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v18: Hornets win draft lottery, will pick 1st. Raptors will pick 8th.

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Old
05-03-2012, 11:46 AM
  #751
philb613
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wait and see where we end up after the lottery but our big board should be BPA so
Davis
MKG
Beal
Robinson
Drummond
Barnes
We have holes everywhere so any of the top 6 would be good

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05-03-2012, 11:52 AM
  #752
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Originally Posted by philb613 View Post
wait and see where we end up after the lottery but our big board should be BPA so
Davis
MKG
Beal
Robinson
Drummond
Barnes
We have holes everywhere so any of the top 6 would be good
unfortunately we can't move up to just any spot. We can go to the top 3 spots, stay at 8, or potentially move back to any of 9 through 11 if teams leapfrog us for those top 3 spots.

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05-03-2012, 06:53 PM
  #753
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Man, just caught the Court Cuts with Vince Carter highlights on the Score. Freaking awesome, and brings back some glorious memories. Oh, what could have been...

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05-03-2012, 07:45 PM
  #754
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I keep thinking what could have been with Tyson Chandler.

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05-03-2012, 08:06 PM
  #755
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I keep thinking what could have been with Tyson Chandler.
We wouldn't have gotten Valanciunas last year that's for sure.

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05-07-2012, 01:44 AM
  #756
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Charles Barkley at it again, saying something dumb. He called a fan an "idiot" & "Dressed like a F*G".

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05-07-2012, 12:56 PM
  #757
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David Aldridge wants the Raps to win the lottery

http://www.nba.com/2012/news/feature...s=iref:nbahpt1

Quote:
Toronto is like that ex-girlfriend you haven't seen in 15 years. You lost touch with her, and then you heard she got fat and you were secretly happy about it, but then you heard a year ago that she had a lousy boyfriend who treated her bad, and you felt sorry for her and hoped she was doing okay. (If you're a woman reading this, just substitute "boyfriend" for "girlfriend" where appropriate, "him" for "her" and "he" for "she.")
Quote:
Toronto has pieces, but it doesn't have that centerpiece around which you can build a real contender. Imagine a frontcourt of the 7-foot Bargnani, the 6-foot-11 Davis and 7-foot-2 center Video Jonas Valenciunas, whom the Raptors took in the first round last season and expect will come over to the NBA next season after spending the year playing in Europe. Imagine what Jose Calderon and DeRozan could do with Davis swatting shots and igniting the fast break.
Me too David..me too..

Note: I'm pretty sure Val is 6'11, not 7'2..

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05-07-2012, 03:02 PM
  #758
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Add MKG or Barnes or Davis AND Jonas V, than sign a FA like Nick Young, CJ Miles, Nicholas Batum and bam you got a playoff contender and a massive improvement from this season.

Get er done BC!

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05-07-2012, 03:14 PM
  #759
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Originally Posted by Spezza19 View Post
Add MKG or Barnes or Davis AND Jonas V, than sign a FA like Nick Young, CJ Miles, Nicholas Batum and bam you got a playoff contender and a massive improvement from this season.

Get er done BC!
None of MKG, Barnes or Davis will be available at 8. We're stuck with Lillard or Rivers or someone like that.

Like in 2009 when instead of getting to choose between Harden, Rubio or Curry we got left with Demar.

Nick Young is a inefficient chucker, and Batum apparently hates the Raptors and will never sign with them because of something that happened with his draft workout here.

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05-07-2012, 04:51 PM
  #760
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habsfan18 View Post
http://www.nba.com/2012/news/feature...s=iref:nbahpt1





Me too David..me too..

Note: I'm pretty sure Val is 6'11, not 7'2..
Val reportedly measured just under 7 feet last year at the European combine, without shoes.

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05-08-2012, 12:07 PM
  #761
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Man, I really want Nash. With Nash + Val + a couple of solid additions this is a playoff team in the East. Championship contender? That's tough because Nash really wants a ring.

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05-08-2012, 02:42 PM
  #762
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Sitting at 6 can move up to 3 or drop to 11

Is that correct?

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05-08-2012, 03:15 PM
  #763
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Originally Posted by FreeBird View Post
Is that correct?
No. Sitting at 8. Can move up to 1-3, or can be bumped back to 9-11 if teams behind us jump the line and get into the top 3.

