Well, St-Louis won the Art Ross. It's not good enough for you? Richards the Conn Smythe. And Lecavalier is probably the best player under 25 years old, except for maybe Kovalchuk. While Khabibulin is a concensus top 10 goalie, even top 5 when he's hot, and last year, we was very hot.
If those players are not superstars, they are the next best thing, that's for sure.
each year there are a Art Ross and a Conn Smythe recipient, but how many time there is a Gretsky or a Lemieux in the draft ?
as i said , i am still not covince that one of the Tampa's players you named is going to be to the hall of fame...
make the difference betwen skilled, good , star and superstar players
Saying Crosby will be sick is like me saying Crosby will become a bust....
Either way, I would take my chances with 5+ prospects or current players then put all my hopes and all my team's hopes on 1 player to continue getting better and become a sick player.
1st r. (2005)
2nd r. (2005)
Ribeiro
Kostitsyn
Hossa
Korneev
Possible lineup in three years with status quo (no Bonk):
Zednik Koivu Kostitsyn
Higgins Ribeiro Perezhogin
Bulis Chipchura Ryder
Hossa Plekanec Ward
Latendresse or whomever is picked in 2005 waiting in the wings
Komo Souray
Markov Rivet
Hainsey O'Byrne/Korneev
Theo
Danis
Possible lineup with Crosby deal in 2007-08:
Zednik Koivu Perezhogin
Higgins Crosby Ryder
Bulis Chipchura Ward
Begin Plekanec Milroy/Ivanans type
Will the 21-year-old Crosby be more productive than a 27-year-old Ribeiro? Probably, but it depends on a lot of circumstances, including linemates/teammates.
I like the depth of the first lineup three years from now - four solid lines, and a good mixture of veterans and youth. It's evident that the team would be stronger in three years if the deal wasn't made. I'm not sure that would be the case six year from now, however, when Crosby will more than likely be the dominant scorer in the league.
Still, what if the Habs get a Latendresse type with the 18th pick in 2005 and he turns into a solid power forward, Ribeiro becomes a 90-point scorer, Kostitsyn develops into a 40-goal sniper, Hossa reaches his potential and Korneev is the next Markov? Would one potential 130-point scorer (or whatever Sid becomes) be worth taking the chance on five solid players?
This is a moot question - the team that gets the first selection in the next draft will not entertain any offer to deal Crosby, particularly if there is a new rule put in place restricting rookie bonuses, and that team is Pittsburgh.
That trade offer is a laugh... way too much for an unproven player.... alot of players have scored tons in Junior but were busts as pros... Doug Wickenheiser ring any bells folks
Ok then. well tell me this. If we don`t load up and trade for a top pick, who the hell is going to offensively lead our team to glory for the next 12 years? We have a pretty young nucleus that is going to be in town in about 2 seasons. Who is going to be the big gun that every one can rely on? Because by drafting at 18 or 20 every year, we are going to have trouble picking a franchise guy at that position. And if you think it will be Koivu... he`s good and all. But I still don`t see him being the top dog on a cup contender year after year unless Theodore wins the Vezina and hart Memorial year in year out. We don`t have a Sakic. Where are we going to get one?
Possible lineup in three years with status quo (no Bonk):
Zednik Koivu Kostitsyn
Higgins Ribeiro Perezhogin
Bulis Chipchura Ryder
Hossa Plekanec Ward Latendresse or whomever is picked in 2005 waiting in the wings
Komo Souray
Markov Rivet
Hainsey O'Byrne/Korneev
Theo
Danis
Keep dreaming man. Latendresse would be great and all. Except he is projected as a top 5 pick. We are likely going to draft in the 18th area. So unless we trade up we won`t get our hands on such a handsome prospect.
Ok then. well tell me this. If we don`t load up and trade for a top pick, who the hell is going to offensively lead our team to glory for the next 12 years? We have a pretty young nucleus that is going to be in town in about 2 seasons. Who is going to be the big gun that every one can rely on? Because by drafting at 18 or 20 every year, we are going to have trouble picking a franchise guy at that position. And if you think it will be Koivu... he`s good and all. But I still don`t see him being the top dog on a cup contender year after year unless Theodore wins the Vezina and hart Memorial year in year out. We don`t have a Sakic. Where are we going to get one?
just to be curious , how many goals do you think that Crosby is going to score , (average /year ? )
to answer to your question about who 's going to offensively lead our team , i can tell you that it won't be a single guy but the addition of players like Kost, Perez, Higgins ,Ribeiro, Ryder, Koivu (for 4-5 seasons ) and Zednik.You can add some names that are still to far from the nhl or 3 th liners, but that can have also an offensive impact.I think to the Chipchura ,Plekanec,Urqhart ,Milroy ,Grabovsky, etc
To that you can also add some free agents, like Vincent Lecavalier who have always expressed that his dream is to play for the canadians...
