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Old
03-26-2012, 05:24 PM
  #101
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Originally Posted by Diatidialga View Post
Yep.

They really have done a terrible job building it on time. "High Winds" is no excuse to be nowhere never completion when it should be done in 3 months.

But hey, construction workers are paid by the hour
High winds + Cranes = Bad

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03-26-2012, 05:25 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Diatidialga View Post
Yep.

They really have done a terrible job building it on time. "High Winds" is no excuse to be nowhere never completion when it should be done in 3 months.

But hey, construction workers are paid by the hour
I think allot of the problem was there way over aggressive timeline to build it.
it would have taken a miracle if everything went perfect
let alone any delays
they should have just had it open next year

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03-26-2012, 05:28 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Tdoe42 View Post
High winds + Cranes = Bad
I know, but when the winds are to strong and you can't you the cranes, you finds something else to do so your not this far behind track.

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03-26-2012, 05:49 PM
  #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diatidialga View Post
Yep.

They really have done a terrible job building it on time. "High Winds" is no excuse to be nowhere never completion when it should be done in 3 months.

But hey, construction workers are paid by the hour
Alot of it is a product of being cheap. I work construction for the summers, and last summer I was working with some people that had just come from the stadium project. There was zero overtime being offered at all to anybody. 40 hour weeks. No night/afternoon shift. Hell, often when guys had to work through lunch they would simply send guys home 30 mins earlier rather than pay time and half for 30 MINUTES. Never heard of a site being that cheap with the labour.

It's not like that will save money. All those cranes/trucks/tools/equipment you see sitting around on the site run easily into the hundreds of thousands of dollars per month in rent, and when there is only workers using them 8 hours per day, that is a long time that stuff is sitting empty wasting money. Does not seem to be the best run project, IMO.

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03-26-2012, 05:52 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Holden Caulfield View Post
Alot of it is a product of being cheap. I work construction for the summers, and last summer I was working with some people that had just come from the stadium project. There was zero overtime being offered at all to anybody. 40 hour weeks. No night/afternoon shift. Hell, often when guys had to work through lunch they would simply send guys home 30 mins earlier rather than pay time and half for 30 MINUTES. Never heard of a site being that cheap with the labour.

It's not like that will save money. All those cranes/trucks/tools/equipment you see sitting around on the site run easily into the hundreds of thousands of dollars per month in rent, and when there is only workers using them 8 hours per day, that is a long time that stuff is sitting empty wasting money. Does not seem to be the best run project, IMO.
Unfortunately it seems to mirror the way the whole Bomber org. is run.

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03-26-2012, 05:54 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Holden Caulfield View Post
Alot of it is a product of being cheap. I work construction for the summers, and last summer I was working with some people that had just come from the stadium project. There was zero overtime being offered at all to anybody. 40 hour weeks. No night/afternoon shift. Hell, often when guys had to work through lunch they would simply send guys home 30 mins earlier rather than pay time and half for 30 MINUTES. Never heard of a site being that cheap with the labour.

It's not like that will save money. All those cranes/trucks/tools/equipment you see sitting around on the site run easily into the hundreds of thousands of dollars per month in rent, and when there is only workers using them 8 hours per day, that is a long time that stuff is sitting empty wasting money. Does not seem to be the best run project, IMO.
Simple... Its a Union job

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Old
03-26-2012, 06:19 PM
  #107
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Unfortunately it seems to mirror the way the whole Bomber org. is run.
Would like to see some examples of how the "entire Bomber organization" is cheap.

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03-26-2012, 07:40 PM
  #108
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Would like to see some examples of how the "entire Bomber organization" is cheap.
dysfunctional.

I think you can agree that it hasn't been great since Cal left.

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03-26-2012, 07:53 PM
  #109
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dysfunctional.

I think you can agree that it hasn't been great since Cal left.
I think that this current management of the football operations has been fantastic, to be quite honest.

I don't see how anybody could support the Jets management structure and speak poorly of Joe Mack. It's the exact same set of principles, only the Bombers accelerated their timeline and have fit it to match their scouting network. The only reason people have a problem with Joe Mack is because he has gotten rid of a few players that fans had an emotional attachment to.

Build with Canadians from within, develop a solid farm system (scouting network down south)

I won't even bother commenting on Lyle Bauer or Brendan Taman. That's over and done with.

