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Armchair GM Thread - 2012 Deadline

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Old
03-07-2012, 01:29 AM
  #451
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Originally Posted by HighLifeMan View Post
I could not disagree more...Butler is definitely missed, and Smith has been garbage since returning form injury.

Smith will only be an effective defensemen in the NHL when used in a somewhat sheltered role, he is not smart enough or strong enough defensively to handle top four minutes consistently.

Butler on the other hand has that ability in my eyes.
I agree completely, people are still undervaluing Butler by alot.

a few things stand out to me.

Including the game he was injured the Flames are just 2-3-3 (43.75% of points available), prior to his injury the Flames were winning 55.08% of available points.

Since his injury the shutdown pairing has been on the ice for 9 even strength goals in a little more than 7.5 games (so about 1.20 goals per game), Butler has been on the ice for an average of 0.78even strength goals against in 60 games this year.

With Butler injured the PK has been at a horrible, and I mean horrible 72.0%, prior to the injury they were at a 84.0% clip.

That tells me the Flames are clearly a better team defensively with Butler in the lineup.

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03-07-2012, 06:54 AM
  #452
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Originally Posted by MarkGio View Post
No question Jokinen is the best UFA for this team. Jokinen should get resigned before even talking about the off season deals.

Who needs to be replaced? Sarich, Hannan, Kostopolous, Stempniak, Comeau, and Moss. Even if we gave Jokinen 5 million, we can easily do that with 10 million dollars

Kostopolous and Sarich are already replaced by players already on the roster. Babchuck can replace Sarich, while anybody from Abby can replace Kostopolous. Hannan needs to be replaced on the blue-line, so we should look for a good UFA. Perhaps Souray or Grossman.

I wouldn't give a qualifying offer to Comeau, while Hedjuk or Kostistyn can replace him. Backlund hasn't done anything to deserve a major raise, while Jones isn't going to need a big raise either. That leaves us with maybe 5 million to resign or replace Moss and Stempniak.
The fact that you are letting go a bunch of guys you don't want, you still need to replace them with another body. With few propscts avaiablw to play in the NHL next year, we are stuck with going to the UFA market and overpaying similiar type players. Hadjul and/or Kostistyn will cost a lot more than Comeau did or would, and it's unlikley they would chose calagry unless a serios overpayment was made. Which would be a huge mistake.

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03-07-2012, 08:14 AM
  #453
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Originally Posted by slappipappi View Post
The fact that you are letting go a bunch of guys you don't want, you still need to replace them with another body. With few propscts avaiablw to play in the NHL next year, we are stuck with going to the UFA market and overpaying similiar type players. Hadjul and/or Kostistyn will cost a lot more than Comeau did or would, and it's unlikley they would chose calagry unless a serios overpayment was made. Which would be a huge mistake.
why can't we replace Comeau (who I do think we should retain) from within? We already have a lineup like this under contract (or are RFAs)

Tanguay - _____ - Iginla
Glencross - Backlund - Cammalleri
Baertschi - Stajan - _____
_____ - Jones - Jackman

Bouwmeester - Butler
Giordano - _____
Smith - Brodie
Babchuk

I will concede we don't have a defenseman to step in and be in the top 4, same with a #1 center (which re-signing Jokinen would rectify). That leaves 2 regular spots in the bottom 6 up for grabs and the 13th forward role. I think its safe to say that between Bouma, Byron, Horak and Nemisz those spots could be filled. And that is assuming we don't have another Horak type surprise next season.

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03-07-2012, 09:11 AM
  #454
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Originally Posted by Medium Rare View Post
why can't we replace Comeau (who I do think we should retain) from within? We already have a lineup like this under contract (or are RFAs)

Tanguay - _____ - Iginla
Glencross - Backlund - Cammalleri
Baertschi - Stajan - _____
_____ - Jones - Jackman

Bouwmeester - Butler
Giordano - _____
Smith - Brodie
Babchuk

I will concede we don't have a defenseman to step in and be in the top 4, same with a #1 center (which re-signing Jokinen would rectify). That leaves 2 regular spots in the bottom 6 up for grabs and the 13th forward role. I think its safe to say that between Bouma, Byron, Horak and Nemisz those spots could be filled. And that is assuming we don't have another Horak type surprise next season.
Oh you are correct, that could be our team.

But it sure looks alot like our current team.

My point is that we don't havwe the cap space to make drastic moves. Not that there is much talent available for sale anyway.

