And it isn't even like these incidents happen in blood feud/donnybrook type games, either.
It's always
-hockey being played, nothing weird going on
-whelp, looks like there's 1:05 left in the second period, Nazarov told me I need to beat ass before the third. Time to ambush that 5'5 guy then sucker the goalie on the way to the box.
Wait Nazarov is the coach for Vityaz? i'm not familliar with their coaching staff just that they have mirasty and tarnasky.. did anyone NOT expect this from nazarov?
I think its kinda funny people are so up in arms about this. Its obviously their jobs to start and finish fights. If you don't like it.. you could always.. you know.. drop the gloves and show some kind of balls. Thats embarassing right there, and shows you how russian/eastern european hockey is.
I would absolutely resort to a cross check or baseball swing with my stick at their heads if someone came at me in the situation (well in reality I'd fight, but in the given scenario). What a group of clowns.
Thats what I fail to understand if some 220 lbs gorilla is trying to cheapshot me you can be sure I'd be swinging my stick at him its as you accurately pointed out self safety.
It really upsets me, I find it dsigusting and I lose respect for Jon Mirasty, one of my favourite fighters of all time, everytime this talk comes up. They need to but an end to this, or somebody will die. NOT KIDDING AROUND
ITT: people who didn't watch the game. I do not support the usual thuggery from Vityaz, so I decided to check out this game when I saw 21, 33, 47, and 51 were being dressed. Atlant was scrumming and being tough with Vityaz's skill guys the whole game. They were laughing, talking, and obviously joking for most the game, I'm sure 100% at the expense of Vityaz. Any intelligent team would know to go in, win, and shut up. They didn't.
As far as the game goes, Brennan was furious on the forecheck, finishing checks legally and effectively. The 21-47-51 line played relatively well, dump and chase, and did nothing other than take minor penalties for most the game. Once Atlant went up 4-1, that was it. I hate Vityaz like the rest of you, but Atlant had it coming in a sense. 21, 33, 47, and 51 have played in many games this year with few events like this. In fact, Mirasty and Tarnasky both have over 30 GP this season. Keep talking, then turtling, then blaming the Canadians. Sounds like a plan.
What a crock of ****. Trash talk has always...and will always be a part of hockey. Assault isn't.
Ohhh they beat us and made fun of us..well, just cause to viciously assault them. Let's do this~
I think its kinda funny people are so up in arms about this. Its obviously their jobs to start and finish fights. If you don't like it.. you could always.. you know.. drop the gloves and show some kind of balls. Thats embarassing right there, and shows you how russian/eastern european hockey is.
What an unbelievably ignorant post. It's not their "jobs" to attack people. Those aren't fights, those are assaults. Calling that "fights" is ridiculous in itself. That's not their jobs. That's the type of crap that likely gets the club they are playing for thrown out of the league, and thank goodness for that with such displays.
Why would those Russian kids and/or skilled players need to prove their "balls" to you or anyone by trying to fight some boneheads that spent as much time of their life fighting and sitting for that, while those others learned to play a skill game? They don't stand a chance against those goons, and they don't have to; they'd simply give them a chance and a legitimation to severely hurt them even more. That's what those "tough guys" would love, and thank goodness they won't get that. They get beat easily on the scoreboard. There's no honour, no pride in what those thugs displayed there. They are the ones embarrassing themselves and the game of hockey there. If you don't see that, you have a problem.
I love fighting in hockey. This has nothing to do with figthing. This has nothing to do with hockey. I love Canadian/American hockey a lot more than the Eastern European style of play, but if you don't think that's disgusting, your connection to the actual game has been lost along the way.
Thats what I fail to understand if some 220 lbs gorilla is trying to cheapshot me you can be sure I'd be swinging my stick at him its as you accurately pointed out self safety.
