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[PHI/TB] Pavel Kubina for Jon Kalinski, 2nd (FLA) and '13 4th

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Old
02-19-2012, 02:51 PM
  #351
flyerfanish
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Originally Posted by Nacho Labrie View Post
Since there were 300 2nd round draft picks 1% would be 3. Lets look at the 2003 draft.

33rd overall Loui Eriksson
45th overall Patrice Bergeron
49th overall Shea Weber

Sucks for David Backes, Brandon Dubinski, David Krejci, Paul Stastny, ME Vlasic, Milan Lucic, Duncan Keith, Wayne Simmonds and many more will never amount to anything.

Oh yeah, shockingly you're wrong about the Flyers not trading any of their own picks.
Well why didnt you want a couple of our 6th/7th rounders instead? Might find the next datsyuk, zetterberg or Lundquist?

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02-19-2012, 03:31 PM
  #352
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Old
02-19-2012, 03:49 PM
  #353
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Originally Posted by bauer View Post
wait a second here, i said 2nd rounders rarely amount to anything special, not appear in the NHL. so what if a player plays in a handful of games then gets sent back down and plays the rest of his life in the minors? or becomes a career 3rd or 4th liner? or 6th/7th defenseman? i stand by what i said, 2nd round picks rarely become anything special. i did a quick look at all 2nd rounders taken from the last 10 years and you can count on one hand the number in each year that were really good.
I think you are underselling 2nd rounders a little there are more than 5 players that have turned into quite good to great players in relatively recent drafts. Starting from the 2011 draft isn't fair though since it takes a lot of players at least 3 years to reach regular NHL playing time.

Starting from players drafted in '10 going back to the 2002 draft 10 years back from the 2011 draft
Above average players drafted in the second round
Justin Faulk - 10 Some Carolina fans on here have said he is special and he is already playing an ATOI of 22:40
Ryan O'Reilly - 09
Derek Stepan - 08
PK Subban - 07
Wayne Simmonds -07
Nikolai Kulemin - 06
M. Lucic - 06
James Neal - 05
Paul Stastny - 05
Ondrej Pavelec - 05
Dave Bolland - 04
David Booth - 04
Brandon Dubinsky - 04
David Krejci - 04
Loui Eriksson - 03
Shea Weber - 03
Patrice Bergeron - 03
David Backes - 03
Jimmy Howard - 03
Tomas Fleischman - 02
Duncan Keith - 02

HM
Matthew Stajan
Alexander Goligoski
Marc-Edouard Vlasic
Others I didn't feel like looking back through the list

There are a few .5 + ppg players that aren't on this list.


Last edited by ilovetheflyers8: 02-19-2012 at 04:17 PM.
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Old
02-19-2012, 04:16 PM
  #354
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Originally Posted by ilovetheflyers8 View Post
I think you are underselling 2nd rounders a little there are more than 5 players that have turned into quite good to great players in relatively recent drafts. Starting from the 2011 draft isn't fair though since it takes a lot of players at least 3 years to reach regular NHL playing time.

Starting from players drafted in '09 going back to the 2002 draft 10 back from the 2011 draft
Above average players drafted in the second round
Ryan O'Reilly - 09
Derek Stepan - 08
PK Subban - 07
Wayne Simmonds -07
Nikolai Kulemin - 06
M. Lucic - 06
James Neal - 05
Paul Stastny - 05
Ondrej Pavelec - 05
Dave Bolland - 04
David Booth - 04
Brandon Dubinsky - 04
David Krejci - 04
Loui Eriksson - 03
Shea Weber - 03
Patrice Bergeron - 03
David Backes - 03
Jimmy Howard - 03
Tomas Fleischman - 02
Duncan Keith - 02

HM
Matthew Stajan
Alexander Goligoski

There are a few .5 ppg players that aren't on this list.
so 22 out of 240. So less than 10%. Kubina is a guaranteed RH D-man(Philly's only one) that can play 15-20 min in a top 4 role. And yes, being able to have landed such undrafted players as Read, Bobrovsky, Gus, Harry Z on the team/system helps too. And we have 11 1st rounders on the roster which helps the higher end talent.(only 3 being Flyers picks...the other thru trade!!!)

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02-19-2012, 04:20 PM
  #355
ilovetheflyers8
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Originally Posted by Tripod View Post
so 22 out of 240. So less than 10%. Kubina is a guaranteed RH D-man(Philly's only one) that can play 15-20 min in a top 4 role. And yes, being able to have landed such undrafted players as Read, Bobrovsky, Gus, Harry Z on the team/system helps too. And we have 11 1st rounders on the roster which helps the higher end talent.(only 3 being Flyers picks...the other thru trade!!!)
I wasn't saying that the Flyers getting rid of those picks was awful, I was just pointing out that the guy was underselling second rounders. There are also a bunch of other decent/average guys I left out and some you could make an argument were above average or that I just left out since I didn't know about them. It is also to early to pass judgement on guys from '09, '10, and '11. For example there is Dimitri Orlov who from what I hear seems pretty good.


Last edited by ilovetheflyers8: 02-19-2012 at 04:29 PM.
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Old
02-19-2012, 05:54 PM
  #356
bauer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nacho Labrie View Post
Since there were 300 2nd round draft picks 1% would be 3. Lets look at the 2003 draft.

