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Old
10-22-2012, 02:27 AM
  #601
SupermanPahlsson
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I understand why Souray was signed (so that defensive prospects aren't rushed like Fowler and Sbisa were), but it would've been nice to see a Lydman-Vatanen pair. Vatanen could've played a role like Visnovsky, and the fact that they're fellow countrymen could've helped make the transition much smoother for Sami. IMO, Lydman is still pretty serviceable, considering last year he was probably still feeling the effects of shoulder surgery.

Instead we have Souray, Allen, Beauchemin and Sbisa locked up for three more years, Fowler for five more, and only one spot to use on either Hampus or Sami.

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10-22-2012, 03:51 AM
  #602
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I understand why Souray was signed (so that defensive prospects aren't rushed like Fowler and Sbisa were), but it would've been nice to see a Lydman-Vatanen pair. Vatanen could've played a role like Visnovsky, and the fact that they're fellow countrymen could've helped make the transition much smoother for Sami. IMO, Lydman is still pretty serviceable, considering last year he was probably still feeling the effects of shoulder surgery.

Instead we have Souray, Allen, Beauchemin and Sbisa locked up for three more years, Fowler for five more, and only one spot to use on either Hampus or Sami.
I'm with this guy, Lydman-Vatanen is a pairing that should be tried. Also, I don't want to see Lydman getting traded before he has had the chance to play a game. Who knows, maybe he has a better season or if Souray gets injured and Vatanen isn't ready so they might need a veteran defender.

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10-22-2012, 12:10 PM
  #603
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Not to mention, as already mentioned, injuries are a real risk. It's easy to break your hand on someone else's face, and when you get yanked to the ice it can be awkward and uncontrolled, which is when you pull and tear things.

I understand that there is a time and a place(Beauchemin vs. Iginla comes to mind), but I'd just rather it be an exception, and not an expectation. Games are won by players on the ice.
I also think that, like the NFL, hockey will move towards a less physical direction for liability reasons. All those concussions got the NFL to change things to the point where if you breathe on a receiver, you get a penalty. Result is that little guys like Wes Welker, who would have been killed in the old days, can now scat around unmolested and break receiving records. Guys like Ronnie Lott could never do what they did in today's NFL.

Something similar will happen to hockey, for better or worse. Which will, by extension, mean less and less need for enforcers. You'll still need to win battles along the boards and in front of the net, which is why I think Vatanen will need the right big physical partner, but there's going to be less need for fighting if things go the way I suspect that they're heading. The NHL isn't going to want it to get to the point of former players bringing a class action lawsuit against the league, like the NFL is dealing with. Like it or not, the '07 Ducks might end up as one of the last of the old-school teams that could bully its way to the Cup.

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10-22-2012, 12:32 PM
  #604
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I think Souray retires after a major injury in the next couple years, just a hunch(and prayer).

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10-22-2012, 12:52 PM
  #605
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I think Souray retires after a major injury in the next couple years, just a hunch(and prayer).
BM is a ****ing idiot for giving Souray 3 years.

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10-22-2012, 01:17 PM
  #606
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BM is a ****ing idiot for giving Souray 3 years.
Why dont we wait till he has played 1 game before we start the hate train. People though BM was terrible for not giving those defenders 5-6 mil a year and only signing Lydman. Well Lydman was the best UFA defender signing that year.

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10-22-2012, 01:20 PM
  #607
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Why dont we wait till he has played 1 game before we start the hate train. People though BM was terrible for not giving those defenders 5-6 mil a year and only signing Lydman. Well Lydman was the best UFA defender signing that year.
Fair enough, but I'd bet a lot of money that we'll be trying to bury Souray in the minors at some point. He's too injury prone and old to be given a 3 year deal to in my mind.

BTW, I've held that stance since the day he was signed. Loved the Allen signing hated the Souray signing.