If these things keep happening, that's what it's going to come down to. But generally, over a lifetime, hockey players learn to not use their sticks that way. Not even jokingly. The option of using the hockey stick in such a way doesn't really come up in your head on the ice, for all I know, even though it would be incredibly obvious for someone watching. When guys start going into games against those guys just waiting for them to assault you, that may change, and based on those events it's increasingly hard to blame anyone anymore, really.
There is no doubt that these are assaults on the ice, but in North America your teammates on the ice wouldn't let you get beaten to a pulp right in front of them.
At the very least, they would restrain the attacker.
Watching Kovalev and the other players just stand there was bizarre.
There is no doubt that these are assaults on the ice, but in North America your teammates on the ice wouldn't let you get beaten to a pulp right in front of them.
At the very least, they would restrain the attacker.
Watching Kovalev and the other players just stand there was bizarre.
It's not exactly a situation you have in North America, either, for one skill line to handle three or more goons out there at the same time. They are just waiting for someone to step in while they are pounding away on players down on the ice to get to the next ones. That said, there's no doubt that the reaction would be different in NA. Nobody's debating that the style of play is a very different. Fighting isn't a part of it to nearly the same degree. No problem with anyone disliking that about the Eastern European style of hockey, but it would be incredibly misplaced to use that to put blame on the victims of those pathetic attacks.
There is no doubt that these are assaults on the ice, but in North America your teammates on the ice wouldn't let you get beaten to a pulp right in front of them.
At the very least, they would restrain the attacker.
Watching Kovalev and the other players just stand there was bizarre.
weird how Zherdev was the only one that attempted to do anything
I thought those guys from Vityaz were suspended for the year?
Those guys should be ashamed of themselves. They're totally breaking the code.
I have my (conspiracy) theory that Vityaz exist to give goons jobs in Russia. Before them, russian hockey was nearly goon-free. Nowe teams needs to sign goons just to avoid beatdown. And indeed, as far as I know (don't follow KHL closely), it works- more gons found a job in KHL.
I think its kinda funny people are so up in arms about this. Its obviously their jobs to start and finish fights. If you don't like it.. you could always.. you know.. drop the gloves and show some kind of balls. Thats embarassing right there, and shows you how russian/eastern european hockey is.
What are you even talking about? You call that fighting? I'm doubting you have any background in fighting what-so-ever if you think some guy, who didn't grow up in a culture of players brawling, is going to prove his balls by getting into a scrap with some meat-head who doesn't bother doing anything else.
Unless something egregious happens on the ice in NA, goons don't typically go after skilled players on the ice. And smack talking is not egregious unless you're a 14 year old girl.
Last edited by SlingshotVv: 02-24-2012 at 03:16 AM.
What an unbelievably ignorant post. It's not their "jobs" to attack people. Those aren't fights, those are assaults. Calling that "fights" is ridiculous in itself. That's not their jobs. That's the type of crap that likely gets the club they are playing for thrown out of the league, and thank goodness for that with such displays.
Why would those Russian kids and/or skilled players need to prove their "balls" to you or anyone by trying to fight some boneheads that spent as much time of their life fighting and sitting for that, while those others learned to play a skill game? They don't stand a chance against those goons, and they don't have to; they'd simply give them a chance and a legitimation to severely hurt them even more. That's what those "tough guys" would love, and thank goodness they won't get that. They get beat easily on the scoreboard. There's no honour, no pride in what those thugs displayed there. They are the ones embarrassing themselves and the game of hockey there. If you don't see that, you have a problem.
I love fighting in hockey. This has nothing to do with figthing. This has nothing to do with hockey. I love Canadian/American hockey a lot more than the Eastern European style of play, but if you don't think that's disgusting, your connection to the actual game has been lost along the way.