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03-07-2012, 09:24 AM
  #455
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I think Toronto just made signing Jokinen unlikely. Olli will likely get a $5 million contract offer from someone, and I'm hoping that isn't the Flames. I could see the Flames letting Jokinen walk and then looking elsewhere for help. I see a couple of scenarios playing out at center. I could see the Flames moving Cammalleri into the middle permanently and then filling the hole on second line with an experienced pivot like Stoll (LA), Campbell (BOS) or Kelly (BOS). I could also see the Flames filling that second line RW spot by re-signing Moss for cheap, or going after someone who had a bad season but has potential to score, like Boyes, or is an under the radar type of guy, like Jones (COL) who will cost them roughly what Jokinen cost them this year on a one or two year deal. The performance of the farm team players could give the Flames the incentive to go with a kid line on the third line and then fill out the 4th line with some energy guys with some potential flexibility. Don't dismiss the possibility of Fedotenko surfacing in Calgary as well.

Tanguay - Cammalleri - Iginla
Glencross - Stoll - Moss/Boyd
Baertschi - Backlund - Nemisz
Fedotenko - Jones - Jackman
Stajan

On the blueline I could see the Flames making a move for an experienced physical defender, like Jackman (STL) and then jettisoning Babchuk's contract to another team, or even Europe, to open up the contact space. I also see the Flames continuing the youth movement and trying to get Ramage into the mix. I see him as a long term compliment to Bouwmeester and allowing Butler to move down the lineup and shore up the 2nd or 3rd pair long term.

Bouwmeester - Butler
Giordano - Jackman
Smith - Brodie
Ramage

In goal it's Napoleon Dynamite time. Irving is the backup and is splitting time almost evenly with Kiprusoff as I honestly believe 2012-2013 will be Kipper's last season in the NHL. I definitely believe it will be his last in Calgary, but I just can't see him coming back to the NHL for the $1 million owed to him. I think if he continues to play it will be in his native Finland. Calgary needs to be ready and that will mean having Irving carrying most of the load and having Ramo as the backup in the post-Kipper era.

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03-07-2012, 09:34 AM
  #456
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Just to add to last couple of pages in this thread. I think we should go after Stoll to round out the top six. Backlund has shown he is capable as a solid defensive #3. I personally love his game and feel the offense will come as he ages, we need to be patient and play him in an appropriate position. Buyout Stajan (or do what you can to to get rid of him). Jones is an ideal #4.

As for the defense; I am with Flames666. Bouwmeester is good, but if we could subtract him and find a way to get a couple of Coburn types into the lineup I would like that way more (help me here, I don't have enough time to really think about a couple of good physical shutdown guys).

What we really need is Suter!

Glencross - Jokinen - Iginla
Tanguay - Stoll - Cammalleri
Baertschi - Backlund - Comeau/Neimisz
Bouma - Jones - Jackman

Coburn - Butler
Giordano - Grossmann
Smith - Brodie
Babchuk

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03-07-2012, 11:43 AM
  #457
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A lot of guys have Babchuk in their line up, I think his time as a Flame is done. I see two things happening, either he is traded or he is going to jet to the KHL, he isn't staying here to play 20 games a season. That being said I see I would drop Derek Smith down as a number 7 and sign a guy like Shane O'Brien for the bottom pairing.

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03-07-2012, 11:47 AM
  #458
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Originally Posted by FLAMES666 View Post
A lot of guys have Babchuk in their line up, I think his time as a Flame is done. I see two things happening, either he is traded or he is going to jet to the KHL, he isn't staying here to play 20 games a season. That being said I see I would drop Derek Smith down as a number 7 and sign a guy like Shane O'Brien for the bottom pairing.
I don't want O'Brien he takes way to many stupid penalties if we are looking for a physical bottom pairing defenseman I would rather get Grossmann or Hunwick.

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03-07-2012, 11:53 AM
  #459
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Originally Posted by The Gnome View Post
Just to add to last couple of pages in this thread. I think we should go after Stoll to round out the top six. Backlund has shown he is capable as a solid defensive #3. I personally love his game and feel the offense will come as he ages, we need to be patient and play him in an appropriate position. Buyout Stajan (or do what you can to to get rid of him). Jones is an ideal #4.

As for the defense; I am with Flames666. Bouwmeester is good, but if we could subtract him and find a way to get a couple of Coburn types into the lineup I would like that way more (help me here, I don't have enough time to really think about a couple of good physical shutdown guys).

What we really need is Suter!

Glencross - Jokinen - Iginla
Tanguay - Stoll - Cammalleri
Baertschi - Backlund - Comeau/Neimisz
Bouma - Jones - Jackman

Coburn - Butler
Giordano - Grossmann
Smith - Brodie
Babchuk
I don't get the point of buying out Stajan and bringing in Stoll. Stoll is more phyiscal I will admit that but their FO% is almost the same not to mention Stajan's ppg is .217 while playing only 11 minutes a night mostly on the fourth line versus Stoll's ppg is .29 while playing on the third line and getting significant pp time while Stajan gets none.