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03-26-2012, 07:56 PM
  #110
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I think that this current management of the football operations has been fantastic, to be quite honest.

I don't see how anybody could support the Jets management structure and speak poorly of Joe Mack. It's the exact same set of principles, only the Bombers accelerated their timeline and have fit it to match their scouting network. The only reason people have a problem with Joe Mack is because he has gotten rid of a few players that fans had an emotional attachment to.

Build with Canadians from within, develop a solid farm system (scouting network down south)

I won't even bother commenting on Lyle Bauer or Brendan Taman. That's over and done with.
Say what you want about Taman, but he put together by far the best few seasons for the Bombers since 1991...

(Not that I was terribly upset when he was fired or am I advocating bring him back, but those really are the facts that cannot be disputed. MAYBE Mack can beat that, but we'll just have to see now won't we)

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03-26-2012, 08:06 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Jet Bomber View Post
I think that this current management of the football operations has been fantastic, to be quite honest.

I don't see how anybody could support the Jets management structure and speak poorly of Joe Mack. It's the exact same set of principles, only the Bombers accelerated their timeline and have fit it to match their scouting network. The only reason people have a problem with Joe Mack is because he has gotten rid of a few players that fans had an emotional attachment to.

Build with Canadians from within, develop a solid farm system (scouting network down south)

I won't even bother commenting on Lyle Bauer or Brendan Taman. That's over and done with.
All I see is tonnes of questionable moves, unhappy players, and a complete neglect of reality wrt the Stadium timetable.

This team will be hard pressed to win 5 games this year.

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03-26-2012, 08:19 PM
  #112
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unfortunately you are right.

likely a (max) 6-12 season this year, and no new stadium until 2013...

haven't seen one quality replacement yet for any of the players we've lost.


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All I see is tonnes of questionable moves, unhappy players, and a complete neglect of reality wrt the Stadium timetable.

This team will be hard pressed to win 5 games this year.

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Old
03-26-2012, 08:29 PM
  #113
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All I see is tonnes of questionable moves, unhappy players, and a complete neglect of reality wrt the Stadium timetable.

This team will be hard pressed to win 5 games this year.


I have to be honest. That sounds like a typical comment from someone who doesn't really understand the finer points of the CFL or follow the team seriously all year long. Maybe you've been reading the headlines but if you follow the Bombers and the CFL seriously and you know what they've got in their prospect pool, you might not be so worried.

You see questionable moves? Such as what, the Odell Willis trade? The biggest loss we suffered all offseason was Brendon Labatte. We can replace the imports with new imports. Scouting imports is something this management group has no problem with.

I'd be willing to make a VERY heavy bet that the Bombers win more than 5 games this year. I'm not going to predict anything regarding a stadium but really, what does that have to do with winning football games?

I just really fail to understand why posters here who I consider to be full of intelligence regarding the NHL and the Jets are so ... short-sighted regarding the CFL.

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03-26-2012, 08:31 PM
  #114
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I miss Milt Stegall. And all the other guys from that epic as **** 2001 season. Charles Roberts, Khari Jones...

What the hell happened?

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03-26-2012, 08:35 PM
  #115
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I will never claim to be a CFL armchair manager. However I will say this. I just hope that our management cares enough about the team and it's fanbase to build a winner out of this franchise considering our Grey Cup drought instead of just lining their pockets and marveling at a new stadium.

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03-26-2012, 08:35 PM
  #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jet Bomber View Post


I have to be honest. That sounds like a typical comment from someone who doesn't really understand the finer points of the CFL or follow the team seriously all year long. Maybe you've been reading the headlines but if you follow the Bombers and the CFL seriously and you know what they've got in their prospect pool, you might not be so worried.

You see questionable moves? Such as what, the Odell Willis trade? The biggest loss we suffered all offseason was Brendon Labatte. We can replace the imports with new imports. Scouting imports is something this management group has no problem with.

I'd be willing to make a VERY heavy bet that the Bombers win more than 5 games this year. I'm not going to predict anything regarding a stadium but really, what does that have to do with winning football games?
That's fine. You know more about the Bombers than I, can't deny that.