Do me a favor... become a politician you'd be great at it. Social outrage over a incident on the ice and you call it assault. Not saying what they did had any honor but when guys are just throwing punches at you at what point do you try to fight back? This is why i don't want many eastern europeans on the bruins.. I don't like the fact that they just turtle... **** krejci would at least try to tie someone up. Tarnasky and mirasty and brennan are goons.. thats their jobs. I can guarentee you that a coach wanted them to start some **** especially down by 3 goals. I guarentee you their owner got them over there because I'm sure the fighting part of the game would boost some of their home games. If you don't think that.. then I really have nothing else to say to you. I think its funny around here how people have to protect the european players by saying they only play "a skilled game" like they are just above all this fighting in hockey. They can tie up or drop the gloves like anyone else. Its not saying or asking much.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SlingshotVv
What are you even talking about? You call that fighting? I'm doubting you have any background in fighting what-so-ever if you think some guy, who didn't grow up in a culture of players brawling, is going to prove his balls by getting into a scrap with some meat-head who doesn't bother doing anything else.
Unless something egregious happens on the ice in NA, goons don't typically go after skilled players on the ice. And smack talking is not egregious unless you're a 14 year old girl.
Sorry I didn't know jiu jitsu had anything to do with hockey fighting. Dude get over yourself. They had ample opportunity to defend themselves and decided to cower and wimper and turtle. Everyone has two fists right? they could've used them. I rather get my ass kicked standing up for myself than just turtling on the ground.
It's not exactly a situation you have in North America, either, for one skill line to handle three or more goons out there at the same time. They are just waiting for someone to step in while they are pounding away on players down on the ice to get to the next ones. That said, there's no doubt that the reaction would be different in NA. Nobody's debating that the style of play is a very different. Fighting isn't a part of it to nearly the same degree. No problem with anyone disliking that about the Eastern European style of hockey, but it would be incredibly misplaced to use that to put blame on the victims of those pathetic attacks.
Yes.. those poor victims playing a game that they prob get paid pretty well to do. And had a chance to defend themselves and chose to turtle. I get thats how they play over there since fighting is not very prevelent.. But come on dude.. Their still grown ups.
{We don't need grammar police, MOD EDIT} I love that you're ignoring the fact that those guys are pure goons, and if the players being attacked (with no fighting experience) would have tried to defend themselves they would have almost certainly been hurt. If David Krejci tried to "tie up" Mirasty/Yablonski, or square up with them in any way, he'd probably end up on IR.
Last edited by Homeland Security: 02-24-2012 at 01:02 PM.
Reason: See bracket
{We don't need grammar police, MOD EDIT} I love that you're ignoring the fact that those guys are pure goons, and if the players being attacked (with no fighting experience) would have tried to defend themselves they would have almost certainly been hurt. If David Krejci tried to "tie up" Mirasty/Yablonski, or square up with them in any way, he'd probably end up on IR.
{MOD EDIT} if you looked at my post I said that they were goons.. also that the coaches probabley made them go out there and start some ****. I also don't think what they did was very honorable but ****.. its either live on your feet or die on your knees. And Krejci would probabley get his ass kicked.. but then again the bruins or any team in the nhl would never let that happen. Probabley because all those canadians, and americans are just such barbarians. Ohhh the humanity.. poor russians.
Last edited by Homeland Security: 02-24-2012 at 01:03 PM.
Reason: Edit
What are you even talking about? You call that fighting? I'm doubting you have any background in fighting what-so-ever if you think some guy, who didn't grow up in a culture of players brawling, is going to prove his balls by getting into a scrap with some meat-head who doesn't bother doing anything else.
Unless something egregious happens on the ice in NA, goons don't typically go after skilled players on the ice. And smack talking is not egregious unless you're a 14 year old girl.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackNgold 84
Sorry I didn't know jiu jitsu had anything to do with hockey fighting. Dude get over yourself. They had ample opportunity to defend themselves and decided to cower and wimper and turtle. Everyone has two fists right? they could've used them. I rather get my ass kicked standing up for myself than just turtling on the ground.
