As a total for his points, he's down about 25% from his usual PPG pace. However, he's been tearing it up since he got over his slump. His rough start really set him back to a point where it was almost impossible to match PPG.
So the season as a whole is below his usual standard, but his play in the majority of games this season HAS been great. I think he's done a great job, I really do. He's playing excellent defensively against top units and his line continually puts up points. I can't ask for much more.
Also, as people are tired of me saying, when the team overall is scoring at a high pace it's not overly important Zetterberg match career marks. It's more important the team hits above average, not just our stars. But I don't mean the hash out that debate again.
sure i can agree with those notions as well. That's why i don participate in this Z love hate fest. It can go either way
yet, people make a big deal out of it. and they always have to be right. That's the problem.
exaggeration is another problem but will get to this another time.
As a total for his points, he's down about 25% from his usual PPG pace. However, he's been tearing it up since he got over his slump. His rough start really set him back to a point where it was almost impossible to match PPG.
Just curious, but I think you just described Hudler's season last year. A slow start, but then his final 43 games he performed at a career high pace. I defended him, but most wanted him run out of town for his "pathetic" 37-point season. It's just ironic.
i think it is excessive to say rafalski was a liability.
The man was such a turnover machine, he made me want to grab a gun on numerous occasions.
Garl: there was no "guarantee" with Hasek, Hull, Robitaille, Shanahan, etc. This is sports, there is never "guarantee." There is no guarantee that the Zett / Nash swap wins us the Cup. But saying that Nash in a few years will be a drastically better player than Zett is as close to a "guarantee" as I can give you.
Coming to think of it, I cannot name ONE player that would come to Detroit and turned out to be a complete flop (other than Conklin). Hell, even those who were written off, like Draper, Murphy, and Macoun, became solid-or-better players. DRW has a tendency to bring out the best in people. In a way, they are the opposite of NYR.
The man was such a turnover machine, he made me want to grab a gun on numerous occasions.
Garl: there was no "guarantee" with Hasek, Hull, Robitaille, Shanahan, etc. This is sports, there is never "guarantee." There is no guarantee that the Zett / Nash swap wins us the Cup. But saying that Nash in a few years will be a drastically better player than Zett is as close to a "guarantee" as I can give you.
Coming to think of it, I cannot name ONE player that would come to Detroit and turned out to be a complete flop (other than Conklin). Hell, even those who were written off, like Draper, Murphy, and Macoun, became solid-or-better players. DRW has a tendency to bring out the best in people. In a way, they are the opposite of NYR.
We are talking about trading Zetterberg for Nash. Not just signing Nash like in case with those guys. Risk is much bigger.
As for Nash will be better than Z in few years, it;s definately not a guarantee, Z is having an off season, but just last year he was №9 in overall scoring in the league. You have given up on him admireable fast.
Ironically, guy says Zetterberg needs to hit 07-08 numbers to be worth his money. Meanwhile, Nash has never been at Zetterberg's 07-08 level and has an even worse season than Zetterberg and his cap hit is 1.7 million higher.
To get Hasek we gave up a proven sniper in Kozlov and to get Shanny we gave up Coffee and Primeau. There were no "guarantees" there.
True, Nash never reached Z's peak numbers, but come on: this is Columbus we are talking! Not having Datsyuk by your side. Being in DRW would make him eclipse his career peak, there is no doubt in my mind. Too bad this will never happen.
To get Hasek we gave up a proven sniper in Kozlov and to get Shanny we gave up Coffee and Primeau. There were no "guarantees" there.
True, Nash never reached Z's peak numbers, but come on: this is Columbus we are talking! Not having Datsyuk by your side. Being in DRW would make him eclipse his career peak, there is no doubt in my mind. Too bad this will never happen.
If i remember correctly, Zetterberg centers his own line. He even has his own PP unit... Not until the last couple of games was paired up with Datsyuk. Was nice to see, but I doubt will see that too often again.
To get Hasek we gave up a proven sniper in Kozlov and to get Shanny we gave up Coffee and Primeau. There were no "guarantees" there.
True, Nash never reached Z's peak numbers, but come on: this is Columbus we are talking! Not having Datsyuk by your side. Being in DRW would make him eclipse his career peak, there is no doubt in my mind. Too bad this will never happen.
Really? Hasek for Kozlov is comparable to Nash for Zetterberg? In what universe? Hasek was undisputed top goalie in the World at the time and Kozlov was a 0,5 PPG player for several seasons.