I think buying out Stajan and signing Stoll will be the same cap hit to get about the same player. If Sutter actual used Stajan in a role he is meant for there would be no problem as I guarantee you he would out produce Stoll on the second line. I think this is a case of wanting a new shinny toy and forgetting about what we already have.

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03-07-2012, 12:09 PM
  #460
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Originally Posted by TheGleninator View Post
I don't get the point of buying out Stajan and bringing in Stoll. Stoll is more phyiscal I will admit that but their FO% is almost the same not to mention Stajan's ppg is .217 while playing only 11 minutes a night mostly on the fourth line versus Stoll's ppg is .29 while playing on the third line and getting significant pp time while Stajan gets none.

I think buying out Stajan and signing Stoll will be the same cap hit to get about the same player. If Sutter actual used Stajan in a role he is meant for there would be no problem as I guarantee you he would out produce Stoll on the second line. I think this is a case of wanting a new shinny toy and forgetting about what we already have.
I'm not saying it will happen, but I would do it. Stoll is a way better player IMO. Better defensivly, more physical, better pass and regardless of how accurate it's been this year he has a rocket. Regardless of stats it is well known that he is one of the better FO men in the league (something I think this team needs more then anything). He's been used on the wing way to much this year because he's the odd man out in LA. Many LA fans seem to think he would do better in a top 6 role, where Stajan obviously does not have success.

Stoll is simply a better centreman option for the top 6 then Stajan and I feel Backlund should be our #3 C to start next year.

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03-07-2012, 12:24 PM
  #461
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Originally Posted by The Gnome View Post
I'm not saying it will happen, but I would do it. Stoll is a way better player IMO. Better defensivly, more physical, better pass and regardless of how accurate it's been this year he has a rocket. Regardless of stats it is well known that he is one of the better FO men in the league (something I think this team needs more then anything). He's been used on the wing way to much this year because he's the odd man out in LA. Many LA fans seem to think he would do better in a top 6 role, where Stajan obviously does not have success.

Stoll is simply a better centreman option for the top 6 then Stajan and I feel Backlund should be our #3 C to start next year.
I think Stoll is slightly better but will be demanding 2.5 mil+ so with buying out stajan that is about the same cap hit for a slight increase. Personally I would rather

Glencross - Jokinen - Iginla
Tanguay - Stoll - Cammalleri
Baertschi - Stajan - Backlund
Bouma - Jones - Jackman/Comeau

Backlund has shown little offesnive ability and I think putting him on the wing and allowing Stajan to worry about faceoffs and being defensive would do wonders for Backlund and his confidence.

Honestly if we played Stajan in an offensive roll in any way shape or form he would produce at a much higher rate.

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03-07-2012, 12:43 PM
  #462
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Originally Posted by TheGleninator View Post
I think Stoll is slightly better but will be demanding 2.5 mil+ so with buying out stajan that is about the same cap hit for a slight increase. Personally I would rather

Glencross - Jokinen - Iginla
Tanguay - Stoll - Cammalleri
Baertschi - Stajan - Backlund
Bouma - Jones - Jackman/Comeau

Backlund has shown little offesnive ability and I think putting him on the wing and allowing Stajan to worry about faceoffs and being defensive would do wonders for Backlund and his confidence.

Honestly if we played Stajan in an offensive roll in any way shape or form he would produce at a much higher rate.
I don't want to move Backlund to wing. While I respect your logic, I just don't agree with Stajan belonging in our lineup and pushing Backlund to wing.

Backlund is a good defensive centreman, and should only round more into form as he ages. Taking our only centre with upside and putting him on the wing is a very bad idea IMO. We really need Backlund to improve at being a productive centre because this team is so weak down the middle.

I'd rather just not sign Stoll and try Stajan in the top six in that case. If it doesn't work it seems like Cammy may be capable at playing #1C anyways and then Stajan can ride the pine again.

To me Stajan just does not have a spot in this lineup. I'd rather Jones be on the 4th line, Cammy/Jokinen top 6, and Backlund as the #3. All 4 of these guys are more effective in these respective roles.

Maybe we can trade Stajan (my fingers are crossed). I cannot stand players who are mediocre at everything and specialize at nothing. This is exactly what Stajan is, and why he cannot find a role in our lineup.

EDIT: I see your point about signing Stoll and buying out Stajan. I simply feel Stoll is a bigger upgrade then you think.

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03-12-2012, 06:29 PM
  #463
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I am assuming we are letting Hannan and Sarich go in the offseason and it doesn't look like babs has a spot on the team so I would like to see us try and sign Justin Schultz if Anaheim can't sign him before july 1. He is young and a puck mover I think he would be good with Smith on the 3rd pairing.

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