a UFA he'll probably get overpaid because NHL free agency has become silly season. Just look at deals like Ville Leino and Joel Ward from last year among others and some team will give PAP 3-4 million/year.
We all know that Snow's top offer has to be around 2 million/year and if PAP doesn't come around and accept it by next weekend, Snow will probably have a deal ready to ship him out the door. I'm just not expecting much back.
Are you kidding? The bidding starts at least at 3 million. i would have no problem with a 3-4 year deal for 3.5 per or even 3.75 per.
Are you kidding? The bidding starts at least at 3 million. i would have no problem with a 3-4 year deal for 3.5 per or even 3.75 per.
I have to agree. I just don't know how our offense can handle another year of the girl scout parade. PAP's changed my opinion of him greatly, but the overall composure of the forwards is still bad simply because of all the cream puffs dominating the lines, which includes the checking unit, sad to say. Moulson, Okposo, Bailey, PAP, Nielsen, Grabner... You might as well hand them feather dusters and Gandhi's peace-out sari to play with. Something in that group needs to change, whether it is Bailey & Okposo spending the summer doing Charles Atlas, eating 5 lbs of raw red meat a day, and working out with UFC fighters or whatever. I am utterly sick of seeing teams like Philly treat them like pimp-slapped ho's.
Whether Paps is traded or he stays, it's 'show me the money' time for him any way you slice it. If he keeps his pace and puts up 75 points this season, someone is going to give him a Leino type contract... it only takes one willing GM.
So is Snow going to give him the 5 years at $4.5M AAV that he and Walsh are probably seeking because that's what it's likely going to take. Who would have thought a 9th round pick who toiled away in the minors could realistically get a contract like that? What do you think the '18 year old Pap' in him is telling him? Walsh is dreaming unicorns and rainbows with the commission he's going to get for PA Parenteau. PA Parenteau!
Even if you're on the fence of trading him or keeping him - you can't ignore the contract that'll likely get it done. I am inclined to wish him goodbye and good luck at that price.
So Chris Campoli (bottom pairing dman with some offensive skill) while requesting a trade (which gives the other team strength in negotiation) was worth a 1st rounder but Parenteau (top 5 in the NHL in assists) who is very happy (which doesn't help the other team) fetching the same is impossible? How's that?
You need to remember those kinds of deals do happen!
-We also gave them Comrie in the deal, and probably the largest piece
-Campoli was 24 at the time and a RFA (not a UFA)
-We all know that a top-4 D is much harder to come across than a top-6 forward, and they obviously gambled that Campoli would become a #4
You need to remember that the deal wasn't Campoli for a 1st straight up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin27NYI
Moore, any way you cut it, is a bottom 6 forward who is a good penalty killer. Parenteau, any way you cut it, is a top 6 forward who is a great powerplay player.
1.Having 54 points in 58 games and being top 5 in assists doesn't make you a difference maker?
2.Most rentals are going to be UFA's, doesn't side step the point that he could greatly help out a team that needs him.
3.He said that but that doesn't mean he won't, especially with a new team.
4.So? I don't think teams care about that. I don't think L.A who are very low on offensive production care about that and care more about the 54 points he has put up this year.
5.How can you even say his icetime will diminish? There is nothing to back that statement up at all.
PAP obviously isn't making a big difference with the Isles. They're still a lotto-team (at the moment). Not to mention if you look at his stats playing with JT vs playing without JT...he's not a difference maker. JT is-no question, but PAP? No. He's not. The Isles will not get anything more than a 2nd for him (unless they send something else in return).
-We also gave them Comrie in the deal, and probably the largest piece
-Campoli was 24 at the time and a RFA (not a UFA)
-We all know that a top-4 D is much harder to come across than a top-6 forward, and they obviously gambled that Campoli would become a #4
You need to remember that the deal wasn't Campoli for a 1st straight up.
You think Comrie was anything but a throw in? There was a throw in on both sides- that deal was a 1st for Campoli who they were sweet on for a long time. You're right they gambled that Campoli would become a #4 and the gamble was a first round pick.
