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Habs say no to Dagenais

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Old
10-28-2004, 11:33 PM
  #1
Des Louise
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Habs say no to Dagenais

I just read an article in the doubtful Journal de Montréal. Bertrand Raymond says that Dagenais asked management to play in Hamilton but they told him all the spots were taken and that they were developing their youngsters.

Even though I really dislike him as a player you gotta feel a tiny bit bad for bubble guys like him. The NHLPA sure isn't doing those guys any good.

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10-28-2004, 11:41 PM
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Actually, I feel a little bit bad about that. I'm happy he's not in Hamilton but well, he can still develope well in the Caravane :lol

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10-29-2004, 12:12 AM
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Good. Goes to show you we aren`t like the Maple Leafs.

Also prooves that the Caravane isn`t exactly `competitive`hockey...

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10-29-2004, 03:06 AM
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Thank goodness. Ward already takes some quality ice from our prospects - and one spot from guys like Lambert and Urquhart, who really need that.

I wonder why Dagenais or his agent doesnt try Europe? Maybe hes worried about their skating workouts a bit too much - or thinks he develops more by eating burgers from his sponsor.

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10-29-2004, 07:04 AM
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So, Pierre must ask the question, what is the NHLPA doing for him ?

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10-29-2004, 07:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by espion
Good. Goes to show you we aren`t like the Maple Leafs.
What?

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10-29-2004, 10:13 AM
  #7
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Yes you heard him.

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10-29-2004, 10:23 AM
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Why couldn't Dagenais sign a contract with another AHL club. I mean his only AHL option isn't Hamilton...right????

Totally understand why habs management doesn't want him to take a prospects spot in Hamilton, wonder if it would be different if Dallas didn't give Hamilton any players.

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10-29-2004, 10:32 AM
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It say long about his future in the organization! Will be easily replaced in the near future by one of Higgins, Hossa, Perezhogin, Kostitsyn..

Ribs should feel alot worry too... Plekanec could become his worst nightmare!


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Old
10-29-2004, 01:23 PM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NewHabsArea
It say long about his future in the organization! Will be easily replaced in the near future by one of Higgins, Hossa, Perezhogin, Kostitsyn..

Ribs should feel alot worry too... Plekanec could become his worst nightmare!
Yeah. Their decisions not to look for job elsewhere (Europe) like over 200 other NHLers have done, might become costly career choise. While Dagenais and Ribeiro play couple charity games and have fun at home, other young players in are working hard, playing real games, to keep their game legs on and even improve.

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10-29-2004, 01:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marksman2
Yeah. Their decisions not to look for job elsewhere (Europe) like over 200 other NHLers have done, might become costly career choise. While Dagenais and Ribeiro play couple charity games and have fun at home, other young players in are working hard, playing real games, to keep their game legs on and even improve.
I understand what you are saying but it's not as easy as it sounds. Unless I am mistaken, I think Ribeiro is about to become a father soon.

I wouldn't leave my wife under those circumstances either. Other players just don't feel like getting away from their family or bringing all of them along in a totally different cultural environment.

It's a huge tradeoff for every NHLer with a family. The condidtions in the NHL (frequent travel, trade possibilities) are difficult enough as they are. This season can become a nightmare. There's a possibility the WHOLE season will be lost but nobody knows for sure.

Just imagine: Honey, let's go to Russia, a place we don't know. For how long? I have no idea. Could be the whole year or we could be back soon.

The kids need an education, some wives have careers. It's really not easy. For the singles, it's an easier decision.

Many Europeans have an advantage as they are going back home so they know in part what to expect too.

I'm not crying for the players or anything, though. Just explaining it's not that easy. Plus you have to find the team that will take you. There are certain countries where I would probably accept and there are countries I wouldn't go unless I had a gun to my head (I won't name any, out of respect).

I do agree that playing in the Caravan is laughable and won't get them anywhere but for some of these guys, I guess it's the best they can find.

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10-29-2004, 02:16 PM
  #12
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I guess the good news is that management is committed to developing its youth in Hamilton and doesn't want too many of the young prospects to be denied a chance of some good AHL experience because of defecting NHL'ers looking for a place to play. I have no problem with some of the younger guys like Komo and Hainsey who are either just breaking through or just about to, as that provides really good leadership and mentoring to the younger guys who are a few stages away still or just starting their pro career (and we have a lot of those).

As for Dags' situation, I guess you have to look at a good chunk of the team who have made the sacrifice and are playing overseas to keep their game at a competitive level. Dags has to be aware that all his potential competitors for that 2nd line spot are all playing competitive hockey right now, either in Hamilton or in Europe somewhere. What's your next move, big Pierre?

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10-29-2004, 02:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leachmeister2000
Yes you heard him.
Yes, I just don't know what situation he's refering to. When did the Leafs send a 27 year old forward to St. John's?

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10-29-2004, 03:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafaholix
Yes, I just don't know what situation he's refering to. When did the Leafs send a 27 year old forward to St. John's?
Ling Perrott Moro MacDonald and Wilm are all older than Dagenais is. Somehow those guys got there and its a little more than Bulldogs have. I may be taking wild guess but this could be what he is refering - either he thinks Leafs management doesnt give their prospects enough room or is just happy Canadiens have plenty there.

