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05-27-2012, 10:33 PM
  #301
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Umm this is this is the Sami Vatanen thread, right ? ...


Do the ducks have room for Vatenen in the top 4? Or would Vis, or Lydman have to be moved, to make a spot?

/ would he make sense on the bottom pairing?

Beauch/Fowler
Sbisa/ Visnovsky
Vatanen/ Lydman

In theory... That's a well rounded d corps. Offensive guy on each pairing, along with a defence first guy. Let's see it in practice first.

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05-27-2012, 11:07 PM
  #302
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Look good on paper, but it is still unknown how well he will be able to transition next season. He lacks size and is going to have to get used to constant physical domination. If he is able to make the roster, I think you are right in placing him on the third line.

My guess is that we will see him in an AHL jersey next season.

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05-27-2012, 11:14 PM
  #303
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Nothing wrong with having a good PMD on the third pairing. The Ducks offense has never been better than when Huskins and Schneider were the third pairing.

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05-27-2012, 11:16 PM
  #304
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Nothing wrong with having a good PMD on the third pairing. The Ducks offense has never been better than when Huskins and Schneider were the third pairing.
Haha, well, that might have to do with that fact that Mathieu freakin Schneider was on the third pairing.

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05-27-2012, 11:28 PM
  #305
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Originally Posted by Bobby Ryan Getzlaf View Post
Haha, well, that might have to do with that fact that Mathieu freakin Schneider was on the third pairing.
The same Schneider that the Ducks had to give away to Atlanta and take back multiple contracts for players who never actually played for the Ducks the very next year, yes.

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05-27-2012, 11:41 PM
  #306
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The same Schneider that the Ducks had to give away to Atlanta and take back multiple contracts for players who never actually played for the Ducks the very next year, yes.
I hope you aren't serious. That move had everything to do with the cap, as the Ducks were well over and he was the easiest guy to trade to clear that room. In no way was he dealt due to concerns over his play, he was our most consistent defenseman that year.

That defense we fielded in 07-08 might've been the best the NHL has ever seen in the modern era. It was absolutely ridiculous.

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05-27-2012, 11:51 PM
  #307
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby Ryan Getzlaf View Post
I hope you aren't serious. That move had everything to do with the cap, as the Ducks were well over and he was the easiest guy to trade to clear that room. In no way was he dealt due to concerns over his play, he was our most consistent defenseman that year.

That defense we fielded in 07-08 might've been the best the NHL has ever seen in the modern era. It was absolutely ridiculous.
He was still offensively gifted but he was a bit of a liability defensively. The move was for cap, but they couldn't get anyone to send back a single useful player, he was brittle as hell, he sucked that year in Atlanta, and he was essentially out of the NHL the next year.

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05-27-2012, 11:57 PM
  #308
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Originally Posted by Ducks DVM View Post
He was still offensively gifted but he was a bit of a liability defensively. The move was for cap, but they couldn't get anyone to send back a single useful player, he was brittle as hell, he sucked that year in Atlanta, and he was essentially out of the NHL the next year.
Atlanta moved him for a 2nd and a 3rd, you know that, right? He didn't last long the next year, but age will do that. I have zero complaints about his play and we all knew at the time we were getting nothing for him considering our cap situation. Had to trade him and weren't rich enough to bury him in the minors, no team was giving up anything for that.

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05-28-2012, 12:07 AM
  #309
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby Ryan Getzlaf View Post
Atlanta moved him for a 2nd and a 3rd, you know that, right? He didn't last long the next year, but age will do that. I have zero complaints about his play and we all knew at the time we were getting nothing for him considering our cap situation. Had to trade him and weren't rich enough to bury him in the minors, no team was giving up anything for that.
Yes, I also know he got sheltered minutes on defense playing with Perry and Getzlaf and was a distant 6th for PK time amongst the defensemen. Like I said, he was still an offensive weapon but his defense was questionable, and he was abysmal in the playoffs. Almost half his points were off the PP to boot. His points also dropped to 39 points from 52 the year before - he was already breaking down.

