HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Montreal Canadiens
Notices

TSN 990: As per a Habs executive they are NOT re-building

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
02-17-2012, 11:02 AM
  #101
Kjell Dahlin
Registered User
 
Kjell Dahlin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Québec, Québec
Posts: 1,998
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
... not sure why not sure...

(...)
  • Speed
  • Production
  • Role model (as I mentioned: he is a Darche with talent!)
  • Reasonable cap hit
  • Power forward

Cole is the perfect veteran; why move him out? Add a tough and experienced D who can eat a lot of even strength minutes to a healthy Canadiens roster and they are a top tier team.

Cole is a low maintenance, productive veteran; imo he is a keeper.

Kjell Dahlin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-17-2012, 11:02 AM
  #102
gusfring
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 6,200
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Once again you are way out in left field.

What would a "smart" front office do? Trade price Subban Pacioretty Emelin Gorges Plekanec DD Diaz weber?

You rebuild when your core is 30+ and the team sucks(see Calgary) or when you have had no success with at all with it.
So Calgary "sucks"? We must really suck then right?

This organization needs to learn to unload assets for picks and prospects when those assets have expiring contracts and are unlikely to return. ie Souray.

gusfring is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-17-2012, 11:03 AM
  #103
Bullsmith
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 4,112
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
... not sure why not sure...

You have to trade quality to get quality. We don't have to deal away every single vet and tank for years man but dealing away a Pleks or a Cole or some other vet actually does make sense if we're getting building blocks back.

I know that's a hard concept to get your head around but it makes sense to do this when you aren't in a position to win. We have made one true rebuilding move in recent memory and that was Rivet for Gorges and a 1st (who turned into Paccioretti.) We need to try to get more picks for Timmins to work with. The higher the better obviously but let's stop making sideways moves and short gap type trades.

I don't see him helping us to win a cup and that's all I care about. If we were contenders then there's no way I'd want to move him but we're not. He's an older player and if we could get a great return then yes absolutely we should trade him.

Don't worry... we won't.
I agree with you about Cole completely. The guy's 33 and playing outstanding hockey. He'd be invaluable to any really competitive team looking for playoff success (5 on 5 scorer, cup ring, size, speed, everything a team like LA is looking for). But we're not close to competitive in terms of a cup, so trading him while his value is probably the highest it's ever been seems like a wise, forward-thinking move. Not one PG will make, though.

I must say I find the blind homerism of those who think we're a couple of middline UFA singings away from being a cup contender to be hilarious. It's like a Leafs board around here. We're bottom 5 in the NHL today. No amount of kool aid drinking will make this team a cup contender without serious improvement. We are not close to the cup, we're close to the cellar.

Bullsmith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-17-2012, 11:03 AM
  #104
WhiskeySeven
Enlarged Member
 
WhiskeySeven's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 13,676
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
I heard the same argument back when I said we should trade Koivu...

We have some of the pieces but not all the pieces to contend. And I believe we could accelerate the process by dealing some vets for prospects and picks that could become those missing pieces. Nothing wrong with getting younger and with the players we have now we probably won't tank ala Edmonton anyway so I agree with most of your post.
You're insane and obviously have no idea how the NHL works. No team in the league has done that.

A team with a bunch of fresh rookies isn't going to win anything, ever. This isn't the mid-90s Ajax.

WhiskeySeven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-17-2012, 11:04 AM
  #105
gillyguzzler
Registered User
 
gillyguzzler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,746
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs 4 Life View Post
That's not what he said, he said if someone came calling and the return would be amazing then he would consider moving him. He didn't say to trade him just because he was having a career year and we should get a 1st rounder back. He said he would listen and I agree with him on that aspect of managing, no matter the player you should always be listening, no such thing as untouchables....
He grunted that the Habs should trade him because they will regret his contract in years 3 or 4. I don't know anything about "a career year and a 1st rounder" - his focus was on the contract.

gillyguzzler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-17-2012, 11:06 AM
  #106
Unagi
Registered User
 
Unagi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Austria
Country: Austria
Posts: 2,386
vCash: 500
If I were a GM I wouldn't want to tell the Habs Fans that I was rebuilding

I think the Habs habe a lot of good assets. IMO they will not make the playoffs this season, but that could be a good thing. They might get a lottery pick and therefore a Top prospect in this years draft.
Once they rid themselves of Gomez, they will habe 7.3 mil in cap open an can sign a 1st line center.

