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Rick Nash Part V: All Nash talk/proposals/etc. here

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Old
02-18-2012, 11:12 AM
  #76
seanlinden
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Originally Posted by Gagnefan924 View Post
I'd want Voynov over Johnson. Like his game a lot better. I'd say him and gardiner are a wash. No way LA doesnt offer up Bernier. Unless its a really lowball offer from LA, I take their deal. TOR package doesn't fill the main need of goalie...
This where HF differs from actual GMs. For a guy like Howson, JJ is significantly more valuable than Voynov, because he's a much better player. The vision for Columbus isn't to make this a 3-4 year rebuild, it'll be to cash out on Nash, and get 3-4 young assets that can help turn the team around quicker. As for the comparison between Gardiner and Voynov, it's not really fair to compare a rookie in his 1st professional season playing 20+ a night in the NHL to a seasoned AHL professional who's between the NHL and AHL.

While Bernier may fill the main need of a goalie, you have to consider market value and the Jackets other alternatives for a goaltender. Maybe they also trade Jeff Carter and get a Neuvirth / Holtby from Washington. Maybe they pick up St. Louis' Ben Bishop, or a guy like Ben Scrivens from Toronto. Bernier is one of the best young backups in the league, but the transition from backup to starter is notoriously unreliable. If Bernier's got a 40% chance of being good enough to be a #1, and some other goalie has a 30% chance and would only cost a mid-round pick... it doesn't make a ton of sense to give up Kadri for a mid-round pick and a 10% incrementa chance in getting a goalie.

While those percentages are obviously approximate, Howson is really setting his team up for failure if he evaluates Bernier at a 50% or more goaltender.

As for not offering Bernier, it's a distinct possibility if the Kings do offer JJ. You can certainly make the case that it doesn't make sense for the Kings to part with JJ, Bernier and their 1st this year.

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02-18-2012, 11:21 AM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Gagnefan924 View Post
Have you seen some of these proposals?
Proposals made up by a bunch of kids on a website have nothing to do with what the Leafs can pull off in real life. Again whether they break the bank for Nash is a different story all on it's own.

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02-18-2012, 11:21 AM
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Badgerfan View Post
To Jackets:
2 of the following 3:
- Miller
- Erixon
- McIirath
&
-1st in 2012.
-Anisimov

To NYR:
-Rick Nash
-3rd in 2012.


I think that is a very fair trade offer to the Jackets. They will be getting 3 first rounders and Anisimov.
I don't think they'll pull the trigger on that. It's not bad, but we could really use a defenseman from the Rangers. One of MDZ, McDonagh, or Staal is what we really need, and I think without one of them in the offer, the Jackets hold off. Our defense at the moment has 3 NHL caliber defenseman.

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02-18-2012, 11:21 AM
  #79
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Ahhh, Oiler fans.
Also draft picks mean very little,look at Edmonton.They have picked high in draft for like a hundred years it seems and they are still brutal.Horcoff #1 OMG,cmon oiler fans make a legit offer.

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02-18-2012, 11:27 AM
  #80
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Agreed. Even if Parise ends up resigning or a wing, they'll set their sights on the following summer. No need unless they're giving Nash away.
Exactly, and someone asked who? (With respect to who on july first will they get who's better than nash)
Whomever the marquee forward is that year that gets to july 1.

If the rangers are one of the top teams, have cap room and express an interest or even imply they will be looking at the best forwards available - then all said forwards (who were planning to wait) will wait to see if the rangers want them.

The rangers are the team that leaf fans think the leafs are - which is the team and city every ufa really does want to play.
(Except being new york, they don't need to say it).

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02-18-2012, 11:29 AM
  #81
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If I had to put down a prediction of what the Jackets will deal him for at the deadline in general form, here's my best bet.

Quote:
Young top-4 defenseman with top-pairing potential (e.g., MDZ, Jack Johnson)

& Two prospects of the caliber or Bernier, Loktionov, Miller, McIlrath, Kreider
Not saying that anyone should offer this, nor am I saying that this type of move would be beneficial or not. I'm saying this is what I suspect it will take to get the CBJ to deal Nash at the deadline. Without this package, they'll be happy to wait until the summer I am sure. Even then, the franchise risks a mutiny if they deal him for significantly less than this price.