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10-29-2004, 05:06 PM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marksman2
Ling Perrott Moro MacDonald and Wilm are all older than Dagenais is. Somehow those guys got there and its a little more than Bulldogs have. I may be taking wild guess but this could be what he is refering - either he thinks Leafs management doesnt give their prospects enough room or is just happy Canadiens have plenty there.
All but one of those guys have been career minor leaguers so far, I fail to see the similarity between sending minor leaguers to your AHL affiliate when it's mandatory to dress 5 veterans on any given night and sending a guy who played 60+ games in the NHL last season.

Can you fill me in, because I think this is just another unreasonable jab at the Leafs.

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10-29-2004, 11:17 PM
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Maple Leafs: Win now, veterans, veterans, veterans, who cares about having 1st round draft picks, let's have the oldest team in the NHL, who cares if our AHL team is the worst in the league, bench your top rookie (Stajan) in the playoffs for a veteran who is on his last leg.

Canadiens: Win now, win tomorrow, give the kids a chance, build through the draft, be (somewhat) financialy responsible, develop your own prospects, treasure your first round picks, give a chance to your youth to have proper roles in the AHL and develop, let your top rookie (Ryder) keep his role during the playoffs so he can gain experience.

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10-29-2004, 11:24 PM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by espion
Maple Leafs: Win now, veterans, veterans, veterans, who cares about having 1st round draft picks, let's have the oldest team in the NHL, who cares if our AHL team is the worst in the league, bench your top rookie (Stajan) in the playoffs for a veteran who is on his last leg.

Canadiens: Win now, win tomorrow, give the kids a chance, build through the draft, be (somewhat) financialy responsible, develop your own prospects, treasure your first round picks, give a chance to your youth to have proper roles in the AHL and develop, let your top rookie (Ryder) keep his role during the playoffs so he can gain experience.
What in the world are you talking about?

We're discussing the AHL, not the NHL.

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10-29-2004, 11:30 PM
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafaholix
What in the world are you talking about?

We're discussing the AHL, not the NHL.
My initial comment meant the Habs mgt have their heads srewed on straight.

I am talking about Maple Leaf philosophy vs Canadiens philosophy. You can talk about whatever you want.

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10-29-2004, 11:38 PM
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by espion
My initial comment meant the Habs mgt have their heads srewed on straight.

I am talking about Maple Leaf philosophy vs Canadiens philosophy. You can talk about whatever you want.
So why'd you pm me, telling me I have been "served"?It was obviously directed at me, but had absolutely nothing to do with the actual topic in which I was discussing.

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10-29-2004, 11:48 PM
  #20
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Dagenais=Can't skate,pass or check and we certainly don't need him taking up a young guy's spot in Hamilton.

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10-29-2004, 11:57 PM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Howie Morenz
Dagenais=Can't skate,pass or check and we certainly don't need him taking up a young guy's spot in Hamilton.
You are right. Dags don't deserves to play there...and Dagenais will lose his NHL spot just because of the lock-out. It's sad for him.

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10-30-2004, 12:07 AM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafaholix
Yes, I just don't know what situation he's refering to.
(...)
All but one of those guys have been career minor leaguers so far, I fail to see the similarity between sending minor leaguers to your AHL affiliate when it's mandatory to dress 5 veterans on any given night and sending a guy who played 60+ games in the NHL last season.

Can you fill me in, because I think this is just another unreasonable jab at the Leafs.
You kept asking what I was reffering to. I elaborated on my post. Saying that it was a good move for the Dogs to say no to Dags... to keep the priority on developping prospects. That is something the Leafs fail to do. And I am thankfull we are not like the Leafs in that sense.

I PMed you to let you know I had clarified what I meant in the first post as you asked... making you aware the answer was there.

When I said "served" I meant I answered to your demand. Don'ttake things so personally.

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Old
10-30-2004, 12:19 AM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by espion
You kept asking what I was reffering to. I elaborated on my post. Saying that it was a good move for the Dogs to say no to Dags... to keep the priority on developping prospects. That is something the Leafs fail to do. And I am thankfull we are not like the Leafs in that sense.

I PMed you to let you know I had clarified what I meant in the first post as you asked... making you aware the answer was there.

When I said "served" I meant I answered to your demand. Don'ttake things so personally.
Yes, but Dagenais wouldn't take the place of a younger player. He'd be playing in place of another veteran. I'm not really up-to-date on the AHL rules, but I believe you can have 6 vets on the team and 5 must dress on any given night.

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10-30-2004, 12:48 AM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafaholix
Yes, but Dagenais wouldn't take the place of a younger player. He'd be playing in place of another veteran. I'm not really up-to-date on the AHL rules, but I believe you can have 6 vets on the team and 5 must dress on any given night.
No No No. I am a coach, trust me on this. As a coach you take the very best players available to you to make the best possible lines for the very next game.

If Dagenais would be added to the team, he would not take a veteran's spot. He would take the spot of the worst foraward in the lineup (regardless of age) because Dags is better than himin the present. So he would likely take Lambert's (20 years old) spot. Dags would be put on 2nd or 3rd line LW. a guy like Milroy (21 years old) would get bumped down to lower line duties and less ice time.

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10-30-2004, 12:53 AM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by espion
No No No. I am a coach, trust me on this. As a coach you take the very best players available to you to make the best possible lines for the very next game.

If Dagenais would be added to the team, he would not take a veteran's spot. He would take the spot of the worst foraward in the lineup (regardless of age) because Dags is better than himin the present. So he would likely take Lambert's (20 years old) spot. Dags would be put on 2nd or 3rd line LW. a guy like Milroy (21 years old) would get bumped down to lower line duties and less ice time.
I'm talking about the actual AHL rules.

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