Last edited by goalchenyuk: 10-31-2004 at 08:34 AM.
Keep dreaming man. Latendresse would be great and all. Except he is projected as a top 5 pick. We are likely going to draft in the 18th area. So unless we trade up we won`t get our hands on such a handsome prospect.
Did you bother reading my post, or were you just looking to nitpick? First of all I said Latrendresse OR whomever they pick.
Then, later on I added this: "Still, what if the Habs get a Latendresse type with the 18th pick in 2005....."
How in the name of Sheldon Kannegeiser does this imply that I feel the Habs are a lock to to get Latendresse with the 18th pick? I fully expect him to go in the top ten; I merely used him as an example of the type of player I'd like the Habs to get from the draft. Bobby Ryan is the other guy I'd like the Habs to get a crack at, but he's gonna be gone before 18th overall as well. Still, it doesn't mean that there's not going to be some excellent forwards after those two in a draft full of intriguing forward prospects.
Let's say Kindl, Johnson, Anikeenko, Levasseur, Rask, Paquet, and Lashoff are picked in the top 17 selections. Add Crosby, Latendresse and Brule as the forwards that are guranteed to go before the Habs pick
Add in a surprise or two in the top 17 (like Phoenix taking Wheeler 5th last year), and perhaps another goalie like Price or d-man like Laakso and perhaps the Habs will get a shot at a Ryan or O'Marra, although I'm not counting on it. Blunden would be a more realistic choice if the Habs go after size up front like they did last year with Chipchura.
Bourret would be a popular player in Montreal I think (reminds me a bit of the Rocket -please; no one accuse me of comparing him to the Rocket now -), but the way he's scoring, I suspect he'll be a top 15 pick at least.
Ok then. well tell me this. If we don`t load up and trade for a top pick, who the hell is going to offensively lead our team to glory for the next 12 years? We have a pretty young nucleus that is going to be in town in about 2 seasons. Who is going to be the big gun that every one can rely on? Because by drafting at 18 or 20 every year, we are going to have trouble picking a franchise guy at that position. And if you think it will be Koivu... he`s good and all. But I still don`t see him being the top dog on a cup contender year after year unless Theodore wins the Vezina and hart Memorial year in year out. We don`t have a Sakic. Where are we going to get one?
The team is gonna lead itself...we have the talent to score
( Kostitsyn,Perezhogin,Zednik,Ryder) ...we have the passing talent ( Kost, Ribeiro, Koivu and Perezhogin) we have the defense (Markov,Souray,Komisarek,Rivet) and we have the goaltender..(Theodore) you don't only need one guy + we can sign a UFA with the likes of Alexei KOVALEV...and don't tell me he wasn't playing like a franchise player in the playoffs..he lead our team against Boston... there are also plenty of free agents who would want to come to a young team contending for the cup.
Kovalev is 31 and counting and who knows how old he'll be when the NHL comes back again. Free agent very rarely come in and suddenly lead a team to the Stanley Cup as the star player. In fact, I can't think of one. Shanahan only supported what was already there and he came in by trade. Dido for guys like hasek and Nieuwendyk who were instrumental in other cup triumphs as well.
To have a contender year after year after year you have to have a top go to guy year after year after year. If the team is ultra young, why not have its star also be young and grow up with them and stay in the organization for 20 years.
Lecavalier is a young 24. It will take 7 years under the prior system for him to become a UFA... say 5 or 6 years once the new CBA is signed. So if you want to keep waiting a half decade or more before landing a leading man...
Kovalev is 31 and counting and who knows how old he'll be when the NHL comes back again. Free agent very rarely come in and suddenly lead a team to the Stanley Cup as the star player. In fact, I can't think of one. Shanahan only supported what was already there and he came in by trade. Dido for guys like hasek and Nieuwendyk who were instrumental in other cup triumphs as well.
To have a contender year after year after year you have to have a top go to guy year after year after year. If the team is ultra young, why not have its star also be young and grow up with them and stay in the organization for 20 years.
Lecavalier is a young 24. It will take 7 years under the prior system for him to become a UFA... say 5 or 6 years once the new CBA is signed. So if you want to keep waiting a half decade or more before landing a leading man...
Is Crosby the only one leading man in the entires junior or americain teams ?
the Canadians are suppose to have one of the best youngsters farm ; they already exist future leaders .Hockey is a team sport ; you don't destroy a well balanced group of prospects ,to trade for one player.
Is Crosby the only one leading man in the entires junior or americain teams ?
the Canadians are suppose to have one of the best youngsters farm ; they already exist future leaders .Hockey is a team sport ; you don't destroy a well balanced group of prospects ,to trade for one player.
it's not like we will keep them all nor that they will all develop.
Is Crosby the only one leading man in the entires junior or americain teams ?
the Canadians are suppose to have one of the best youngsters farm ; they already exist future leaders .Hockey is a team sport ; you don't destroy a well balanced group of prospects ,to trade for one player.
