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Best Individual Playoff Performance, Post-Lockout

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Old
02-18-2012, 11:05 AM
  #1
DisgruntledGoat*
 
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Best Individual Playoff Performance, Post-Lockout

My initial list with absolutely no explanation whatsoever:

1. Pronger- 2006
2. Thomas- 2011
3. Malkin- 2009

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02-18-2012, 11:16 AM
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GuineaPig
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Does "best individual performance" necessitate that the person make the Cup Finals?

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02-18-2012, 11:21 AM
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TheDevilMadeMe
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Zetterberg 2008 and Malkin 2009 are my votes.

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02-18-2012, 11:22 AM
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MadLuke
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Originally Posted by GuineaPig View Post
Does "best individual performance" necessitate that the person make the Cup Finals?
I don't think so.

Other good one's not named (but probably not top 3 either):

Datsyuk and Crosby had very good one.
Halak with the habs.

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02-18-2012, 11:41 AM
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GuineaPig
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Halak's performance was overrated, imo.

Short (but great) performances I would include are Bryzgalov in 2006, and Crosby in 2010.

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02-18-2012, 11:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GuineaPig View Post
Does "best individual performance" necessitate that the person make the Cup Finals?
For me, it does but I don't think it violates the spirit of the debate to include others.

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02-18-2012, 11:48 AM
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TheDevilMadeMe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GuineaPig View Post
Halak's performance was overrated, imo.

Short (but great) performances I would include are Bryzgalov in 2006, and Crosby in 2010.
Crosby in 2010 who torched a terrible Ottawa defense in the first round, then was held to something like 3 points in second round?

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02-18-2012, 11:59 AM
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Crosby in 2010 who torched a terrible Ottawa defense in the first round, then was held to something like 3 points in second round?
Yeah, that Crosby. Scoring 5 points in the second round in no way negates him scoring 14 in the first. Or his excellent defensive play.

EDIT: I could also say something like "Zetterberg in 2008 only scored 4 points against the Predators, and needed a weak team like Colorado to explode offensively."

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02-18-2012, 12:26 PM
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Originally Posted by GuineaPig View Post
Does "best individual performance" necessitate that the person make the Cup Finals?
Yes, I think so.

I think this list comes down to the Conn Smythe winners. There are 6 of them so far. Ward, Niedermayer, Zetterberg, Malkin, Toews and Thomas.

Take out Ward and Niedermayer for sure and insert Pronger (2006) and Alfredsson (2007) who did better in losing causes. Yet they wouldn't be #1 either.

That leaves 4 Conn Smythe winners. Zetterberg is a clear #1 in 2008. Malkin in 2009 with Crosby close to him. Toews in 2010 with Kane and Keith very close to him, if not as good. Thomas pretty much alone in 2011.

So.........
Zetterberg in 2008
Malkin 2009
Crosby 2009
Thomas 2011

In my mind that's the best 4 post lockout. Briere is fine in 2010, but he lost, so that hurts him.

My pick is Malkin. 36 points is amazing and he stepped up in the final when Crosby was being shadowed. When you have to go back to Sakic in 1996 to find the last 30+ playoff scorer that's telling. And even then Malkin was at least as good as Sakic in 1996, probably better. You want to see utter domination? Watch Malkin against the Canes in 2009. 9 points in 3 games (shut out in Game 4). It was a classic example of a player deciding to win a series just by scoring.

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02-18-2012, 12:58 PM
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Franzén was injured for the finals in 2008, so he's not really a contender for best overall play-off performance.

His run up until the finals was spectacular however. 13 goals in 16 play-off games is a Red Wings record.

I'll nominate his performance against Colorado in the Western Conference semi-finals as the best single series performance since the lock-out. 9 goals in a 4 game series is an NHL record. What's even more impressive is that the entire Avalanche team only managed 9 goals. That's right, Franzén by himself scored as much as the entire Avalanche team during the series.


Last edited by steve141: 02-18-2012 at 01:07 PM.
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02-18-2012, 01:06 PM
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Originally Posted by steve141 View Post
Franzén was injured for the finals in 2008, so he's not really a contender for best overall play-off performance.

His run up until the finals was spectacular however. 13 goals in 16 play-off games is a Red Wings record.

I'll nominate his performance against Colorado in the Western Conference semi-finals as the best single series performance since the lock-out. 9 goals in a 4 game series is an NHL record. What's even more impressive is that the entire Avalanche team only managed 9 goals. That's right, Franzén by himself scored as much as the entire Avalance team during the series.
Interesting side topic. Who else would nominees for best single round performance be? Crosby against Ottawa 2010, Malkin against Carolina 2009 have been mentioned. Crosby against Washington 2009 has to be up there.