Where did i mention anything about Jiu Jitsu?? Did you just see the avatar and decide that I was basing my opinion because I train? And get over myself? I'm not in here advocating a hockey culture of throw down the mits to prove your manhood. YOU are. You came in here all: AHMAHGOD EURO HOCKEY IS *****, SHOW SUM BALLS AND FIGHT LIKE A MAN.
But since you mentioned it, I do fight for fun, for hobby, and sometimes for a semi-living. I've competed in Judo since I was a kid, high school wrestling, Brazilian Jiu Jitsu tournaments for the passed 8 years, and local MMA events (one even hosted by a prominent HFboard member). So yea, I might know a bit of the difference between fighting as sport, and fighting as criminal act. You think players should have to defend themselves from people climbing on their backs, and punching them when they haven't challeneged anyone, and haven't dropped the gloves.
You don't prove the "balls" you have by getting beat to pieces because you entered the world of gorilla's when you don't belong there. Like I said there's a reason goons don't typically go after non-goons.
final thought here: In my experience it's always ineffectual pssies that rage on and on about how tough people should be. I never hear this sort of **** from actual players that fight in sports whether it be hockey or a more direct fight sport.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackNgold 84
I rather get my ass kicked standing up for myself than just turtling on the ground.
No you wouldn't. I know plenty of gorilla's that you'd keep your two fists in your pocket and pray someone stepped in and intervened, and if no-one did you'd be hoping for mercy, just like those guys were doing. That only makes you a coward in YOUR world. As far as i'm concerned that is being heady and utilizing common sense, because those goons fight for a living. And that's a total different world than fighting for necessity.
Last edited by SlingshotVv: 02-24-2012 at 12:59 PM.
No you wouldn't. I know plenty of gorilla's that you'd keep your two fists in your pocket and pray someone stepped in and intervened, and if no-one did you'd be hoping for mercy, just like those guys were doing. That only makes you a coward in YOUR world. As far as i'm concerned that is being heady and utilizing common sense, because those goons fight for a living. And that's a total different world than fighting for necessity.
I agree.
If I were playing against this team, I'd probably hide a shank in my glove or something. No way you can take them down in a straight fight....they're like animals trained for the sole purpose of mauling someone.
Yes.. those poor victims playing a game that they prob get paid pretty well to do. And had a chance to defend themselves and chose to turtle. I get thats how they play over there since fighting is not very prevelent.. But come on dude.. Their still grown ups.
What?
You can't possibly be serious. This was not "hey let's fight", and two guys go at it. This is players being hauled down when trying to skate towards the bench or getting suckered in the back of the head. It's a joke.
It's too bad because it hurts the casual fans the most, as odd as that sounds. It gives a crappy impression to North Americans on the quality of the KHL, and it gives the KHL fans a crappy impression of Canadian hockey players. Both view points that have popped up in this very topic. (Not to say any of the users who have posted are casual fans though)
Not endorsing it, but I wouldn't be upset to hear that someone "Perezhogin'd" one of those goofs one game.
God I really hate to be that guy, but yeah... the way they constantly assault "defenseless" players, that's the only possible outcome... And they will have deserved it.
{MOD EDIT} if you looked at my post I said that they were goons.. also that the coaches probabley made them go out there and start some ****. I also don't think what they did was very honorable but ****.. its either live on your feet or die on your knees. And Krejci would probabley get his ass kicked.. but then again the bruins or any team in the nhl would never let that happen. Probabley because all those canadians, and americans are just such barbarians. Ohhh the humanity.. poor russians.
Hey Black N Gold I have a great idea. Let's have Tarnasky, Mirasty and whomever else they are fight Igor Vovchanchyn in a MMA fight?
Live on your feet or die on your knees right?
Vovchanchyn would single handedly dismantle them one or two at a time steam rolling through their entire roster and then polishing off their coach afterwards.
Oh thats not fair, he's an MMA fighter??
So what, these gutless goons spend more time practicing fighting then actually playing.
This is coming from a full blooded Canadian who enjoys fighting, but seeing goons go after non willing/deserving participants is not "tough" it's pathetic.