We have like TWENTY prospects-young players at the forward position. How will they all play for us? We have Koivu right? Gotta keep him. What other centers are coming up? Plekanec, Ribeiro, Higgins, Locke, Urquhart, Chipchura, etc...
WE DON't HAVE ROOM for them all. If you actualy loook at the trade I proposed, I merely traded 2 or 3 good young players. We only have about 30 guys in the organization who are progressing well.
WE wouldn't be "destroying" anything. Look at all the guys left!
We have like TWENTY prospects-young players at the forward position. How will they all play for us? We have Koivu right? Gotta keep him. What other centers are coming up? Plekanec, Ribeiro, Higgins, Locke, Urquhart, Chipchura, etc...
WE DON't HAVE ROOM for them all. If you actualy loook at the trade I proposed, I merely traded 2 or 3 good young players. We only have about 30 guys in the organization who are progressing well.
WE wouldn't be "destroying" anything. Look at all the guys left!
All the centers you've listed, except Ribeiro, have already played as wingers in their career. In my honest opinion, you never have enough prospects. You never know who's gonna bust and who doesn't. If it happens that all our prospect develops well (which is, very unlikely, I'd even say impossible), then we could trade a package for a better player, but this day hasn't come yet.
u don't know how good or bad sidney will be so this is all about gambling..I am not willing to gamble the future of my organization on 1 player and hope he becomes sick but rather gamble with 5 guys and hope 2-3 become great
All the centers you've listed, except Ribeiro, have already played as wingers in their career. In my honest opinion, you never have enough prospects. You never know who's gonna bust and who doesn't. If it happens that all our prospect develops well (which is, very unlikely, I'd even say impossible), then we could trade a package for a better player, but this day hasn't come yet.
exactly.. what is the average of prospect that finally play on a regular basis in the nhl ? i think it's 1.5 or 2 players / year draft.
by now we have a lot of them that are going well in their different league but how many of them are going to be impact players for the Canadians ? Giving 4-5 of them to get one guy is something crazy.
Personally, I would love to get Crosby in a Habs Jersey, but like Saku K. said earlier, we would have to pay through the nose to get this guy. He is a very special player, even if a few who've posted think he's not as good as some established NHL stars. You can't compare him to Daigle, not even Daigle was as hyped as this guy. You have to go back to Eric Lindros for a player hyped this much. I think he's the real deal, but I don't think BG will trade away the number of players needed to make a deal work. I think we desperately need a power forward, so maybe BG can put together a decent package and get a Brule Or Latredresse(sp?), I don't think it would be quite as expensive as getting Crosby. We also need a big puck moving defenceman, IMHO, maybe we can try for one of those too.
We can beat this thread to death for a week, but the simple matter is if we want Crosby, be prepared to pay for it, big time.
All the centers you've listed, except Ribeiro, have already played as wingers in their career.
.
Show me when Locke, Chipchura and Plekanec have played wing on a regular basis in their career. And Chipchura on the wing on the power play does not count.
Quote:
Originally Posted by markov`
You never know who's gonna bust and who doesn't. If it happens that all our prospect develops well (which is, very unlikely, I'd even say impossible), then we could trade a package for a better player, but this day hasn't come yet.
Exactly. Some will bust. If we trade Korneev and hossa and Kostitsyn... chances are one is going to bust anyways. So we are going to be trading a future and getting something great in return. And the chances of Crosby being a bust are far far infintly far smaller than Kostitsyn being a bust. For one thing, Kostitsyn doesn`t seem to pass in the offensive zone based on Sunday`s game.
18th overall (2005)
48th overall (2nd r., 2005)
Ribeiro
Kostitsyn
Marcel Hossa
and Komisarek
for the first overall pick?
That is asking for alot. And I am the one who came up with that proposal with Korneev instead of Komisarek. I don`t know about that. You can have the 2 picks and Hossa. I am happy to move those to get Crosby. But moving three great young players like Ribeiro and Kostitsyn and Komisarek is really pushing it.
In there you have 4 players who seem to be on track to making it as good NHLers. You have 4 1st round draft (the 18th, 10th, 18thish, 7th) picks and 2 2nd round. And one of those second round picks (Ribeiro) was our leading point get-er last winter.
I don`t know. I would have to think about it for a while but Even if this was offered by Patrick himself on Draft for Crosby, I would find it a little bit greedy.
Not for Heatley? Iginla? Kovalchuk? Nash? Thornton? Hejduk? And so on..
Not saying that these teams would part with these players for Komisarek, but you have to give to get....
Given age, talent and salary...
The only players on the planet I would even consider such a package are Crosby, Kovalchuck and Ovechkin. And I am not too sure about Ovechkin actualy.
Trading Ribeiro + Komisarek + Kostitsyn + 3 more good pieces for one player is monster. In fact if they all turn out as expected, that may be more than Philly paid for Lindros.