Now, Z's stats are better than Nash because of Datsyuk? They usually play on different lines and when they play together, they both play better not just Zetterberg. I understand that Datsyuk-love is the trend now, but you took it too far.
I still think you look to trade Zee while he has relative value. 31-year olds with chronic back issues aren't the kind of guys I want signed for 9 more years at $6.1M. If we lacked leadership, then you suck it up and tolerate his declining production. But our roster is full of leaders. So if you can add a younger star or top prospect I think you have to consider it.
Like why not trade Zee and Kindl to the Oilers for their #1 this summer? They get a star to mentor these kids, and let them worry about Zee at age 37,38,39,40. We get a lotto pick. Then turn around and sign Parise.
Parise + a lotto pick >>> Zee
Could have done the same thing last summer with Brad Richards. Sign him. Then trade Fil or Zee in a Burns package.
Richards + Burns >>> Fil/Zee + #1 + top prospect
Don't understand why we don't pursue deals like that.
I still think you look to trade Zee while he has relative value. 31-year olds with chronic back issues aren't the kind of guys I want signed for 9 more years at $6.1M. If we lacked leadership, then you suck it up and tolerate his declining production. But our roster is full of leaders. So if you can add a younger star or top prospect I think you have to consider it.
Like why not trade Zee and Kindl to the Oilers for their #1 this summer? They get a star to mentor these kids, and let them worry about Zee at age 37,38,39,40. We get a lotto pick. Then turn around and sign Parise.
Parise + a lotto pick >>> Zee
Could have done the same thing last summer with Brad Richards. Sign him. Then trade Fil or Zee in a Burns package.
Richards + Burns >>> Fil/Zee + #1 + top prospect
Don't understand why we don't pursue deals like that.
Well. The "chronic back pain" has 16 points in the last 12 games. 2nd in points on the team. 2nd in assists on the team. Split second in even strength points. Played the most games on the team this season(with Franzén, Kronwall, Abdelkader).
And, the future captain on the team. Never. Going. To. Happen.
I wonder why the "fan police" refuse to consider that maybe some of us want to see this team do better than lose in round 2?
I think the 'fan police' might think that wanting to see the Wings get past the second round every year and then throwing bombs at the players, staff and front office when they don't do that might indicate someone who is just looking for an excuse to throw bombs at an incredibly successful franchise rather than someone who actually cares about how the team really does.
Quote:
But you guys are responding to that sort of nonsense with your own nonsense... this BS about loyalty and how we should be happy to have all these guys.
Enh. I think there is a pretty clear and pretty well-defined group of people who regularly post here who have an overly pessimistic view regarding the team and who have had that view in some cases for years and years.
I don't know if that's cause enough to not be considered a 'fan' or not... but I do think it's cause to consider many of those people, at best, poor ones.
As far as the 'can we stop the 'hate' on Z', I think it's germain to note that Zetterberg is on pace for the fewest goals per game of his career, the 3rd or 4th fewest assists per game of his career, and the statistical slide which has already been illustrated that has covered the past 3-5 years is still completely on track.
I'm just as concerned about the next three years of Z's play as I was three weeks ago. I'm glad he's elevated his play from where it was the first three months of the season, but that doesn't make me any less aware of the track he's been on.
Zetterberg contract will be very very attractive to cap floor teams at those last 2 seasons.
He is earning 1 million, but the caphit is 6.1 million. Some team with financial problems will trade for him with open hands.
I think there's about a 1% chance Zetterberg is going to play hockey in NA at age 40 for 1 million dollars a year. I think there's maybe a 30% chance he plays hockey in NA for 3.35 mil as a 38 year old.
Assuming he even stays in Detroit for the duration of the deal, his last 7 mil season is just about definitely going to be his last as a Red Wing.
Really? Hasek for Kozlov is comparable to Nash for Zetterberg? In what universe? Hasek was undisputed top goalie in the World at the time and Kozlov was a 0,5 PPG player for several seasons.
Now, Z's stats are better than Nash because of Datsyuk? They usually play on different lines and when they play together, they both play better not just Zetterberg. I understand that Datsyuk-love is the trend now, but you took it too far.
Zetterberg's peaknumbers (as sentinel specified) are better than Nash's peak numbers in part because of Datsyuk. That's not even disputable. You must have a very short memory to have forgotten the "euro-twins" years.
I still think you look to trade Zee while he has relative value. 31-year olds with chronic back issues aren't the kind of guys I want signed for 9 more years at $6.1M. If we lacked leadership, then you suck it up and tolerate his declining production. But our roster is full of leaders. So if you can add a younger star or top prospect I think you have to consider it.