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05-08-2012, 03:44 PM
  #764
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If everything stays the same, this is what I see:

1. Charlotte - Anthony Davis
2. Washington - Michael Kidd-Gilchrist
3. Cleveland - Andre Drummond
4. New Orleans - Thomas Robinson
5. Sacramento - Bradley Beal
6. Portland - Harrison Barnes
7. Golden State - Jared Sullinger (and then trade him?)

So that leaves us with a guy like Jeremy Lamb or Perry Jones III (unlikely IMO) and Damian Lillard, Austin Rivers, Kendall Marshall etc if we're looking to draft a PG..

It seriously sucks that we're likely picking out of the top 5. Damn you Casey.

I'm hoping we can swap picks with another team and move into the top 5. Not holding my breath though.

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05-08-2012, 04:29 PM
  #765
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habsfan18 View Post
If everything stays the same, this is what I see:

1. Charlotte - Anthony Davis
2. Washington - Michael Kidd-Gilchrist
3. Cleveland - Andre Drummond
4. New Orleans - Thomas Robinson
5. Sacramento - Bradley Beal
6. Portland - Harrison Barnes
7. Golden State - Jared Sullinger (and then trade him?)

So that leaves us with a guy like Jeremy Lamb or Perry Jones III (unlikely IMO) and Damian Lillard, Austin Rivers, Kendall Marshall etc if we're looking to draft a PG..

It seriously sucks that we're likely picking out of the top 5. Damn you Casey.

I'm hoping we can swap picks with another team and move into the top 5. Not holding my breath though.
No way GS drafts Sullinger ahead of a guy like Lamb. They need some help on the wing, and already have Bogut and Lee as their big men on big contracts.

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05-08-2012, 04:43 PM
  #766
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habsfan18 View Post
If everything stays the same, this is what I see:

1. Charlotte - Anthony Davis
2. Washington - Michael Kidd-Gilchrist
3. Cleveland - Andre Drummond
4. New Orleans - Thomas Robinson
5. Sacramento - Bradley Beal
6. Portland - Harrison Barnes
7. Golden State - Jared Sullinger (and then trade him?)

So that leaves us with a guy like Jeremy Lamb or Perry Jones III (unlikely IMO) and Damian Lillard, Austin Rivers, Kendall Marshall etc if we're looking to draft a PG..

It seriously sucks that we're likely picking out of the top 5. Damn you Casey.

I'm hoping we can swap picks with another team and move into the top 5. Not holding my breath though.
Dan Patrick loves Kendall Marshall, says hes a pass first PG and a NBA PG so I would definitely love if he was there at #8 and we took him.

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05-08-2012, 05:27 PM
  #767
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habsfan18 View Post
If everything stays the same, this is what I see:

1. Charlotte - Anthony Davis
2. Washington - Michael Kidd-Gilchrist
3. Cleveland - Andre Drummond
4. New Orleans - Thomas Robinson
5. Sacramento - Bradley Beal
6. Portland - Harrison Barnes
7. Golden State - Jared Sullinger (and then trade him?)

So that leaves us with a guy like Jeremy Lamb or Perry Jones III (unlikely IMO) and Damian Lillard, Austin Rivers, Kendall Marshall etc if we're looking to draft a PG..

It seriously sucks that we're likely picking out of the top 5. Damn you Casey.

I'm hoping we can swap picks with another team and move into the top 5. Not holding my breath though.
I think those are the top 5 guys though I'd switch the order a bit. Right now I have Beal as the frontrunner to go 2nd because MKG and Robinson are going to have their scoring games picked apart leading up to the draft, they're just way too reliant on the power and explosiveness advantage they have in the NCAA that won't be there in the NBA, offensively. It's possible they're only 12ppg guys with good D/rebounding, which is still kind of disappointing. Beal also rebounded better in college than any NBA 2 does so that advantage isn't really there for MKG/Robinson to make up for it. I say Davis, Beal, Drummond, MKG, Robinson as the general order. I think Robinson is 5th because he's a junior vs 3 other freshman in Beal/MKG/Drummond. NBA Draft tends to favor youth a ton.

IMO Portland takes Lamb over Barnes permitting they don't fall in love with a PG like Damian Lillard or Kendall Marshall. The problem with Barnes for POR is it duplicates Nic Batum at SF. I think Lamb is both as talented and a better fit. They can play Matthews, Lamb, Batum as a rotation a lot easier than Matthews, Batum, Barnes

GSW take Barnes if he falls to 7 no question. Their starting PG, SG, PF, and C spots long term are filled. I like them to trade 7 for Andre Iguodala if they don't get Barnes or Kidd-Gilchrist.