PAP obviously isn't making a big difference with the Isles. They're still a lotto-team (at the moment). Not to mention if you look at his stats playing with JT vs playing without JT...he's not a difference maker. JT is-no question, but PAP? No. He's not. The Isles will not get anything more than a 2nd for him (unless they send something else in return).
More .
With your logic you can say Tavares obviously isn't making a big difference with the Isles either because of where they are in teh standings. And I guess Stamkos isn't worth anything either since they are in the same place as the Islanders.
You think Comrie was anything but a throw in? There was a throw in on both sides- that deal was a 1st for Campoli who they were sweet on for a long time. You're right they gambled that Campoli would become a #4 and the gamble was a first round pick.
Comrie wasn't a "throw in". He was still relatively young, and was good for 50 points a season. He actually was a good 2nd line center...unfortunately the Isles lacked so much depth he played 1st line minutes (and more importantly responsibilities) with the Isles. Now I don't think a 20 goal, 50 points center whose relatively young is a "throw in".
Seeing as you agree that they took a risk that Campoli would become a top-4 (and probably a #4), I think we can both agree that top-four defensemen are much harder to come across than top-6 forwards are. This naturally gives a top-4 D more value than a top-6 forward.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockify
More .
With your logic you can say Tavares obviously isn't making a big difference with the Isles either because of where they are in teh standings. And I guess Stamkos isn't worth anything either since they are in the same place as the Islanders.
I clearly said JT was a difference maker-go back and read. JT makes his linemates better, and quite frankly PAP isn't anywhere near as good as when he's not playing with JT. Coincidence? I think not.
I'm not a total downer PAP-I never joined the bandwaggon of the anti-PAP hate last year, or early this year (the Isles fanbase ALWAYS needs a scapegoat), but I'm also not jumping to the conclusion that after 1 year of putting up these kind of numbers, mainly when he's playing with JT, makes him very valuable. It doesn't. Does anybody really think that GMs are too dumb not to see what PAP's stats are with JT vs without him? It's easy to find-hell we can do it. No GM in the league isn't to do that.
Guerin was an UFA, still useful and was able to help a team reach the cup (and did). They only got a conditional 3rd-5th for him. And that was after obviously shopping him around, in order to create a bidding war. That was the best that they could get?
Last edited by ScaredStreit: 02-20-2012 at 12:15 PM.
PAP obviously isn't making a big difference with the Isles. They're still a lotto-team (at the moment). Not to mention if you look at his stats playing with JT vs playing without JT...he's not a difference maker. JT is-no question, but PAP? No. He's not. The Isles will not get anything more than a 2nd for him (unless they send something else in return).
That's on the rest of the team, not PAP. I could use the same argument for Tavares. "The Islanders are 25th in the league, obviously Tavares isn't much of a difference maker.." There isn't a direct relation.
Comrie wasn't a "throw in". He was still relatively young, and was good for 50 points a season. He actually was a good 2nd line center...unfortunately the Isles lacked so much depth he played 1st line minutes (and more importantly responsibilities) with the Isles. Now I don't think a 20 goal, 50 points center whose relatively young is a "throw in".
Seeing as you agree that they took a risk that Campoli would become a top-4 (and probably a #4), I think we can both agree that top-four defensemen are much harder to come across than top-6 forwards are. This naturally gives a top-4 D more value than a top-6 forward.
?
The Sens were desperate for a puck moving d-man.Campoli was not a quality,top 4 d-man.On a good team he was a good #5.
Comrie was underachieving bigtime and the isles FORCED the Sens,to take Comrie and his $4m per season salary. That trade took place a few weeks before the trade deadline and Comrie had 7 goals.I think he had about 13 assists.
Are you talking for trade or as a UFA? Because I have a hard time believing that PA gets more than a 2nd round pick in a trade.
Both. No reason to believe that a team looking for his skillset to complete a real viable 2nd scoring line or to be the left boards guy on the PP is not gonna be willing to give up something good (better than a 2nd rounder), despite his upcoming UFA situation.
On the open market, gotta think he's gonna get much closer to Ville Leino money (a very similar situation) than Moulson money.
Quote:
We all know that Snow's top offer has to be around 2 million/year and if PAP doesn't come around and accept it by next weekend, Snow will probably have a deal ready to ship him out the door. I'm just not expecting much back.