I just go by my experience. The games I watched last year, the people that I've heard from from around the team, and sorry, but the management of the stadium and its timeline says a lot about the organization and it's professionalism.

You also didn't address the players negative feelings about the organization. That speaks volumes.

At any rate, I'm not going to get into a heated debate about it. Time will tell.

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03-26-2012, 08:37 PM
  #117
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After a good season last year, I hope they can repeat their performance.

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03-26-2012, 08:42 PM
  #118
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I'll expand regarding a few things:

- Losing Labatte will hurt, but on the bright side, the ONE exciting prospect we have on the offensive line who is ready to move into a full time starting job happens to be a guy who plays the exact same spot as Labatte. Chris Greaves will be a downgrade but his upside is very high and if you have already forgotten, he started last year for Labatte and there was NO drop-off whatsoever.

- The retirement of Doug Brown is a shame but the reality of the situation is that Doug Brown spent last year being a part time player as part of a defensive rotation. We have prepared accordingly for his retirement as far as the non-import ratio goes and eased players into his spot part time last year. As far as playing time goes, Doug Brown played roughly 58% of the defensive snaps last year. We're not replacing a full time player.

- Regarding the Odell Willis trade, I know everyone is a Odell fan and that the emotional separation sucks because the guy was a fan favorite but the simple fact is that Odell has an intention to try the NFL next season and we traded the remaining year on his contract for two high picks in what is regarded as the best CFL draft in years, possibly ever. The defensive line is our deepest spot as far as import talent goes. If this was a Jets trade, trading a proven asset from an area of great depth in order to obtain futures in a VERY deep draft would be considered a GREAT deal. I know Odell is regarded quite higher, but I have to say it anyways ... nobody hated the Johnny Oduya trade for the Jets and the two are VERY comparable.

- Regarding Don Oramasionwu ... his skillset does NOT fit our defensive scheme. We need a zero or one technique DT to replace Doug Brown, not a three technique (which is what Donny O is). Donny O would not have been capable of replacing Brown and he would not have been a starter here because he is not better than our current three technique DT. Therefore, we didn't tender an offer.

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03-26-2012, 08:50 PM
  #119
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That's fine. You know more about the Bombers than I, can't deny that.

I just go by my experience. The games I watched last year, the people that I've heard from from around the team, and sorry, but the management of the stadium and its timeline says a lot about the organization and it's professionalism.

You also didn't address the players negative feelings about the organization. That speaks volumes.

At any rate, I'm not going to get into a heated debate about it. Time will tell.
I'll address the players' negative feelings about the organization because I feel it ties in very well to your comments regarding Cal Murphy.

It is speculated, based on social media, that several of our younger players (Jovon, Hefney, Beasley) do not like Joe Mack. By all accounts, we've had just as many young players (Alex Brink, Marcellus Bowman, Kito Poblah, etc) speak very positively of our management. Either way, it has to do a lot with the young guys not understanding that football is a BUSINESS and Mack plays hardball.

Considering you brought up Cal Murphy earlier, I feel it's only fair to point out that it's on record that a lot of the players from his era absolutely HATED Cal Murphy as a boss. Didn't stop them from winning.

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03-26-2012, 09:25 PM
  #120
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I just really fail to understand why posters here who I consider to be full of intelligence regarding the NHL and the Jets are so ... short-sighted regarding the CFL.
Let me ask you this. Would it be smart for the Jets to release Mittienen, Slater, Glass, Thorburn, Wellwood, Hainsey, Mason because we can always replace them with Machacek, Telegin, Scheifele, Klingberg, Kulda, Postma, Pasquale? Sure that might work for a while, but eventually you need to retain your talent. Thus far we have failed to do so. We have failed to bring in any proven talent to replace them. We lost big money players in Labatte, Reid, Brown, Willis and not added any significant salary. We are all those dollars now going?

You call me short sighted, but the Bombers are not at the same level as the Jets. The Jets are patiently building through draft building a team. The Bombers are going for the Grey Cup. They are supposed to be in win-now mode. Where as I am not terribly opposed to an Enstrom trade since we are still a couple of seasons away from Cup Contending and he is UFA after this year, I WILL FREAK THE **** OUT if Johnson is traded even though he will likely leave after this year. Different team, different expectations.