Regardless, the point still stands that it isn't the worst thing in the world to have a skilled PMD on the third pairing, especially if they want to roll 3 scoring lines. It just makes it more important that the other guy can be physical.

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05-28-2012, 12:27 AM
  #310
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Originally Posted by Ducks DVM View Post
Yes, I also know he got sheltered minutes on defense playing with Perry and Getzlaf and was a distant 6th for PK time amongst the defensemen. Like I said, he was still an offensive weapon but his defense was questionable, and he was abysmal in the playoffs. Almost half his points were off the PP to boot. His points also dropped to 39 points from 52 the year before - he was already breaking down.

Regardless, the point still stands that it isn't the worst thing in the world to have a skilled PMD on the third pairing, especially if they want to roll 3 scoring lines. It just makes it more important that the other guy can be physical.
Fair enough. And yes, I agree it's not the worst thing, although on this team, I'm not sure we want or need it right now. As the defense stands right now, it'd probably be in our best interests for it to by Lydman and a physical guy(Clark) while Vatanen gets some seasoning in the AHL. If we make a move, maybe we do things a little differently, although if Visnovsky stays, it might be a good idea to go with two defensive guys to go along with Beauch and Sbisa.

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05-28-2012, 12:35 AM
  #311
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby Ryan Getzlaf View Post
Fair enough. And yes, I agree it's not the worst thing, although on this team, I'm not sure we want or need it right now. As the defense stands right now, it'd probably be in our best interests for it to by Lydman and a physical guy(Clark) while Vatanen gets some seasoning in the AHL. If we make a move, maybe we do things a little differently, although if Visnovsky stays, it might be a good idea to go with two defensive guys to go along with Beauch and Sbisa.
That's probably best. I'm trying to find a bright spot and hope that they actually find a decent 2C and that Vatanen is better than everyone expects though, I haven't seen enough of him to have an honest opinion


Last edited by Ducks DVM: 05-28-2012 at 10:59 AM.
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05-28-2012, 04:36 AM
  #312
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Originally Posted by Ducks DVM View Post
Vatanen is better than everyone expects
Came to say this. Vatanen is better than everyone expects. Don't miss the camps and the pre-season, because after those, everybody will know he what he is . 10+25 season, here we come!

(By the way, for those who are afraid about Vatanen's defense, he is one of the best defenders in the defensive zone in FEL and has been used in PK also for two years. And won the award for best defender two times in a row.)

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05-28-2012, 05:24 AM
  #313
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Originally Posted by Henkine View Post
Came to say this. Vatanen is better than everyone expects. Don't miss the camps and the pre-season, because after those, everybody will know he what he is . 10+25 season, here we come!

(By the way, for those who are afraid about Vatanen's defense, he is one of the best defenders in the defensive zone in FEL and has been used in PK also for two years. And won the award for best defender two times in a row.)
I kinda figured this... ( that his defensive game is underated)

I guess my suggestion earlier about trying him out as a forward would be kind of like a slap in the face for the winner of the FEL best defenceman award two years in a row...

Really hope he makes the team, always great to see young guys make the big team out of camp.

And for a young finn, I don't think you could ask for anything better than starting your NHL career on a squad with Finnish legends Teemu Selanne and Saku Koivu... In what could, very well, be both of their final seasons. And maybe even on a defensive pairing with fellow countryman Toni Lydman!

Pretty sure he'd be paired with Lydman if he makes the team... I don't think we'd trust a pairing of Sbisa-Vatanen quite yet

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05-28-2012, 06:17 AM
  #314
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I dont think he will be able to put up 10 goals right away. Fowler had 10 in his first year while he was playing top PP minutes.