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02-18-2012, 11:32 AM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondercarrot View Post
Exactly, and someone asked who? (With respect to who on july first will they get who's better than nash)
Whomever the marquee forward is that year that gets to july 1.

If the rangers are one of the top teams, have cap room and express an interest or even imply they will be looking at the best forwards available - then all said forwards (who were planning to wait) will wait to see if the rangers want them.

The rangers are the team that leaf fans think the leafs are - which is the team and city every ufa really does want to play.
(Except being new york, they don't need to say it).
This year the only option is Parise who will not get less than Nash. Recall, you said they will get a better cheaper player. It's just not going to happen. You can point to Richards, but in reality he's pulling down 12 million this year.

Though I should say, Parise might sign for less than Nash in Detroit. That's the place people really want to play. The Rangers have managed to attract free agents of the years by forking out the big bucks. Players will take a discount to play in Detroit. Either way, there aren't many players of Nash's caliber that actually hit the market, and the ones that do are there because they want a big payday.

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02-18-2012, 11:36 AM
  #83
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This thread has the potential to be bump worthy depending on what Nash gets. I mean there are only 5 teams that he can be traded to and some people are expecting a Lindrosian type haul.

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02-18-2012, 11:43 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Crisp Breakout View Post
This year the only option is Parise who will not get less than Nash. Recall, you said they will get a better cheaper player. It's just not going to happen. You can point to Richards, but in reality he's pulling down 12 million this year.

Though I should say, Parise might sign for less than Nash in Detroit. That's the place people really want to play. The Rangers have managed to attract free agents of the years by forking out the big bucks. Players will take a discount to play in Detroit. Either way, there aren't many players of Nash's caliber that actually hit the market, and the ones that do are there because they want a big payday.
The dollar payout is completely irrelevent, especially for the rangers - its just another advantage they have. Cap hit is the only thing that counts (and ill bet parise goes for less than nash wherever he goes)

Also perry, getzlaf and some other natables are potential ufa the following year.

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02-18-2012, 11:43 AM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Wondercarrot View Post
The dollar payout is completely irrelevent, especially for the rangers - its just another advantage they have. Cap hit is the only thing that counts (and ill bet parise goes for less than nash wherever he goes)
Well next summer is probably the last opportunity for that. You can bet 'retirement' contracts will be on the agenda for this next CBA.

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02-18-2012, 11:44 AM
  #86
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Originally Posted by shakes View Post
This thread has the potential to be bump worthy depending on what Nash gets. I mean there are only 5 teams that he can be traded to and some people are expecting a Lindrosian type haul.
i'm excited to find the people who are so down on him and talk badly about him, but will be ecstatic when their team gets him (if he is finally moved).

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02-18-2012, 11:45 AM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Wondercarrot View Post
The rangers are the team that leaf fans think the leafs are - which is the team and city every ufa really does want to play.
(Except being new york, they don't need to say it).
I believe we will be when/if we're a contending team again. In New York, hockey isn't even close to being the #1 sport in town which allows players some level of anonymity when **** hits the fan. In toronto thats not possible seeing as other sports are a distant second when it comes to hockey.

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02-18-2012, 11:46 AM
  #88
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Me. If he even gets traded.
He'll get moved there is no going back from this. This is a mutual agreement with both parties.

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02-18-2012, 12:09 PM
  #89
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He'll get moved there is no going back from this. This is a mutual agreement with both parties.
Agree, but it may not be til summer, I think Carter could go in the next week, but Nash
not so sure..

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02-18-2012, 12:10 PM
  #90
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Agree, but it may not be til summer, I think Carter could go in the next week, but Nash
not so sure..
Not sure if Carter will be moved. Most likely but I'd love to keep him.

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02-18-2012, 12:14 PM
  #91
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Lori Schmidt @LoriSchmidt
According to multiple reports, #CBJ GM Scott Howson and adviser Craig Patrick are on hand to watch the Flyers/Pens game today.

i don't know if this belongs here, but i am not going to start a new thread for it.

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02-18-2012, 12:16 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by fsanford View Post
Agree, but it may not be til summer, I think Carter could go in the next week, but Nash
not so sure..
Maybe, maybe not. If they can similar value to what they gave up then sure he's outta here soon, but otherwise I think they'll hold onto him.