Unagi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-17-2012, 11:07 AM
  #107
Lafleurs Guy
Registered User
 
Lafleurs Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 20,184
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Once again you are way out in left field.
Really? Strange... I've been saying that we're a bubble team for years and I've been right most of the time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
What would a "smart" front office do? Trade price Subban Pacioretty Emelin Gorges Plekanec DD Diaz weber?
WTF are you talking about man?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
You rebuild when your core is 30+ and the team sucks(see Calgary) or when you have had no success with at all with it.
And what success have we had?

Lafleurs Guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-17-2012, 11:08 AM
  #108
Habs 4 Life
No Excuses
 
Habs 4 Life's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Montreal
Country: Italy
Posts: 32,865
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Senshi View Post
If I were a GM I wouldn't want to tell the Habs Fans that I was rebuilding

I think the Habs habe a lot of good assets. IMO they will not make the playoffs this season, but that could be a good thing. They might get a lottery pick and therefore a Top prospect in this years draft.
Once they rid themselves of Gomez, they will habe 7.3 mil in cap open an can sign a 1st line center.
There is no # 1 center available on July 1st, unless you qualify Grabovksi as that type of player cause I certainly don't.

Habs 4 Life is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-17-2012, 11:09 AM
  #109
Em Ancien
Sexy 2nd Rounder
 
Em Ancien's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Mount Real Life
Posts: 8,821
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
You're insane and obviously have no idea how the NHL works. No team in the league has done that.

A team with a bunch of fresh rookies isn't going to win anything, ever. This isn't the mid-90s Ajax.
I think his idea is to get elite talent, then surround it.

Usually that's how you win Cups. You don't just build a bubble team and hope it turns into a contender.

Em Ancien is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-17-2012, 11:11 AM
  #110
gillyguzzler
Registered User
 
gillyguzzler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,746
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs 4 Life View Post
There is no # 1 center available on July 1st, unless you qualify Grabovksi as that type of player cause I certainly don't.
There's really not too much available July 1st that is attractive or that would want to come to the circus. There will be some heavy overpayment of NHL players in early July.

gillyguzzler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-17-2012, 11:12 AM
  #111
Bullsmith
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 4,112
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
You're insane and obviously have no idea how the NHL works. No team in the league has done that.

A team with a bunch of fresh rookies isn't going to win anything, ever. This isn't the mid-90s Ajax.
Excuse me? How did the Blackhawks become a cup winner, for example, if not on the backs of their incredible collection of young players (since sadly dissipated due to the cap)? Nobody's saying you sell all the vets, field a team of rookies and expect to win immediately. That's a straw man and a pretty feeble one. People who know a modicum about hockey (as you clearly claim to do) will quickly acknowledge that a team that's 5th last in the league needs to improve significantly to contend for a cup. But sure, we're on the road to cup #25, just stay the course. Brilliant understanding of how to win in the NHL you got there.

Bullsmith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-17-2012, 11:12 AM
  #112
Habs 4 Life
No Excuses
 
Habs 4 Life's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Montreal
Country: Italy
Posts: 32,865
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by gillyguzzler View Post
There's really not too much available July 1st that is attractive or that would want to come to the circus. There will be some heavy overpayment of NHL players in early July.
agreed

Suter, Parise and Semin are the biggest names and I doubt either will want to play here. I'd personally go after Ryan Suter and offer him a really long term deal

Habs 4 Life is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-17-2012, 11:14 AM
  #113
Lafleurs Guy
Registered User
 
Lafleurs Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 20,184
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kjell Dahlin View Post
  • Speed
  • Production
  • Role model (as I mentioned: he is a Darche with talent!)
  • Reasonable cap hit
  • Power forward

Cole is the perfect veteran;
You're absolutely right. That's why his value will be sky high right now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kjell Dahlin View Post
why move him out? Add a tough and experienced D who can eat a lot of even strength minutes to a healthy Canadiens roster and they are a top tier team.