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02-18-2012, 01:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Interesting side topic. Who else would nominees for best single round performance be? Crosby against Ottawa 2010, Malkin against Carolina 2009 have been mentioned. Crosby against Washington 2009 has to be up there.
Halak vs the Caps 2010. The Pens were good but were only really scary when they got PP's, that Caps team was crazy scary and dangerous all the time not just when they got a PP.

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02-18-2012, 01:23 PM
  #13
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Crosby in 2010 who torched a terrible Ottawa defense in the first round, then was held to something like 3 points in second round?
Would you have called the Ottawa defense "terrible" before the series? Chris Phillips and Anton Volchenkov had been successful against Crosby in the past in the regular season and the 2007 playoffs. Phillips had probably his second best season in 2009-10, and Volchenkov was good.

Jason Spezza was outplayed by Crosby in their matchup, but again, Spezza had matched up against him successfully in the past, including the 2007 playoffs.

Ottawa was a pretty average team that year, and were a bit over their heads finishing in 5th, but they were far from terrible.

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02-18-2012, 01:28 PM
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Originally Posted by overpass View Post
Would you have called the Ottawa defense "terrible" before the series? Chris Phillips and Anton Volchenkov had been successful against Crosby in the past in the regular season and the 2007 playoffs. Phillips had probably his second best season in 2009-10, and Volchenkov was good.

Jason Spezza was outplayed by Crosby in their matchup, but again, Spezza had matched up against him successfully in the past, including the 2007 playoffs.

Ottawa was a pretty average team that year, and were a bit over their heads finishing in 5th, but they were far from terrible.
I would have called Ottawa's goaltending bad before the series. I didn't see that much of the series, so maybe I shouldn't have been so quick to dismiss it. For whatever reason, Ottawa couldn't handle Crosby that series, but Montreal thoroughly shut him down in the second round

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02-18-2012, 01:31 PM
  #15
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
I would have called Ottawa's goaltending bad before the series. I didn't see that much of the series, so maybe I shouldn't have been so quick to dismiss it. For whatever reason, Ottawa couldn't handle Crosby that series, but Montreal thoroughly shut him down in the second round
Oh yeah, Ottawa's goaltending was pretty bad. Big difference between facing Brian Elliott in round 1 and Jaroslav Halak in round 2.

(Or at least there was a big difference between Elliott and Halak in 2010...)

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02-18-2012, 02:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Big Phil View Post
Yes, I think so.

I think this list comes down to the Conn Smythe winners. There are 6 of them so far. Ward, Niedermayer, Zetterberg, Malkin, Toews and Thomas.

Take out Ward and Niedermayer for sure and insert Pronger (2006) and Alfredsson (2007) who did better in losing causes. Yet they wouldn't be #1 either.

That leaves 4 Conn Smythe winners. Zetterberg is a clear #1 in 2008. Malkin in 2009 with Crosby close to him. Toews in 2010 with Kane and Keith very close to him, if not as good. Thomas pretty much alone in 2011.

So.........
Zetterberg in 2008
Malkin 2009
Crosby 2009
Thomas 2011

In my mind that's the best 4 post lockout. Briere is fine in 2010, but he lost, so that hurts him.

My pick is Malkin. 36 points is amazing and he stepped up in the final when Crosby was being shadowed. When you have to go back to Sakic in 1996 to find the last 30+ playoff scorer that's telling. And even then Malkin was at least as good as Sakic in 1996, probably better. You want to see utter domination? Watch Malkin against the Canes in 2009. 9 points in 3 games (shut out in Game 4). It was a classic example of a player deciding to win a series just by scoring.

Well said.

I had Malkin behind Pronger (and Thomas) and, for me, here's the difference:

If you were going to name a MVP for the Penguins after each round, Malkin wouldn't win it until round three. For the first half of that playoff run, Crosby was the Pen's best player.

Pronger, on the other hand, was the best player on his team from the starting gate to the finish line. You could argue Roloson for the San Jose series, but Pronger is still 1B in that case.

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02-18-2012, 02:09 PM
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Malkin got 36 points. The second highest post lockout is Crosby's 31 points.

16% domination. That's insane.

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02-18-2012, 07:04 PM
  #18
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Well said.

I had Malkin behind Pronger (and Thomas) and, for me, here's the difference:

If you were going to name a MVP for the Penguins after each round, Malkin wouldn't win it until round three. For the first half of that playoff run, Crosby was the Pen's best player.

Pronger, on the other hand, was the best player on his team from the starting gate to the finish line. You could argue Roloson for the San Jose series, but Pronger is still 1B in that case.
Good points. Yes, Crosby was pretty much neck and neck with him after three rounds. Actually he WAS tied with him - 28 points apiece. In the final Malkin stepped it up while Crosby was shadowed and wasn't as effective.