Prediction:

1. CHA - Davis
2. WAS - Beal
3. CLE - Drummond
4. NOH - MKG
5. SAC - Robinson
6. POR - Lamb
7. GSW - Barnes

I would bet on Sullinger for TOR in that situation. I think we pass on Jones III because of Dwane Casey's new team culture going against softies. Damian Lillard is a mistake for anyone picking top 10, he's the latest of many 6'2-6'3 SGs who have been labelled "Well... we can turn him into a PG", but it never works + the Big Sky conference is kind of a joke and it took him 4 years to dominate there so I wouldn't trust his stats. Dark horse is Arnett Moultrie who is athletic, skilled, and had a very producting scoring and rebounding season in college. A few years older but I think he's a starter in the NBA and I would personally rather have him than Thomas Robinson. Robinson is more jacked and a better rebounder but I'm much more sold on Moultrie's scoring standing out at the next level at a starter caliber thus that's what I'd go with. I think if Barnes and Lamb are gone the Raptors big board is a bit effed and it opens them up to look at a ton of prospects at 8. I would say it's plausible they take: Sullinger, Jones III, Lillard, Marshall, Moultrie, Leonard, Waiters, Henson but of that group Sullinger and Moultrie stand out IMO. Both players would be productive immediately as both scorers and rebounders while having starter+ upside. I don't think we draft based on need at all. If we take PF, get rid of both Davis and Amir and run a lineup next year of Bargnani/Gray starting and 2012 draft PF/Valanciunas as the 2 bigs off the bench. (Gray IMO will start over Valanciunas to start due to handling post matchups more + Casey having a system of meritocracy and accountability meaning players have to work for starting spots)


Last edited by MVP of West Hollywd: 05-08-2012 at 05:36 PM.
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05-08-2012, 05:58 PM
  #768
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Originally Posted by MrLegend28 View Post
Dan Patrick loves Kendall Marshall, says hes a pass first PG and a NBA PG so I would definitely love if he was there at #8 and we took him.
Kendall Marshall will almost certainly be there at 8 (Portland may pick him), but I would definitely take Lamb over Marshall.

I like Marshall, but Lamb has a lot of potential that I don't think the Raptors could pass up on if they were in a position to draft him.

On another note, I thought this was interesting:

Quote:
All indications in Phoenix are the Suns will make Steve Nash a limited offer and he’ll move on. It makes sense as the Suns will have $23 million in salary cap room and they’ve gone as far as they can go. The Suns were always a player destination, and this will test whether they still are under the frugal Robert Sarver management. Many believe Nash instead of chasing a title with a contender for a lesser salary will go back to Canada and the Raptors for a three-year deal and help bring their young players along.
http://www.nba.com/bulls/news/smith_120507.html

It's mostly speculation, but I thought it was worth some discussion.

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05-08-2012, 07:44 PM
  #769
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Originally Posted by 91Kadri91 View Post
Kendall Marshall will almost certainly be there at 8 (Portland may pick him), but I would definitely take Lamb over Marshall.

I like Marshall, but Lamb has a lot of potential that I don't think the Raptors could pass up on if they were in a position to draft him.

On another note, I thought this was interesting:



http://www.nba.com/bulls/news/smith_120507.html

It's mostly speculation, but I thought it was worth some discussion.
who knows. he just got named GM of Team Canada lol.

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05-09-2012, 04:19 PM
  #770
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austin rivers seems like he could be a nice choice for the raptors at 8th overall, sick handles ad shooting. Does he have an attitude problem? Is he really bad defensively?

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05-09-2012, 05:29 PM
  #771
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austin rivers seems like he could be a nice choice for the raptors at 8th overall, sick handles ad shooting. Does he have an attitude problem? Is he really bad defensively?
he's undersized for a SG and he lacks the skills to be a PG (and he has a rep for being selfish offensively)

This team needs a distributor at the point.

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05-09-2012, 08:29 PM
  #772
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he's undersized for a SG and he lacks the skills to be a PG (and he has a rep for being selfish offensively)

This team needs a distributor at the point.
Agreed.

He's also absolutely terrible defensively.

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05-09-2012, 09:39 PM
  #773
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Rivers would be a terrible selection.

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05-09-2012, 09:47 PM
  #774
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It's an unfortunate evolution of the NBA and by extension, top draft prospects, that everyone is so absorbed in "getting theirs" at every single position. I kinda hoped that maybe Steve Nash might start a new focus on playmaking PGs the way Magic Johnson/John Stockton did, but it's like anyone who grows up being little wants to play like Allen Iverson.

