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Vancouver adding 4 liner

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02-18-2012, 04:01 PM
  #26
Bennrocks
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Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
Raymond and a 1st would be a gross overpayment. Raymond is a much better offensive player than Ott and a fantastic defensive player as well - he also never takes penalties and draws a TON of them. Ott is excellent on faceoffs and a good pest and physical presence but that's about it. His offensive production, aside from the '08-09 season have been extremely underwhelming when you look at how many minutes he plays and with good offensive players. This is a 25-30 point player in the proper role...

Raymond would garner a significant return if he's made available. There are countless teams desperate for more offense and Raymond would likely be one of the best offensive players moved around the deadline. Ott isn't the only player that will garner an overpayment to move.
No he is not, but this is what I think he would cost if Vancouvers front office were to say "we need Steve ott"

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02-18-2012, 04:02 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Bennrocks View Post
Joe asked for saad+ 2nd for Grossman from Chicago I doubt he would ask for anything less than Raymond+ 1st or schroeder/Jensen... Like I said overpayment.
I don't see how that is related to Ott. Grossman and Ott are two completely different players in two completely different situations. Also, Raymond is a proven roster player and previous 50 point scorer, not exactly comparable to a package of futures that was turned down anyway.

Raymond + NYI 4th for Ott. Seems like it could be a mutually beneficial deal.

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02-18-2012, 04:12 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Campoli2Burrows View Post
I don't see how that is related to Ott. Grossman and Ott are two completely different players in two completely different situations. Also, Raymond is a proven roster player and previous 50 point scorer, not exactly comparable to a package of futures that was turned down anyway.

Raymond + NYI 4th for Ott. Seems like it could be a mutually beneficial deal.
I think Joe is uncomfortable trading in conference was trying to point out the overpayment that would have been if grossman was dealt to the hawks.

Also ott is a fan favorite in Dallas as I previously pointed out, and while that does not make a difference from hockey stand point it does to a team struggling to maintain a fanbase in a 4 year playoff drought in a winners town, even the Cowboys are susceptible to this in Dallas and have recently taken somewhat of an attendance drop.

While I agree that deal is fairish I do not think it would get done unless we went in oiler tank mode which is not going to happen, that being said he would require gross overpayment to get him out of dallas

I hope I have laid out clearly why it would take overpayment and you see that I am not just being boneheaded about his value.

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02-18-2012, 04:26 PM
  #29
Campoli2Burrows
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Originally Posted by Bennrocks View Post
I think Joe is uncomfortable trading in conference was trying to point out the overpayment that would have been if grossman was dealt to the hawks.

Also ott is a fan favorite in Dallas as I previously pointed out, and while that does not make a difference from hockey stand point it does to a team struggling to maintain a fanbase in a 4 year playoff drought in a winners town, even the Cowboys are susceptible to this in Dallas and have recently taken somewhat of an attendance drop.

While I agree that deal is fairish I do not think it would get done unless we went in oiler tank mode which is not going to happen, that being said he would require gross overpayment to get him out of dallas

I hope I have laid out clearly why it would take overpayment and you see that I am not just being boneheaded about his value.
I think the fact that Dallas was only 6 points behind them in the standings might have more to do with that than the same conference factor, but who really knows.

I understand that fan favourites often require overpayments, assuming they're not untouchable, but once they lose their role on the team they become available for an upgrade like anyone else. As far as top 6 forwards are concerned Raymond is an upgrade on Ott.

You're definitely not being boneheaded about his value, your points have been clear and concise. It's been some good rational discussion so far and we just seem to disagree on what's best for the Stars, on which I will defer to your expertise. Who am I to say this would help Dallas

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02-18-2012, 04:51 PM
  #30
LatvianTwist
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I'd ask for a 3rd, or the NYI 4th. Yes, they're in the same conference, and I'd hate to see him 4 times this year, but still.

If we want Jensen/Schroeder added, I think we'll be saying goodbye to one of our 2nds.

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02-18-2012, 04:56 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by LatvianTwist View Post
I'd ask for a 3rd, or the NYI 4th. Yes, they're in the same conference, and I'd hate to see him 4 times this year, but still.

If we want Jensen/Schroeder added, I think we'll be saying goodbye to one of our 2nds.
yeah the 3rd/nyi 4th is probably fair value but i think they would have to literally pry ott out of joe's hands

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02-18-2012, 05:01 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Bennrocks View Post
yeah the 3rd/nyi 4th is probably fair value but i think they would have to literally pry ott out of joe's hands
I disagree. Maybe once we find a top 6 forward, then yes, but not now.

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