Cole is a low maintenance, productive veteran; imo he is a keeper.
- We're not good enough to win right now and probably not anytime soon
- He's older and won't win a cup with us
- Career year. Value is high right now (when was the last time we sold high? Sam Pollock days?)
- Teams would kill to have him for a playoff stretch and we'd dump his salary
- He is going to decline over the next few seasons anyway
- If the return isn't great... don't do it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bullsmith View Post
I agree with you about Cole completely. The guy's 33 and playing outstanding hockey. He'd be invaluable to any really competitive team looking for playoff success (5 on 5 scorer, cup ring, size, speed, everything a team like LA is looking for). But we're not close to competitive in terms of a cup, so trading him while his value is probably the highest it's ever been seems like a wise, forward-thinking move. Not one PG will make, though.

I must say I find the blind homerism of those who think we're a couple of middline UFA singings away from being a cup contender to be hilarious. It's like a Leafs board around here. We're bottom 5 in the NHL today. No amount of kool aid drinking will make this team a cup contender without serious improvement. We are not close to the cup, we're close to the cellar.
The Leaf boards have been very similar to ours over the years. "We're just one player away"... I hear that all the time. We're no different. People can't look at their team objectively and that's why we always believe we're better than we actually are.
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
You're insane and obviously have no idea how the NHL works. No team in the league has done that.
Why do you always try to resort to this silly argument? It's not true and even if it was it doesn't make it a bad idea.
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
A team with a bunch of fresh rookies isn't going to win anything, ever. This isn't the mid-90s Ajax.
A team with a bunch of fresh rookies might win something down the road. And our club won't be a bunch of fresh rookies if we deal away Cole or Pleks or both.

Lafleurs Guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-17-2012, 11:15 AM
  #114
WhiskeySeven
Enlarged Member
 
WhiskeySeven's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 13,676
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Em Ancien View Post
I think his idea is to get elite talent, then surround it.

Usually that's how you win Cups. You don't just build a bubble team and hope it turns into a contender.
Trust me, I get it. We all want that.

The problem isn't the end, every team in the league wants to get elite talent, the problem is the means.

And blowing it up every time there's a hiccup season is ridiculous. Not a single team in the league does that, because it is insane. Erik Cole is a tremendous player and while he isn't an elite talent, he's a great contributor and is one of the few players in the NHL who is absolutely worth his contract. You keep those players, stanley cup contender or not.

Especially less than a ****ing season into his FIRST YEAR.

Lunacy.

WhiskeySeven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-17-2012, 11:19 AM
  #115
PATCHESx67
Registered User
 
PATCHESx67's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: West Island MTL
Country: Portugal
Posts: 1,383
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs Junkie View Post
Don't get me wrong I think he's a #2 center as well, but if you get rid of him we don't have a player that can play that role and would be a sideways move. Find me a 2nd line center that can do what he does.
Eller will become a great 2nd line center in not too long,puck possesion,size,shot,defensive play hes great and the more i see him play the more im happy we picked him up dont get me wrong obviously Lars cant replace Tomas right now but i see the habs trading him in a year maybe 2

PATCHESx67 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-17-2012, 11:20 AM
  #116
Lafleurs Guy
Registered User
 
Lafleurs Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 20,184
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
Trust me, I get it. We all want that.

The problem isn't the end, every team in the league wants to get elite talent, the problem is the means.

And blowing it up every time there's a hiccup season is ridiculous. Not a single team in the league does that, because it is insane. Erik Cole is a tremendous player and while he isn't an elite talent, he's a great contributor and is one of the few players in the NHL who is absolutely worth his contract. You keep those players, stanley cup contender or not.