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10-22-2012, 01:54 PM
  #608
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gliff View Post
I think Souray retires after a major injury in the next couple years, just a hunch(and prayer).
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Originally Posted by Gliff View Post
Why dont we wait till he has played 1 game before we start the hate train. People though BM was terrible for not giving those defenders 5-6 mil a year and only signing Lydman. Well Lydman was the best UFA defender signing that year.
Aren't you contradicting yourself? If he retires early he counts against the cap and it will bear out why many think it was a poor decision to give him 3 years. It won't make BM look good.

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10-22-2012, 02:18 PM
  #609
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Why dont we wait till he has played 1 game before we start the hate train. People though BM was terrible for not giving those defenders 5-6 mil a year and only signing Lydman. Well Lydman was the best UFA defender signing that year.
tbh it seems like hes thinking that the 3 year contract as the stupid part. not signing him.

for me i didn't mind signing him at all. but the 3 year contract was definitely stupid on his part IMO. especially if he counts against the cap regardless of retirement/injuries.. considering how injury prone he is its pretty stupid to give him a 3 year contract especially considering how old he is.

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10-22-2012, 02:23 PM
  #610
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Aren't you contradicting yourself? If he retires early he counts against the cap and it will bear out why many think it was a poor decision to give him 3 years. It won't make BM look good.
My hunch doesnt mean we should crucify BM before Souray plays a game. And what would him retiring have anything to do with the future. Unless we are spending to the cap the capspace wont effect us at all.

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10-22-2012, 02:35 PM
  #611
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tbh it seems like hes thinking that the 3 year contract as the stupid part. not signing him.

for me i didn't mind signing him at all. but the 3 year contract was definitely stupid on his part IMO. especially if he counts against the cap regardless of retirement/injuries.. considering how injury prone he is its pretty stupid to give him a 3 year contract especially considering how old he is.
I agree but if he comes in and scores 40 points and provides physical play for 2 years then wouldnt you acept the extra bad year?

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10-22-2012, 02:40 PM
  #612
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Originally Posted by Gliff View Post
My hunch doesnt mean we should crucify BM before Souray plays a game.
I'm with you here. Although I do think it was a poor decision it's hardly worth beating to death.


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And what would him retiring have anything to do with the future. Unless we are spending to the cap the capspace wont effect us at all.
The fact that we may not be spending to the cap limit does not give BM or anyone a free pass for making bad decisions (assuming it turns out to be a bad decision) that could turn out to hurt the team. If the cap comes down, it doesn't necessarily mean we will reduce our internal cap by the exact same absolute dollar amount. We might end up spending closer to the cap limit in the future. We just don't know.

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10-22-2012, 04:21 PM
  #613
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My hunch doesnt mean we should crucify BM before Souray plays a game. And what would him retiring have anything to do with the future. Unless we are spending to the cap the capspace wont effect us at all.
That's incredibly short-sighted.

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10-22-2012, 04:24 PM
  #614
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I agree but if he comes in and scores 40 points and provides physical play for 2 years then wouldnt you acept the extra bad year?
It would make it easier to swallow, but that doesn't change the fact there would be a bad year. You're arguing the degree of the mistake it might turn out to be. At what point do you consider a mistake to be bad? What does it need to cost Anaheim to be a black mark?

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10-22-2012, 04:58 PM
  #615
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That's incredibly short-sighted.
And *****ing about the signing before he plays a game is smart and thoughtfull?

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It would make it easier to swallow, but that doesn't change the fact there would be a bad year. You're arguing the degree of the mistake it might turn out to be. At what point do you consider a mistake to be bad? What does it need to cost Anaheim to be a black mark?
I have no problem admitting BM made a mistake when this actually becomes a mistake. A mistake is a mistake, but noone knows how this is going to work out. There is a point where the downside outweighs the upside. I dont know where that point is since that is an opinion and not fact. Everyone will feel differently about this.

If SOuray comes in and is solid and doesnt get injured, you will still have people *****ing that we didnt sign Suter or make a trade or something. It happens every year.