We'll have to see. Thus far, it's been a seller's market, but that's been the case almost solely for Dmen. Don't see many low budget forwards at almost a PPG clip available out there.
Last edited by Chapin Landvogt: 02-21-2012 at 05:17 AM.
The rumor is that the Isles won't be able to re-sign PAP for any kind of hometown discount. If that's true, then why not trade him? Here's a hypothetical (but somewhat realistic) scenario:
We trade PAP to a contender for a late 1st and 2nd.
PAP underachieves with his new team and becomes a free agent on July 1.
We end up re-signing him for whatever we're offering now.
I realize many of you guys will bring up the point that he'd likely be less inclined to come back if we traded him and that's a fair arguement. But, this could be a situation where PAP spends 25 games elsewhere and realizes how much he'd rather be playing with Moulson and JT on the island.
We have a trade topic thread and a thread discussing the PAP contract negotiations...
As for the topic, we've been discussing this scenario since the article on his not negotiating until after the season came out.
Your idea has been bandied about.
Realistically, it would of course have its incentives if we could get something real nice for PAP at the deadline and then see him resign in the summer, say two years at 7 million.
Realistically, even if he loves a lot of the things here, there are always the 'other' teams out there who manage to make offers like the one to Ville Leino last summer.
This team cannot and should not compete with those, as nice a player as PAP has become.
We have a trade topic thread and a thread discussing the PAP contract negotiations...
As for the topic, we've been discussing this scenario since the article on his not negotiating until after the season came out.
Your idea has been bandied about.
Realistically, it would of course have its incentives if we could get something real nice for PAP at the deadline and then see him resign in the summer, say two years at 7 million.
Realistically, even if he loves a lot of the things here, there are always the 'other' teams out there who manage to make offers like the one to Ville Leino last summer.
This team cannot and should not compete with those, as nice a player as PAP has become.
Paps and his agent are looking to cash in and I can't really see him NOT getting the Leino type contract that he wants. That most likely prices him out of LI IMO.
I've softened my stance that he MUST be dealt, but I don't want him walking away when the Isles could get a nice asset or two if he's traded. Things should definitely intensify over the next couple of days.
This statline still blows my mind. Squeezed right in-between Datsyuk and Big Joe Thornton for assist leaders.
1 Henrik Sedin VAN 51
2 Claude Giroux PHI 46
3 Erik Karlsson OTT 45
4 Pavel Datsyuk DET 43 5 PA Parenteau NYI 41
6 Joe Thornton SJS 40
7 Evgeni Malkin PIT 39
8 Jason Spezza OTT 38
This statline still blows my mind. Squeezed right in-between Datsyuk and Big Joe Thornton for assist leaders.
1 Henrik Sedin VAN 51
2 Claude Giroux PHI 46
3 Erik Karlsson OTT 45
4 Pavel Datsyuk DET 43 5 PA Parenteau NYI 42
6 Joe Thornton SJS 40
7 Evgeni Malkin PIT 39
8 Jason Spezza OTT 38
I'm on board with dealing PA. All signs point to him testing the market. We may lose a big assist guy but if that can be turned into defensive depth then I'm all for moving him. Either a developing kid or an extablished vet.
This team is too top heavy in scoring mainly cause there isn't enough blue line depth to work some decent breakout passes. Lines two through four struggle enough getting out of their zone.
Besides, I think this season is more of the typical UFA fluff from PA so he can get his paycheck on July 1st. This is probably the best year anyone gets out of him.
I'm on board with dealing PA. All signs point to him testing the market. We may lose a big assist guy but if that can be turned into defensive depth then I'm all for moving him. Either a developing kid or an extablished vet.
This team is too top heavy in scoring mainly cause there isn't enough blue line depth to work some decent breakout passes. Lines two through four struggle enough getting out of their zone.
Besides, I think this season is more of the typical UFA fluff from PA so he can get his paycheck on July 1st. This is probably the best year anyone gets out of him.
I really have no idea what the market for PA is right now. A lot of fans view him as nothing more than JT's tag along, but how do GMs view him? Is one willing to give up a significant asset for PA, who is having a career year? If we can't get more than a late 2nd, I would hold on to him and try to finish the season strong and push him to re-sign.