Especially less than a ****ing season into his FIRST YEAR.
Every time? Are you out of your freakin' mind? Seriously WTH is wrong with you? We've NEVER rebuilt. We've made a succession of sideways moves and tweaked a bubble lineup for years. That's all we EVER do.

You're talking like this is some knee jerk reaction I'm having to this season. I've been saying this for YEARS. And for YEARS now I've been right. So please don't come here and try to pretend like this is some kind of off the cuff reaction to a bad season.
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
Lunacy.
Lunacy is doing things the same way over and over and expecting different results.

Stop being a puppet and open your eyes.

There are very good reasons to deal away Cole right now. It's not a bad idea by any stretch to do this. The key is getting a good return. Nobody is suggesting that he sucks or we should dump him but not shopping him when we're sitting here competing for last place is the very definition of lunacy.

Lafleurs Guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-17-2012, 11:23 AM
  #117
Beakermania*
 
Beakermania*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Kingston or Hamilton
Country: Canada
Posts: 17,965
vCash: 500
Team has enough problems attracting UFAs without trading away an Erik Cole who came here for 4 years because he legitimately wanted to play in Montreal.

You'd be forcing your GM to overpay for an future UFA by more than we already have to due to the taxes and circus atmosphere (media/fan pressure).

Its stupid to treat a UFA you just signed this way.

These aren't just pieces you move around on NHL 12 because they are a bunch of pixels on a screen. These are human beings and the way you treat them will influence the organizations reputation in signing other UFAs in future years.

Beakermania* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-17-2012, 11:24 AM
  #118
Em Ancien
Sexy 2nd Rounder
 
Em Ancien's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Mount Real Life
Posts: 8,821
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
Trust me, I get it. We all want that.

The problem isn't the end, every team in the league wants to get elite talent, the problem is the means.

And blowing it up every time there's a hiccup season is ridiculous. Not a single team in the league does that, because it is insane. Erik Cole is a tremendous player and while he isn't an elite talent, he's a great contributor and is one of the few players in the NHL who is absolutely worth his contract. You keep those players, stanley cup contender or not.

Especially less than a ****ing season into his FIRST YEAR.

Lunacy.
Oh, truely I don't want him traded.

But our vet group isn't getting it done and you have to wonder that when you'll be willing to trade him, will there be much to trade him for?

Obviously, making a run at the playoffs as soon as next year would require him, but if we fail big time again and he starts slowing down, looking back, you're going to bite your lip at what could have been a good shot in the arm for the organization's future.

Look at Gionta, or Gomez last year (I won't mention this year). Both those guys are showing significant regression of their skill level. I don't think we stand a chance at getting much out of them, and we'll have to live with bad deals from this point out (I guess in Gomez's case, with the cap penalty from buyout/re-entry waivers).

I mean, it doesn't look like a good idea to trade Cole if you want to fight hard next year, but the organization should be looking at the greater picture, and they're the ones that should make the best move.

Em Ancien is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-17-2012, 11:24 AM
  #119
windycity
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Well duh
Posts: 3,117
vCash: 500
I like Cole alot but I'd move him if we get some really really good assets in return - otherwise forget it. But that's really what the argument boils down to

windycity is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-17-2012, 11:25 AM
  #120
gillyguzzler
Registered User
 
gillyguzzler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,746
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs 4 Life View Post
agreed

Suter, Parise and Semin are the biggest names and I doubt either will want to play here. I'd personally go after Ryan Suter and offer him a really long term deal
I've been a Habs fan for over 35 years and I'm not sure I'd want my son to be drafted by the Habs with the current state of affairs. Hopefully, things turn around and they become an attractive destination for UFAs. It won't be this summer though.