I know you have a much different perspective on these moves than others, but it does not make one more valid than others. Until this year I have been a much bigger Bomber fan than NHL fan. I know how to value non-imports versus imports, I know the roster rules, I have seen the moves made around the league, I really do know my Bombers. Just because I do not agree with you, does not make my opinion any less valid.

The Bombers are a team in a win-now mode, I do not like this apparent look of perpetually rebuilding. Hell maybe I'm wrong, maybe we dominate. But I look at the holes in the Bomber roster and they have only gotten bigger this off-season, IMO. You can depend on rookies and scouting only so much. I was hoping for a Grey Cup NEXT YEAR, not another year waiting for NI talent to develop.

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03-26-2012, 09:33 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by Holden Caulfield View Post
Let me ask you this. Would it be smart for the Jets to release Mittienen, Slater, Glass, Thorburn, Wellwood, Hainsey, Mason because we can always replace them with Machacek, Telegin, Scheifele, Klingberg, Kulda, Postma, Pasquale? Sure that might work for a while, but eventually you need to retain your talent. Thus far we have failed to do so. We have failed to bring in any proven talent to replace them. We lost big money players in Labatte, Reid, Brown, Willis and not added any significant salary. We are all those dollars now going?

You call me short sighted, but the Bombers are not at the same level as the Jets. The Jets are patiently building through draft building a team. The Bombers are going for the Grey Cup. They are supposed to be in win-now mode. Where as I am not terribly opposed to an Enstrom trade since we are still a couple of seasons away from Cup Contending and he is UFA after this year, I WILL FREAK THE **** OUT if Johnson is traded even though he will likely leave after this year. Different team, different expectations.

I know you have a much different perspective on these moves than others, but it does not make one more valid than others. Until this year I have been a much bigger Bomber fan than NHL fan. I know how to value non-imports versus imports, I know the roster rules, I have seen the moves made around the league, I really do know my Bombers. Just because I do not agree with you, does not make my opinion any less valid.

The Bombers are a team in a win-now mode, I do not like this apparent look of perpetually rebuilding. Hell maybe I'm wrong, maybe we dominate. But I look at the holes in the Bomber roster and they have only gotten bigger this off-season, IMO. You can depend on rookies and scouting only so much. I was hoping for a Grey Cup NEXT YEAR, not another year waiting for NI talent to develop.
You make it sound like it's a laundry list of players we lost. I suggest you compare it to the list of players that other teams across the league have lost as well.

Roster turnover is normal in the CFL. Losing 4 starters out of 24 is not unreasonable by any stretch, especially when one of them was a retirement and one of them was deemed expendable via trade.

All I know is that people were whining about EVERYTHING last year too and look how that turned out. Last year, the fans were enraged at the LACK of moves. This year, they're enraged because we DID make moves. Can't win in Winnipeg with these fans.

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03-26-2012, 09:38 PM
  #122
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You make it sound like it's a laundry list of players we lost. I suggest you compare it to the list of players that other teams across the league have lost as well.

Roster turnover is normal in the CFL. Losing 4 starters out of 24 is not unreasonable by any stretch, especially when one of them was a retirement and one of them was deemed expendable via trade.

All I know is that people were whining about EVERYTHING last year too and look how that turned out. Last year, the fans were enraged at the LACK of moves. This year, they're enraged because we DID make moves. Can't win in Winnipeg with these fans.
Do you honestly believe the Bombers record last year did not involve a lot of luck and good fortune?

If you attend the games surely you saw this. We won games we had no business winning. Our D was other worldly, both defending and scoring our points. It is not sustainable, especially since we've lost key pieces of that D

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03-26-2012, 09:43 PM
  #123
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You make it sound like it's a laundry list of players we lost. I suggest you compare it to the list of players that other teams across the league have lost as well.

Roster turnover is normal in the CFL. Losing 4 starters out of 24 is not unreasonable by any stretch, especially when one of them was a retirement and one of them was deemed expendable via trade.

All I know is that people were whining about EVERYTHING last year too and look how that turned out. Last year, the fans were enraged at the LACK of moves. This year, they're enraged because we DID make moves. Can't win in Winnipeg with these fans.
Depends on who you ask. Last year overall I was pretty happy with the off-season. I was minorly pissed at the draft, I was drooling over the prospect of a NI starting LT, and I thought with Poblah that Etienne was a bit of stretch, esspecially considering he only had one good year in college. Now maybe that works out IDK, still not my favourite, but overall I was fairly happy with the off-season.