I could expect 10 goals from him in some point of his career, but not right away. I think he will have to adjust to NA game. He is great in highlights i`ve seen, but some of his plays wont went through in NA, and he would be crashed against the boards in some episodes. I just dont believe undersized D-men can come in that good right away.
Some AHL time first and he`ll be ok

Is there free room in Niedermayers house in next few seasons?


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05-28-2012, 09:22 AM
  #315
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Put him in Koivu or Teemu's house

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05-28-2012, 10:09 AM
  #316
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Whereever you put him...don't let him stay @ Getzlaf's mansion He'll grow bald and desinterested in hockey

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05-28-2012, 03:19 PM
  #317
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Ducks preseason/season avatars of Vatanen and what would happen to him if he stayed at some of our players/prospects/staff/ ex Ducks house? Expressing everyones abilities and qualities. FE - let him stay at Boudreaus to learn the language, stay at Sbisa to learn physical play etc?

Anyway, here is the newest Teemu blog translated. He gives advices to Vatanen and Granlund - 2 most highly touted Finnish prospects at the moment. One thing that got me interested and i think should work really well is to bring Sami to see some SC Final games. Teemu had that opportunity to, and he had... well quite ok rookie season i guess.

I think it would work with Vatanen to, since he is somehow similar to Finnish Flash - skiled player, but understands the power of work and this opportunity would give him extra boost imo. Since some games will be right here, in LA, it would be great if Sami came over to see the environment around and visit some cup games. Hard to say if we would provide him that opportunity though. There is still time.

So, heres the link:
http://www.battleofcali.com/2012/5/2...welcome-to-nhl

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05-28-2012, 03:34 PM
  #318
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalvinators View Post
Some AHL time first and he`ll be ok
I hear you, but here are listed Vatanen's achievements from his three seasons in FEL (which is on par or better than AHL):

2009-2010 30 points in 55gp
SM-liiga Bronze Medal

2010-2011 31 points in 52gp
SM-liiga All-Star Team
SM-liiga Best Defenseman "Pekka Rautakallio Award"
SM-liiga Best Plus/Minus (+30)
SM-liiga Player of the Month (Nov)

2011-2012 42 points in 49gp
SM-liiga All-Star Team
SM-liiga Best Defenseman "Pekka Rautakallio Award"
SM-liiga Champion

So my guess still is, there is no need for a visit in the AHL for the mighty 44. And I would even go as far as to say that he doesn't need top PP time to pot 25ish points in his rookie season. But of course that would probably limit his goal totals somewhere below ten.

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05-28-2012, 04:00 PM
  #319
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalvinators View Post
Ducks preseason/season avatars of Vatanen and what would happen to him if he stayed at some of our players/prospects/staff/ ex Ducks house? Expressing everyones abilities and qualities. FE - let him stay at Boudreaus to learn the language, stay at Sbisa to learn physical play etc?
From Bobby Ryan he would learn about patience and not expecting to control the remote too often

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05-28-2012, 04:11 PM
  #320
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From Bobby Ryan he would learn about patience and not expecting to control the remote too often
And from him perhaps Bobby would learn how to stay upright on ice skates..........

No

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05-28-2012, 04:29 PM
  #321
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Umm this is this is the Sami Vatanen thread, right ? ...


Do the ducks have room for Vatenen in the top 4? Or would Vis, or Lydman have to be moved, to make a spot?

/ would he make sense on the bottom pairing?

Beauch/Fowler
Sbisa/ Visnovsky
Vatanen/ Lydman

In theory... That's a well rounded d corps. Offensive guy on each pairing, along with a defence first guy. Let's see it in practice first.
If it were me, I'd probably start with Lydman/Visnovsky. That pairing was our best not too long ago, and injuries really hurt their ability to be effective last season. If we can get them going again, we'd have two pretty good pairings in Franky/Fowler and Lydman/Visnovsky.

If Sbisa can prove he belongs there instead of Lydman, then let him earn that spot, but I think I'd go with the tried and true pairing that helped get us into the playoffs.