Look at the prospects at PG in this class who are in ESPN's top 60 players (ie the guys most likely to get drafted):

Kendall Marshall: distributor
Damian Lillard: scorer
Austin Rivers: scorer
Tony Wroten: scorer (has distributor skills, but is too selfish offensively to use them enough)
Marquis Teague: scorer
Tyshawn Taylor: scorer
Scott Machado: distributor
Tu Holloway: scorer

That's 8 guys, and only 2 of them can legitimately be called pass-first PGs. And Machado is a late 1st/early 2nd rounder at best and there are red flags about his conditioning and the fact that he plays for tiny Iona College from New York. The rest of them are, to varying degrees, shoot-first scoring PGs or so-called "combo guards" (another term I hate because "combo guard" is just code for "SG in a PG's body")

Of those 8, only Marshall and Machado posted PG-like assist #s. They were both close to 10 assists per game. The others? not one of them reached 5 assists per game. They were all in the mid 3s up to the high 4s. As a primary ball handler, you should be able to get 7-8 assists per game without trying if you play like an actual PG. It's the same principle as why we harp on Bargs for his rebounding.

I'll admit that Wroten is intriguing because he has size and shows the ability to be a distributor if someone can hammer it into his head that he'll have a longer career if he does so. I saw a report where some scouts call him Gary Payton 2.0, and that is exactly what I want. But others are concerned by his offensive tunnel-vision and his tendency to play recklessly and outside himself.

Marshall might be interesting, but it'd be hard to be a full-time starting PG in teh NBA if you have zero offensive game to keep defences honest (and aren't a good enough athlete to at least beat your man and fake drives to the hoop.)

The Raptors really need a young pass-first PG. But it looks like we're not getting one in the near future unless Colangelo has the fountain of youth and can revert Calderon to being a pre-injury 23 year old while retaining his current skill set. Or we need to pray that Myck Kabongo takes some steps forward before the 2013 draft and ends up in the Raptors pick range.

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05-09-2012, 10:43 PM
  #775
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Originally Posted by The Nemesis View Post
It's an unfortunate evolution of the NBA and by extension, top draft prospects, that everyone is so absorbed in "getting theirs" at every single position. I kinda hoped that maybe Steve Nash might start a new focus on playmaking PGs the way Magic Johnson/John Stockton did, but it's like anyone who grows up being little wants to play like Allen Iverson.

Look at the prospects at PG in this class who are in ESPN's top 60 players (ie the guys most likely to get drafted):

Kendall Marshall: distributor
Damian Lillard: scorer
Austin Rivers: scorer
Tony Wroten: scorer (has distributor skills, but is too selfish offensively to use them enough)
Marquis Teague: scorer
Tyshawn Taylor: scorer
Scott Machado: distributor
Tu Holloway: scorer

That's 8 guys, and only 2 of them can legitimately be called pass-first PGs. And Machado is a late 1st/early 2nd rounder at best and there are red flags about his conditioning and the fact that he plays for tiny Iona College from New York. The rest of them are, to varying degrees, shoot-first scoring PGs or so-called "combo guards" (another term I hate because "combo guard" is just code for "SG in a PG's body")

Of those 8, only Marshall and Machado posted PG-like assist #s. They were both close to 10 assists per game. The others? not one of them reached 5 assists per game. They were all in the mid 3s up to the high 4s. As a primary ball handler, you should be able to get 7-8 assists per game without trying if you play like an actual PG. It's the same principle as why we harp on Bargs for his rebounding.

I'll admit that Wroten is intriguing because he has size and shows the ability to be a distributor if someone can hammer it into his head that he'll have a longer career if he does so. I saw a report where some scouts call him Gary Payton 2.0, and that is exactly what I want. But others are concerned by his offensive tunnel-vision and his tendency to play recklessly and outside himself.

Marshall might be interesting, but it'd be hard to be a full-time starting PG in teh NBA if you have zero offensive game to keep defences honest (and aren't a good enough athlete to at least beat your man and fake drives to the hoop.)

The Raptors really need a young pass-first PG. But it looks like we're not getting one in the near future unless Colangelo has the fountain of youth and can revert Calderon to being a pre-injury 23 year old while retaining his current skill set. Or we need to pray that Myck Kabongo takes some steps forward before the 2013 draft and ends up in the Raptors pick range.
Rondo is a fine player who is offensively horrid

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