I think they should lure Mike Babcock and Kenny Holland away from Detroit. Or maybe Shero and Bylsma from Pittsburgh. Heck, I'd even welcome Boucher and Yzerman from TB. I know the Bolts have struggled also but it hasn't been the zoo Montreal and PG have been this year.

gillyguzzler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-17-2012, 11:27 AM
  #121
PunkinDrublic*
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Sutton,Qc-Sudbury,On
Posts: 8,282
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by windycity View Post
I like Cole alot but I'd move him if we get some really really good assets in return - otherwise forget it. But that's really what the argument boils down to
There is NO arguement ! Marinaro and you are the only two people who would trade Cole.

PunkinDrublic* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-17-2012, 11:29 AM
  #122
PunkinDrublic*
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Sutton,Qc-Sudbury,On
Posts: 8,282
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by gillyguzzler View Post
I've been a Habs fan for over 35 years and I'm not sure I'd want my son to be drafted by the Habs with the current state of affairs. Hopefully, things turn around and they become an attractive destination for UFAs. It won't be this summer though.

I think they should lure Mike Babcock and Kenny Holland away from Detroit. Or maybe Shero and Bylsma from Pittsburgh. Heck, I'd even welcome Boucher and Yzerman from TB. I know the Bolts have struggled also but it hasn't been the zoo Montreal and PG have been this year.
You are from Ontario, we don't want your son

But i can GAURANTEE you, if my sons were drafted by the Habs it would be one ****in party here !!!!!!!!!!! It's our dream to play for the Habs !!!!!!

PunkinDrublic* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-17-2012, 11:35 AM
  #123
swimmer77
What's an ROW?
 
swimmer77's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: in water
Country: Czech_ Republic
Posts: 3,369
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Commandant View Post
Team has enough problems attracting UFAs without trading away an Erik Cole who came here for 4 years because he legitimately wanted to play in Montreal.

You'd be forcing your GM to overpay for an future UFA by more than we already have to due to the taxes and circus atmosphere (media/fan pressure).

Its stupid to treat a UFA you just signed this way.

These aren't just pieces you move around on NHL 12 because they are a bunch of pixels on a screen. These are human beings and the way you treat them will influence the organizations reputation in signing other UFAs in future years.
Rutherford

v
v
v
v
v
v

Kaberle

But I think you are right and Cole has tried everything possible to make this team successful. I was actually getting on board the "trade Cole" wagon until I read your post. Now I'm back to weighing the options there again.

swimmer77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-17-2012, 11:36 AM
  #124
WhiskeySeven
Enlarged Member
 
WhiskeySeven's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 13,676
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Every time? Are you out of your freakin' mind? Seriously WTH is wrong with you? We've NEVER rebuilt. We've made a succession of sideways moves and tweaked a bubble lineup for years. That's all we EVER do.
You see sideways moves. I see organizational restructuring.

The braintrust has always said they want sustainable success and if you look at Washington, a traditional tank-nation example, you could see the crumbling of a non-empire. I LOVE the NJD/DET model and we're so fkn close to getting it. Our franchise player is finally entering his prime, we're attracting prime UFAs and coaching talent (Cunny and Boucher were both highly touted), we're drafting better than ever and attracting talent from overseas (Diaz, Emelin).

This kind of evolution takes tons of time and patience. Gainey had it, his NHL moves were rather mediocre but his organizational moves were ace. Gauthier is just continuing that and he's doing an even better job.

No one wants to not win the cup, but you see numbers in the standing column when we were in fact a goal from beating the Bruins. Games are played on ice and we're better on the ice than ever before. That's sustainable success, and we're on our way.

WhiskeySeven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-17-2012, 11:37 AM
  #125
Habs 4 Life
No Excuses
 
Habs 4 Life's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Montreal
Country: Italy
Posts: 32,865
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by AHMB Prez View Post
You are from Ontario, we don't want your son

But i can GAURANTEE you, if my sons were drafted by the Habs it would be one ****in party here !!!!!!!!!!! It's our dream to play for the Habs !!!!!!
Wouldn't mind my kid playing for LA, Tampa or other cities that I can leave the winter here

Habs 4 Life is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:00 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.