It's not just sheer numbers of players lost that is frusterating. It's that we lost players in perceived weak spots (O-Line, WR/SB, and now D-Line) and failed to add anything at all. We also did nothing we can see to improve the QB, Kicking, or LB spots (we used Labbe on defense last year , he is a very solid special teamer but god is he beyond awful on defense). We are completely dependant on unknowns stepping up if we wanna get better. Hey maybe it works, but not my favourite strategy. May have made Grey Cup, but we were only 10-8, hardly world beaters (with probably the worst offense in the league).

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03-26-2012, 09:47 PM
  #124
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Do you honestly believe the Bombers record last year did not involve a lot of luck and good fortune?

If you attend the games surely you saw this. We won games we had no business winning. Our D was other worldly, both defending and scoring our points. It is not sustainable, especially since we've lost key pieces of that D
Luck and good fortune? What I saw was excellent defensive game planning that consistently confused top tier offensive attacks. It is most certainly sustainable, considering the only two pieces we lost were both part time players towards the second half of the season.

Odell Willis and Doug Brown are good quality football players, but they're two individual pieces that can be replaced. Meanwhile, the rest of our young defensive core will continue to improve. We're not going to pretend this young defense has already peaked, are we?

There's a reason Tim Burke has been in 4 straight Grey Cups as a coach. He knows what he is doing with defenses. Bringing him back this year was a HUGE move and will be far more important than the losses of Willis and Brown.

Speaking of luck, as it obviously plays a part in EVERY team's season, weren't we only a few inches away from a game winning field goal vs. Calgary? What if lady luck is on our side at the Skydome and we win in that crazy game late-season against Toronto instead of losing with half our offense out because of various injuries? Luck works both ways, amigo.

But really, if you think "luck", Odell Willis, Doug Brown and Brendon Labatte are the differences between a Grey Cup appearance and a 5 win season then ... so be it. You're entitled to your opinion. We can come back to this in September.

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03-26-2012, 09:53 PM
  #125
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It's not just sheer numbers of players lost that is frusterating. It's that we lost players in perceived weak spots (O-Line, WR/SB, and now D-Line) and failed to add anything at all. We also did nothing we can see to improve the QB, Kicking, or LB spots (we used Labbe on defense last year , he is a very solid special teamer but god is he beyond awful on defense). We are completely dependant on unknowns stepping up if we wanna get better. Hey maybe it works, but not my favourite strategy. May have made Grey Cup, but we were only 10-8, hardly world beaters (with probably the worst offense in the league).
Perceived weak spots at wide receiver and defensive line? Those, along with the secondary and the depth at quarterback, are the strongest points on our entire team. I cannot believe anyone actually believes those are WEAK areas.

As for not improving the QB position, we retained our three free agents-to-be for another 2-3 years a piece. Considering Brink and Elliott are regarded as two of the brightest QB prospects in the league, I'm not sure what a more appropriate alternative would have been?

As far as the kicking game goes, I suggest we wait until the CFL Draft is over. A certain Bomber hall of famer has a son who just happens to be eligible this year as a kicker. And he's a damn good one. We'll see if we draft him.

Linebackers? I can't comment but it's not an incredibly weak position. Middle linebacker is the weakest spot of the three and in all honesty, it's not a focal point for our defense like it would be in other defenses. We don't funnel the opposing rushers to our MLB like many defenses, so I'm hopefully Muamba or even a guy like JMK that we brought in at the midway point last year can step in if Lobendahn isn't healthy. All we need is a high football IQ. We don't NEED an Elimimian type, even if it'd be nice.

P.S. Not liking the Etienne pick because we had Poblah is a bit of revisionist history. Poblah wasn't even confirmed as a non-import when we drafted Etienne.

P.S.2 I'm worried about the offensive line as well. Major sore point for me. I'd also like to see more competition at the 0DT spot. The rest of the line is very solid, very deep ... but I'd like a few more bodies competing for the 0DT to replace Big Doug. My only other area of immediate concern? Special teams. Find someone who can return the ball consistently and improve on the penalties.

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