I don't like rating Pronger ahead of Malkin though. He lost, and you have to take that into account. He did carry that team on his back, but he was pointless in 5 of 7 finals games. Yes, he is a defenseman, but if you were going to talk to your grandkids about either performance do you tell them about Malkin or Pronger?

Thomas I can see having a case over Malkin. He was the best player in every game in the final, even the ones he lost. But I wouldn't put Pronger over either of them. I think you should win a Conn Smythe to be in this discussion

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02-18-2012, 11:40 PM
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Halak's performance was overrated, imo.
Maybe by some, underating the quality of the habs defence judging only by the number of shots accorded.

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02-19-2012, 11:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Big Phil View Post
Good points. Yes, Crosby was pretty much neck and neck with him after three rounds. Actually he WAS tied with him - 28 points apiece. In the final Malkin stepped it up while Crosby was shadowed and wasn't as effective.

I don't like rating Pronger ahead of Malkin though. He lost, and you have to take that into account. He did carry that team on his back, but he was pointless in 5 of 7 finals games. Yes, he is a defenseman, but if you were going to talk to your grandkids about either performance do you tell them about Malkin or Pronger?

Thomas I can see having a case over Malkin. He was the best player in every game in the final, even the ones he lost. But I wouldn't put Pronger over either of them. I think you should win a Conn Smythe to be in this discussion
Well, I agree the Conn Smythe is a pretty critical factor but, for me, its not the be-all and end-all. Personally, I thought Pronger should have won it in a losing cause that year. In fact, if I had to chose a Cane as MVP, my choice would have been Brind'Amour, not Ward. But that's another story.

But yeah, I think I would tell my grandkids about Pronger in 2006. For starter's, how often do you see two different head-to-head match-ups featuring the best defensemen of their era in one playoff year? And Pronger significantly outplayed Lidstrom in Round One, and Niedermayer in Round Three. Led the playoffs in ice-time, led his team in scoring, etc. That was on top of power-play, penalty-killing, and shut-down duties. I'm not sure I've seen a more impressive playoff run by a defenseman since maybe Leetch in 1994.

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02-19-2012, 01:49 PM
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I think many are a bit too post-season focused sometimes. most would probably pick one of Gretzky, Orr or Lemieuxs regular season performances as their best. I think that while post season results are important, and can be a sign of greatness, they can be more skewed by small sample size and rely a lot on team strength.

I would absolutely hold 65 goals over many of the performances metioned in this thread. 9 more than anybody else has managed in any other season for that time-frame.

I would also nominate Duncan Keiths 09/10 season: Norris, most ESP by a defenceman in along time + a Conn Smythe caliber post season. This, Malkin and Thomas are probably the best complete seasons.


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02-19-2012, 03:17 PM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GuineaPig View Post
Halak's performance was overrated, imo.

Short (but great) performances I would include are Bryzgalov in 2006, and Crosby in 2010.
Crosby in 2010 was basically just him ripping apart the Sens. He was a non-factor against Montreal.

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02-19-2012, 03:20 PM
  #23
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Statistically, I nominate Thomas. Based on what my eyes told me, I nominate Pronger (06).

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02-23-2012, 10:46 PM
  #24
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Well, I agree the Conn Smythe is a pretty critical factor but, for me, its not the be-all and end-all. Personally, I thought Pronger should have won it in a losing cause that year. In fact, if I had to chose a Cane as MVP, my choice would have been Brind'Amour, not Ward. But that's another story.

But yeah, I think I would tell my grandkids about Pronger in 2006. For starter's, how often do you see two different head-to-head match-ups featuring the best defensemen of their era in one playoff year? And Pronger significantly outplayed Lidstrom in Round One, and Niedermayer in Round Three. Led the playoffs in ice-time, led his team in scoring, etc. That was on top of power-play, penalty-killing, and shut-down duties. I'm not sure I've seen a more impressive playoff run by a defenseman since maybe Leetch in 1994.
What about Stevens in 2000? This was a unanimous choice. I remember in the papers prior to Game #5 where the Devils actually lost to prolong it to a Game #6 that it was a consensus that Stevens would be the Conn Smythe winner if the Devils won. Pronger's 2006 was amazing, but it wasn't highway robbery that he didn't get it in a losing cause. Ward, Staal and BrindAmour were all fine picks ahead of him too. No one was ahead of Stevens in 2000, no one even suggested it. So for Pronger to be the best post lockout I think he needs to be a little bit more unanimous when it comes to whether people think he deserves the Smythe. I'm pretty sure Thomas wins even if he loses Game 7. Maybe Malkin too.

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