Where did i mention anything about Jiu Jitsu?? Did you just see the avatar and decide that I was basing my opinion because I train? And get over myself? I'm not in here advocating a hockey culture of throw down the mits to prove your manhood. YOU are. You came in here all: AHMAHGOD EURO HOCKEY IS *****, SHOW SUM BALLS AND FIGHT LIKE A MAN.
But since you mentioned it, I do fight for fun, for hobby, and sometimes for a semi-living. I've competed in Judo since I was a kid, high school wrestling, Brazilian Jiu Jitsu tournaments for the passed 8 years, and local MMA events (one even hosted by a prominent HFboard member). So yea, I might know a bit of the difference between fighting as sport, and fighting as criminal act. You think players should have to defend themselves from people climbing on their backs, and punching them when they haven't challeneged anyone, and haven't dropped the gloves.
You don't prove the "balls" you have by getting beat to pieces because you entered the world of gorilla's when you don't belong there. Like I said there's a reason goons don't typically go after non-goons.
final thought here: In my experience it's always ineffectual pssies that rage on and on about how tough people should be. I never hear this sort of **** from actual players that fight in sports whether it be hockey or a more direct fight sport.
No you wouldn't. I know plenty of gorilla's that you'd keep your two fists in your pocket and pray someone stepped in and intervened, and if no-one did you'd be hoping for mercy, just like those guys were doing. That only makes you a coward in YOUR world. As far as i'm concerned that is being heady and utilizing common sense, because those goons fight for a living. And that's a total different world than fighting for necessity.
So because I call people who signed a contract and get paid to play a sport THAT FIGHTING IS INVOLVEDD.. i expect them to be able to fight, and wrong for this? or at least protect yourself.. or hell hit them a ****ing stick or something. Great dude you've trained in judo.. thats awesome..No one here asked you about your training methods and all this other malarchy. We're talking about HOCKEY FIGHTS.. not some ******* jumping you outside a bar. Seriously some people on here go so crazy for some violence and act like sore vaginas about it. Those "victims" (I believe someone else said it not you) are getting paid more than me and you. They're not victims they signed ont he dotted line to get paid. And they knew what vityaz was all about. I never said that tarnasky and mirasty were not at fault. They're goons simply that. But you don't think any of that was set up and the coaches told them what to do? and you don't think atlant never saw this coming? All Im saying is do something... and yes i'm a ***** because I want professionals (Don't give me different nationalities or cultures) to be able to defend themselves how they want. Not dive around. With all the *****ing back and forth between me and a few people.. I think everyone is missing the point.. This whole scene was bad for hockey.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ominous Grey
What?
You can't possibly be serious. This was not "hey let's fight", and two guys go at it. This is players being hauled down when trying to skate towards the bench or getting suckered in the back of the head. It's a joke.
Yes they got suckered.. tell me where I said mirasty and tarnasky WEREN'T goons.. Atlant had to know something was going on. **** at zherdev tried to stop it for christ sakes. Even you have to empty benches.. DO IT. Theres guys on your team getting their ass handed to them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by markrander87
Hey Black N Gold I have a great idea. Let's have Tarnasky, Mirasty and whomever else they are fight Igor Vovchanchyn in a MMA fight?
Live on your feet or die on your knees right?
Vovchanchyn would single handedly dismantle them one or two at a time steam rolling through their entire roster and then polishing off their coach afterwards.
Oh thats not fair, he's an MMA fighter??
So what, these gutless goons spend more time practicing fighting then actually playing.
This is coming from a full blooded Canadian who enjoys fighting, but seeing goons go after non willing/deserving participants is not "tough" it's pathetic.
Why would you bring up mma? But fine i'll bite.. I'm sure mirasty and tarnasky would get there ass kicked.. but then again they'd show up too. People need to get over themselves in here. You guys aren't protectors of the sport of hockey.. All I hear is people *****ing and moaning.