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05-28-2012, 04:32 PM
  #322
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As for where Vatanen starts, let him start on the 3rd pairing(assuming he makes the team straight out, which is entirely possible). We don't need to pencil an unknown into the top 4. We made that mistake before, and it wasn't pleasant. Start him on the 3rd pairing, with some 2nd unit PP time. I think he'll do pretty well, but I have no problem with starting a player slowly and working them into it. It worked well with Bobby Ryan, and it's what we did with Sbisa after putting him into a role he wasn't ready for.

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05-28-2012, 06:04 PM
  #323
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Henkine View Post
I hear you, but here are listed Vatanen's achievements from his three seasons in FEL (which is on par or better than AHL):

2009-2010 30 points in 55gp
SM-liiga Bronze Medal

2010-2011 31 points in 52gp
SM-liiga All-Star Team
SM-liiga Best Defenseman "Pekka Rautakallio Award"
SM-liiga Best Plus/Minus (+30)
SM-liiga Player of the Month (Nov)

2011-2012 42 points in 49gp
SM-liiga All-Star Team
SM-liiga Best Defenseman "Pekka Rautakallio Award"
SM-liiga Champion

So my guess still is, there is no need for a visit in the AHL for the mighty 44. And I would even go as far as to say that he doesn't need top PP time to pot 25ish points in his rookie season. But of course that would probably limit his goal totals somewhere below ten.
I don't think anyone is doubting his abilities, but there is no denying that there is a difference between NA hockey and the FEL. That is why many believe he may need time in the AHL.

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05-28-2012, 07:31 PM
  #324
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If it were me, I'd probably start with Lydman/Visnovsky. That pairing was our best not too long ago, and injuries really hurt their ability to be effective last season. If we can get them going again, we'd have two pretty good pairings in Franky/Fowler and Lydman/Visnovsky.

If Sbisa can prove he belongs there instead of Lydman, then let him earn that spot, but I think I'd go with the tried and true pairing that helped get us into the playoffs.


I really don't think BB would start Vatanen out on a pairing with Sbisa... Sbisa sure has improved... But he doesn't have the experience of Lydman quite yet. Plus putting him on a pairing with a guy who speaks Finnish might make for some interesting on ice communication between the two,

Who would Vatanen be paired with? Those pairings were based off "what if Vatanen makes the team"...

Usually rookies are paired with Veterans to help them with rookie mistakes, etc.

I don't think it comes down to so much Sbisa having to prove he earned a spot with Vis over Lydman... As it is wanting to start Vatanen off with a veteran player.

Also, I'd say let Lydman earn his spot with visnovsky ... Both of them haven't rebounded yet... So let's wait and see.

Personally, I think Vatanen is going to make the team out of camp. I've called Fowler and DSP making the team out of camp the last two seasons... This year my bets are on Vatanen.

Think Etem has about a 50/50 chance.

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05-28-2012, 07:37 PM
  #325
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Originally Posted by Sojourn View Post
As for where Vatanen starts, let him start on the 3rd pairing(assuming he makes the team straight out, which is entirely possible). We don't need to pencil an unknown into the top 4. We made that mistake before, and it wasn't pleasant. Start him on the 3rd pairing, with some 2nd unit PP time. I think he'll do pretty well, but I have no problem with starting a player slowly and working them into it. It worked well with Bobby Ryan, and it's what we did with Sbisa after putting him into a role he wasn't ready for.

Personally, I think we should try him out on the first pp unit on the point with Vis. But agreed on him being placed on the third unit.

Selanne-Getzlaf-Perry
Vatanen-Visnovsky

DSP-Koivu-Ryan
Fowler-Beauchimen

... I haven't been that impressed with Fowler on the PP... He's a great passer, but he barely ever gets a good shot on goal. Vatanen is supposed to have a cannon like Visnovsky... So I think it could be worth trying those two on the points.

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