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02-18-2012, 12:22 PM
  #93
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If Philadelphia is on Nash's list, I wonder what they would give up.

JVR+ ?

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02-18-2012, 12:25 PM
  #94
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If Philadelphia is on Nash's list, I wonder what they would give up.

JVR+ ?
From the offers already made, it seems like CLB fans would riot if they got anything less than JVR+Couturier++

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02-18-2012, 12:35 PM
  #95
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I think an okay (clearly not perfect) benchmark to gauge the value of Nash is Stamkos. Stamkos gets more points, he is younger and he is signed for less (signed this past offseason). No teams (atleast reported) put forward an offer sheet to sign him and if he took it, it would have cost 4 1st round picks. Therefore one can hastily jump to the conclusion (I know that there are many other things to consider) that Nash is not worth the equivalent of 4 first round draft picks. I'm thinking Columbus won't get anymore than a 1st and 2 prospects (former first rounds (and still worth it) or prospects who now have that value) or a 1st and a roster player + prospect. Highly likely some salary going to Columbus as well, but not necessary.

If an offer comes forward to Columbus that has high value but doesn't fill needs I think Columbus should jump at it and tinker with what they got in the trade/other assets to fill their needs.

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02-18-2012, 12:39 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by Grant123 View Post
I think an okay (clearly not perfect) benchmark to gauge the value of Nash is Stamkos. Stamkos gets more points, he is younger and he is signed for less (signed this past offseason). No teams (atleast reported) put forward an offer sheet to sign him and if he took it, it would have cost 4 1st round picks. Therefore one can hastily jump to the conclusion (I know that there are many other things to consider) that Nash is not worth the equivalent of 4 first round draft picks. I'm thinking Columbus won't get anymore than a 1st and 2 prospects (former first rounds (and still worth it) or prospects who now have that value) or a 1st and a roster player + prospect. Highly likely some salary going to Columbus as well, but not necessary.

If an offer comes forward to Columbus that has high value but doesn't fill needs I think Columbus should jump at it and tinker with what they got in the trade/other assets to fill their needs.
You make an assumption that is likely incorrect. Not wanting to offer 4 first round picks is not the only reason for which a team wouldn't have offer sheeted Stamkos.

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02-18-2012, 12:42 PM
  #97
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All quiet in Boston where Peverley is out for 6 weeks, no Horton on the horizon and the Bruins playing .500 hockey at best in 2012.

Chiarelli offers all his Cup-Winning UFAs contacts to assess where he is on the cap for the next two years. More silence.

It is clear to everyone in Boston that this move paired with the injuries to Peverley and Horton mean that Chiarelli wants to add a contract to the Bruins that extends beyond this season so he needed to make offers to his UFAs now and not after the deadline.

Cap issues arent a problem in Boston with threads there breaking it down and illustrating how Lucic, Marchand and Seguin will add 5.0 million to he cap combined in 2013-2014 unless Seguin turns into Stamkos.

More silence.

Nash names Boston as a destination. Leafs, Rangers and Kings fans all bring forth their best proposals and Bruins fans argue amongst themselves if he should even be pursued, let alone get in on the bidding war. More silence in Boston.

If San Jose and Boston are indeed two of the five, watch out for Wilson and Chiarelli this weekend. Reuniting Nash and Thornton or giving Seguin his first permanent role as a center with Nash are strong motivating factors.

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02-18-2012, 12:44 PM
  #98
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02-18-2012, 12:45 PM
  #99
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Have you seen some of these proposals?
This random forum posters don't represent the Leafs organization..

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02-18-2012, 12:45 PM
  #100
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Originally Posted by Crisp Breakout View Post
You make an assumption that is likely incorrect. Not wanting to offer 4 first round picks is not the only reason for which a team wouldn't have offer sheeted Stamkos.
Reading back I see I wasn't exactly clear in what I wrote and what I intended to say. Yes there are many reasons as to why not to give someone an offer sheet, my 'clearly not perfect' and 'hastily jump to the conclusion' comments were meant to refer to the Stamkos situation as much as it does to the current Nash one.

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