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All-Purpose Trade Rumors and Speculation Thread Part 4

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02-21-2012, 05:20 PM
  #626
TheJuxtaposer
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Originally Posted by Fistfullofbeer View Post
Do you guys think something like Clowe/Mitchell/2nd would be an underpayment for Nash?? Would be need to include Demers/Braun in this??

Just trying to figure out from a value perspective.
Mitchell is a cap dump, 2nd would be 55th overall, and Clowe is having a down year. Uh, YEAH I think we'd have to include Demers or Braun and probably a top goaltending prospect. That's why it's not worth it.

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02-21-2012, 05:21 PM
  #627
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Originally Posted by Fistfullofbeer View Post
Do you guys think something like Clowe/Mitchell/2nd would be an underpayment for Nash?? Would be need to include Demers/Braun in this??

Just trying to figure out from a value perspective.
That won't come close to getting Nash. Braun/Demers would be included, likely Greiss as well as a pick. The Blue Jackets are not going to 'settle' for anything less than what they want, they don't have to.

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02-21-2012, 05:29 PM
  #628
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Just don't see Nash coming to SJ, at least not as a trade deadline acquisition. One of Pavelski or Couture would have to be included and I'd like to think that either of those guys aren't on the block.

DW always seems to pull some deal out of left field so we'll see.

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Old
02-21-2012, 05:30 PM
  #629
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Originally Posted by Eid Ma Clack Shaw View Post
Just don't see Nash coming to SJ, at least not as a trade deadline acquisition. One of Pavelski or Couture would have to be included and I'd like to think that either of those guys aren't on the block.

DW always seems to pull some deal out of left field so we'll see.
And they are both better players than Nash. So unless CBJ is adding (a lot) to Nash...

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02-21-2012, 05:31 PM
  #630
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And they are both better players than Nash. So unless CBJ is adding (a lot) to Nash...
IMO Pavelski > Nash but I don't think Couture is as good as him quite yet. Either way, if you take contracts into consideration it's not even close; both are far, far more valuable than Nash.

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02-21-2012, 05:32 PM
  #631
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Detroit traded a 1st for Kyle Quincey??!! Jesus, that's terrible.

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02-21-2012, 05:39 PM
  #632
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Originally Posted by Clowe Me View Post
Detroit traded a 1st for Kyle Quincey??!! Jesus, that's terrible.
Well it's the 30th overall pick in a top-heavy draft...

Wonder if Stevie Y will be able to package the three second rounders with Detroit's first to nab the Bolts a second top-five pick. If not, they probably should have kept Quincey. He's a guy they could use.

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02-21-2012, 05:42 PM
  #633
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Unless Nash requests a trade the Sharks can't be a real player for him.

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Old
02-21-2012, 05:42 PM
  #634
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Originally Posted by Les Wynan View Post
Well it's the 30th overall pick in a top-heavy draft...

Wonder if Stevie Y will be able to package the three second rounders with Detroit's first to nab the Bolts a second top-five pick. If not, they probably should have kept Quincey. He's a guy they could use.
Quincy is a PMD playing top 4 minutes...he's worth the Detroit 1st.

I'd be willing to bet that Yzermen uses one or more of those picks to get himself a starting goalie which they need far more than they need Quincy.

Edit: Quincy was playing as Col. #1 d-man...a 1st is nothing.


Last edited by stalockrox: 02-21-2012 at 05:50 PM.
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02-21-2012, 05:48 PM
  #635
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Originally Posted by stalockrox View Post
Quincy is a PMD playing top 4 minutes...he's worth the Detroit 1st.

I'd be willing to bet that Yzermen uses one or more of those picks to get himself a starting goalie which they need far more than they need Quincy.
I think Yzerman should call St. Louis about Ben Bishop. Also, TB needs to try to tank the rest of the season and get Yakupov. I don't want to see another russian guy go to Columbus and just be awful at hockey.

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02-21-2012, 05:51 PM
  #636
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Originally Posted by Lebanezer View Post
Unless Nash requests a trade the Sharks can't be a real player for him.
He could be though. Like Heatley, he may want to go to a talented Cup Contender, but want to go to a place where he won't have immense media pressure on him (like Toronto, NY, etc.)

If he says I'm not going anywhere but SJ, all of a sudden Clowe + one of Sateri/Stalock/Sexsmith + another prospect + 1st for Nash + 6th or 7th starts to make sense to Scott Howson.

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02-21-2012, 05:52 PM
  #637
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Originally Posted by Lebanezer View Post
I think Yzerman should call St. Louis about Ben Bishop.
Bishop would be interesting, but he's still not an established goalie and he's UFA after this year. He could use any combo of those 5 picks in the first two rounds and likely have enough to entice Vancouver to move Schneider in the offseason.


Last edited by stalockrox: 02-21-2012 at 06:04 PM.
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Old
02-21-2012, 05:56 PM
  #638
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Originally Posted by stalockrox View Post
Bishop would be interesting, but he's still not an established goalie and he's UFA after this year. He could use any combo of those 5 picks in the first two rounds and likely have enough to entice Vancouver to move Schneider.
Not likely. Vancouver management has gone on record repeatedly here saying they'd have to be offered up marquee talent to consider trading Schneider right now.

General consensus is that they want to keep him as meltdown insurance for Luongo.

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02-21-2012, 05:56 PM
  #639
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Originally Posted by ChompChomp View Post
He could be though. Like Heatley, he may want to go to a talented Cup Contender, but want to go to a place where he won't have immense media pressure on him (like Toronto, NY, etc.)