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10-22-2012, 05:18 PM
  #616
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And *****ing about the signing before he plays a game is smart and thoughtfull?
Signing an incredibly injury prone player with a history like Souray's to a 3 year 35+ worth $10M contract is a very risky move. I don't see why people shouldn't be *****ing about the signing, it's almost certainly going to hurt us by the 3rd year of the deal, if not sooner.

If somebody made a post on this forum on June 30th saying that they wanted to sign Souray to this exact deal they would have been crucified.

I do like the look of the defense going into the season. But the term, price and NMC involved in this deal make it a bad signing.

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10-22-2012, 05:31 PM
  #617
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And *****ing about the signing before he plays a game is smart and thoughtfull?

I have no problem admitting BM made a mistake when this actually becomes a mistake. A mistake is a mistake, but noone knows how this is going to work out. There is a point where the downside outweighs the upside. I dont know where that point is since that is an opinion and not fact. Everyone will feel differently about this.

If SOuray comes in and is solid and doesnt get injured, you will still have people *****ing that we didnt sign Suter or make a trade or something. It happens every year.
You're making this out to be way too black or white. Either it's proven to be a mistake, or it isn't, but until one of those two happens we can't express concern, or discuss the possibilities? Actually, it's more like the probabilities, when you consider Souray's history. What does the past six or seven years suggest about the next three?

A player doesn't need to play for a contract to look dubious.

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10-22-2012, 05:37 PM
  #618
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If somebody made a post on this forum on June 30th saying that they wanted to sign Souray to this exact deal they would have been crucified.
And for good reason. Has Souray ever had three straight seasons you could call good, or healthy? Even two good healthy ones seems like a challenge for him.

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10-22-2012, 05:44 PM
  #619
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Signing an incredibly injury prone player with a history like Souray's to a 3 year 35+ worth $10M contract is a very risky move. I don't see why people shouldn't be *****ing about the signing, it's almost certainly going to hurt us by the 3rd year of the deal, if not sooner.

If somebody made a post on this forum on June 30th saying that they wanted to sign Souray to this exact deal they would have been crucified.

I do like the look of the defense going into the season. But the term, price and NMC involved in this deal make it a bad signing.
This is exactly where I'm coming from. One year of Souray would have been AWESOME. Two years of Souray would have been managable, but three years is borderlined stupid.

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10-22-2012, 05:46 PM
  #620
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By the way, I am not a "Murray hater", I'll give him credit where credit is do. I have gone on record saying that the Allen signing is quite possibly the best FA signing that Murray has made to this point with the Ducks. It fit the need for the team perfectly. I liked the fact we got Souray, I HATE the fact we're stuck with him for three years.

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10-22-2012, 06:02 PM
  #621
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I seem to have a love/hate relationship with a lot of Murray's decisions. Either I like it, or I loathe it. There doesn't seem to be a whole lot of middleground.

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10-22-2012, 06:12 PM
  #622
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I seem to have a love/hate relationship with a lot of Murray's decisions. Either I like it, or I loathe it. There doesn't seem to be a whole lot of middleground.
This is true.

The only BM decision that I haven't hated or loved that I can think of is the Winnik signing. I didn't think it was anything spectacular like getting a 2C or something, but I didn't hate the fact that we added size and defense to our bottom six.

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10-22-2012, 07:04 PM
  #623
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I completely agree.

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10-22-2012, 07:10 PM
  #624
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Is it possible to move rehashed Souray discussion to appropriate thread?

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10-22-2012, 08:00 PM
  #625
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question for those who have seen sami a bit live...as far as a OFD goes, is he more of a fowler? or a karlsson?....im not trying to compair the kid im more so talking about a) makes those little (almost go unnoticed) play's to create offense (cerebral) or b) has raw ability that can just take over and make it happen (highly skilled)? or a combination?....i ask because ive seen very little of him in games, and everything esle has been highlights....im really excited to see him in a ducks uni (like most of ducks fans)....thanks

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