33rd overall Loui Eriksson
45th overall Patrice Bergeron
49th overall Shea Weber

Sucks for David Backes, Brandon Dubinski, David Krejci, Paul Stastny, ME Vlasic, Milan Lucic, Duncan Keith, Wayne Simmonds and many more will never amount to anything.

Oh yeah, shockingly you're wrong about the Flyers not trading any of their own picks.
1% was an exaggeration. just trying to put in line all these morons that think trading away a 2nd round pick somehow equals giving up on a Crosby or Malkin.

you obviously can't read either. i didn't say NONE ever amount to anything, i said it's rare. and it is.

as for Flyers picks, the one for Grossman wasn't theirs, i wasn't sure if the Kubina one was or not, even so, it'll be a late 2nd round pick. Tampa obviously need it a lot more than the Flyers do so good for them. they'll need all the help they can get.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ilovetheflyers8 View Post
I think you are underselling 2nd rounders a little there are more than 5 players that have turned into quite good to great players in relatively recent drafts. Starting from the 2011 draft isn't fair though since it takes a lot of players at least 3 years to reach regular NHL playing time.

Starting from players drafted in '10 going back to the 2002 draft 10 years back from the 2011 draft
Above average players drafted in the second round
Justin Faulk - 10 Some Carolina fans on here have said he is special and he is already playing an ATOI of 22:40
Ryan O'Reilly - 09
Derek Stepan - 08
PK Subban - 07
Wayne Simmonds -07
Nikolai Kulemin - 06
M. Lucic - 06
James Neal - 05
Paul Stastny - 05
Ondrej Pavelec - 05
Dave Bolland - 04
David Booth - 04
Brandon Dubinsky - 04
David Krejci - 04
Loui Eriksson - 03
Shea Weber - 03
Patrice Bergeron - 03
David Backes - 03
Jimmy Howard - 03
Tomas Fleischman - 02
Duncan Keith - 02

HM
Matthew Stajan
Alexander Goligoski
Marc-Edouard Vlasic
Others I didn't feel like looking back through the list

There are a few .5 + ppg players that aren't on this list.
thanks for proving my point. so out of around the 300 or so players taken in the last decade in the 2nd round, 20 or so have been good? wow. a lot depends on the team as well, some teams have great scouting staffs, others don't, Tampa sucks at drafting.

lets take a lot at Tampa's 2nd round picks since the year 2000.

Ruslan Zainullin
Alexander Polushin
Andreas Holmqvist
Adam Henrich
Mike Egener
Matt Smaby
Mark Tobin
Dana Tyrell
Richard Panik

wow. i really hope Tampa doesn't burn Philly with that amazing pick they just got for Kubina. i'm sure they'll be able to turn it into a player just as good as those superstars listed above. in fact, i don't believe Tampa has ever drafted a player in the 2nd round that amounted to anything.

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Old
02-19-2012, 06:21 PM
  #357
Going Back to Cally
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bauer View Post
1% was an exaggeration. just trying to put in line all these morons that think trading away a 2nd round pick somehow equals giving up on a Crosby or Malkin.

you obviously can't read either. i didn't say NONE ever amount to anything, i said it's rare. and it is.

as for Flyers picks, the one for Grossman wasn't theirs, i wasn't sure if the Kubina one was or not, even so, it'll be a late 2nd round pick. Tampa obviously need it a lot more than the Flyers do so good for them. they'll need all the help they can get.
An exaggeration? Fair enough, sometimes it's hard to tell with the quality of posts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bauer View Post

thanks for proving my point. so out of around the 300 or so players taken in the last decade in the 2nd round, 20 or so have been good? wow. a lot depends on the team as well, some teams have great scouting staffs, others don't, Tampa sucks at drafting.

lets take a lot at Tampa's 2nd round picks since the year 2000.

Ruslan Zainullin
Alexander Polushin
Andreas Holmqvist
Adam Henrich
Mike Egener
Matt Smaby
Mark Tobin
Dana Tyrell
Richard Panik

wow. i really hope Tampa doesn't burn Philly with that amazing pick they just got for Kubina. i'm sure they'll be able to turn it into a player just as good as those superstars listed above. in fact, i don't believe Tampa has ever drafted a player in the 2nd round that amounted to anything.
What do all of those players have in common? All selected under a different ownership, different GM and an entirely different set of scouts. Using that logic is like saying Boston has bad goaltending because their goaltenders from 1998-2001 were Dafoe, Skudra and Grahame.

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Old
02-19-2012, 06:31 PM
  #358
bauer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nacho Labrie View Post
An exaggeration? Fair enough, sometimes it's hard to tell with the quality of posts.


What do all of those players have in common? All selected under a different ownership, different GM and an entirely different set of scouts. Using that logic is like saying Boston has bad goaltending because their goaltenders from 1998-2001 were Dafoe, Skudra and Grahame.
true. i'll give you that. maybe Yzerman can turn things around for them.

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Old
02-19-2012, 08:05 PM
  #359
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Originally Posted by bringthecuphome View Post
Hope the bar is set high for Schenn.
Is carter high?

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