If he says I'm not going anywhere but SJ, all of a sudden Clowe + one of Sateri/Stalock/Sexsmith + another prospect + 1st for Nash + 6th or 7th starts to make sense to Scott Howson.
A more likely scenario is Philly, Boston, Vancouver and NYR are not interested (they shouldn't be) because of his salary, LA isn't on his list (as is being speculated).

That leaves Doug Wilson, sitting pretty on a bunch of cap space to do what he does best and politely calls up Howsen and says "Hey, i can't offer you a kings ransom, but here's a fair deal just in case you don't get any better offers".

If we get Nash, that's how I think it will go down.

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02-21-2012, 05:57 PM
  #640
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Originally Posted by The Nemesis View Post
Not likely. Vancouver management has gone on record repeatedly here saying they'd have to be offered up marquee talent to consider trading Schneider right now.

General consensus is that they want to keep him as meltdown insurance for Luongo.
I meant after this year.

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02-21-2012, 05:58 PM
  #641
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The sharks would need to lose a decently paid player in any Nash trade to help with the cap next year.

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Old
02-21-2012, 06:03 PM
  #642
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Do we have any official word as to whether Nash's NMC/NTC would survive a trade? Capgeek always says that you can never be certain that an NMC/NTC would still be intact after it is waived for a deal.

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02-21-2012, 06:06 PM
  #643
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Originally Posted by ChompChomp View Post
Do we have any official word as to whether Nash's NMC/NTC would survive a trade?
From what our CBA-gurus are saying, the only way to lose a NMC/NTC is to acquire the player before it becomes intact and the team chooses not to honor it (deals like Richards and Carter). So all signs point to Nash still having his clause even if he's traded.

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02-21-2012, 06:07 PM
  #644
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Originally Posted by ChompChomp View Post
Do we have any official word as to whether Nash's NMC/NTC would survive a trade? Capgeek always says that you can never be certain that an NMC/NTC would still be intact after it is waived for a deal.
It's very rare that the acquiring team does not honor the NMC/NTC.

Here's a quote on that from capgeek.com

Quote:
If a player waives a clause to accept a trade to a new team, it is rare he will do so without a promise that the acquiring team will continue to honour the clause. Brad Richards, when traded from Tampa Bay to Dallas in 2007-08, is an example of this. However, if the player is traded before a clause has kicked in, that clause is automatically ruled void.

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Old
02-21-2012, 06:08 PM
  #645
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Originally Posted by ChompChomp View Post
Do we have any official word as to whether Nash's NMC/NTC would survive a trade? Capgeek always says that you can never be certain that an NMC/NTC would still be intact after it is waived for a deal.
My understanding is this (and not claiming to be an expert):

1) IF there is a clause in the contract specifically stating that if the NTC is waived, it is void, then it can be voided post trade.

2) IF there is no clause in the contract specificallys tarting that if the NTC is waived, it is void, then it can NOT be voided post trade.

3) If the contract includes a NTC, but the contract is not yet in effect (Carter) then the NTC can be maintained or voided at the discretion of the receiving team.

So to answer your question, we have no way of knowing if such a clause exists in Nash's contract (or Havlats) but it's fairly unlikely is my bet.

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Old
02-21-2012, 06:10 PM
  #646
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Lateral move at best, isn't it? Clowe isn't having a great year this year, but neither is Brown. You get younger and faster, but you lose Clowe's dominance along the boards, his known leadership, and his chemistry with the other teammates. I'd probably do it in the off-season, but not now.
Yeah this. Plus Clowe is a beast in the playoffs when healthy and that's the most important thing right now.

I am surprised how often I see players mentioned on here that don't really perform in the post-season. Or haven't proven themselves against that type of competition. The goal is to win the cup still, right? It's fine if guys like Clowe somewhat coast through parts of the regular season, as long as they keep themselves healthy and perform in the big games. I still think guys like Tikkanen and Claude were great.

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Old
02-21-2012, 06:14 PM
  #647
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Originally Posted by WTFetus View Post
Lateral move at best, isn't it? Clowe isn't having a great year this year, but neither is Brown. You get younger and faster, but you lose Clowe's dominance along the boards, his known leadership, and his chemistry with the other teammates. I'd probably do it in the off-season, but not now.
Brown is the LA captain and a fantastic leader, so if anything we gain with Brown over Clowe. Brown is younger (by 2 years), faster, better defensively (not great, but better), hits like freight train ALL of the time, and never takes a shift off. He's not quite as good along the boards as Clowe, but is a better player in every other category IMO.

He's also signed for an additional year at about $500k less and doesn't have the injury history Clowe does.

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02-21-2012, 06:15 PM
  #648
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Originally Posted by TehJuxtaposer View Post
Hell no. Brown is an overrated third-liner.
If you think that, you don't watch LA enough and we can't even have a conversation on the topic.

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Old
02-21-2012, 06:18 PM
  #649
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If you think that, you don't watch LA enough and we can't even have a conversation on the topic.
I like Brown a lot too, but he is having a very brutal year. LA fans are not pleased with him.

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02-21-2012, 06:23 PM
  #650
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Yeah this. Plus Clowe is a beast in the playoffs when healthy and that's the most important thing right now.

I am surprised how often I see players mentioned on here that don't really perform in the post-season. Or haven't proven themselves against that type of competition. The goal is to win the cup still, right? It's fine if guys like Clowe somewhat coast through parts of the regular season, as long as they keep themselves healthy and perform in the big games. I still think guys like Tikkanen and Claude were great.
Other than last year when he only had 2 points in 6 games, Brown has been nearly a PPG player in the playoffs at every level he's played (with the exception of his very first playoffs in the OHL). And he's had pretty much equal or better numbers than Clowe for each of the last 4 years in the regular season.

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