Like why not trade Zee and Kindl to the Oilers for their #1 this summer? They get a star to mentor these kids, and let them worry about Zee at age 37,38,39,40. We get a lotto pick. Then turn around and sign Parise.
Parise + a lotto pick >>> Zee
Could have done the same thing last summer with Brad Richards. Sign him. Then trade Fil or Zee in a Burns package.
Richards + Burns >>> Fil/Zee + #1 + top prospect
Don't understand why we don't pursue deals like that.
There is merit in this kind of thinking. On the other hand the loyalty path DRW has taken has also some merit.
Maybe he won't play and is sidelined like Marc Savard because of his chronic back problems. Somebody could still trade for that contract because of the beneficial cap-numbers. You never know. He can be sidelined for years and retire as a Wing by signing a 1-game contract like Forsberg did. You never know.
I still think you look to trade Zee while he has relative value. 31-year olds with chronic back issues aren't the kind of guys I want signed for 9 more years at $6.1M. If we lacked leadership, then you suck it up and tolerate his declining production. But our roster is full of leaders. So if you can add a younger star or top prospect I think you have to consider it.
Like why not trade Zee and Kindl to the Oilers for their #1 this summer? They get a star to mentor these kids, and let them worry about Zee at age 37,38,39,40. We get a lotto pick. Then turn around and sign Parise.
Parise + a lotto pick >>> Zee
Could have done the same thing last summer with Brad Richards. Sign him. Then trade Fil or Zee in a Burns package.
Richards + Burns >>> Fil/Zee + #1 + top prospect
Don't understand why we don't pursue deals like that.
If the Oil have a top 5 pick, and Z could bring that kind of return, I would trade him in a heartbeat. I would love to pick up Galchenyuk.
Anybody who thinks Z will be traded is smoking something way better than me. He's a Wing for life, just like #5.
He will wear the C next and it also stuns me that people have turned on him this quickly. Trade him for an unproven draft pick or an overrated Rick Nash, wow people
Also for all the hand-ringing about his health, does he actually strike anyone as a guy who will hurt the team to hang on? If it does get much worse in his mid-thirties, I think he will go the Rafalski route. His contract even allows him to walk away in the later years without much personal financial loss, not that Zetterberg strikes me as the kind of guy that is overly concerned by that.
I wonder why the "fan police" refuse to consider that maybe some of us want to see this team do better than lose in round 2?
So far, I don't see where our improvement has been... right now, it's just regular season stuff.
Go back to before the 01-02 cup.. Holland got Hasek, Hull and Robitaille.
Go back to the 08 cup, Holland let Lang, Whitney and Schneider go and traded Williams. He picked up Stuart and Rafalski.
It doesn't make you less of fan because you believe change can help your team.
Does that mean I want Zetterberg traded? Hell no.
But you guys are responding to that sort of nonsense with your own nonsense... this BS about loyalty and how we should be happy to have all these guys.
Quote:
Originally Posted by killbuttman
So to summarize from all the people who are much "better" fans than me...
Zee is the face of the franchise. He has earned the right to stay. Even if we could swap him for a superstar, we should resist that urge and hang on to him until his contract expires.
So could all of you people lecturing me on "loyalty" please share the list of Red Wing players that we are ALLOWED to trade? I mean if trading Zee for Nash is considered such a sin, then I assume Lidstrom, Homer, Pav, Mule, Kronwall are all off limits too. So who are we allowed to trade? Seriously, give me the list of players that we are allowed to suggest in a trade without being lectured on loyalty or called less of a fan. Let me guess...Kindl, Ericsson, Hudler, Emmerton. Just want to know which names are allowed. Thanks fan police.
You guys are right about "loyalty is bs" ONLY if managing a hockey team is as simple as just looking at statistics/numbers on papers. Everyone can be a GM if it's simply checking which player on ur roster is underperforming and trade them before they lose value or even waive them and pick up someone else. That's called FANTASY hockey.
You guys seem to lack any perception of the culture in the DRW organization and respect for those who have done so much for the organization. Loyalty is what makes DRW a respected team/organization in the NHL. Players want to come to detroit not only because of the winning tradition but also because of the support and respect that they get from the team management.
Trading away Zee, who has played such a huge role in helping us won a cup (Remember who completely shut down Crosby in 08??????) and remain an elite team for the years that he has been in the team, is simply blowing up the culture that the red wings has been praised for years and scaring away others who might want to play for detroit. Now we would have a team that doesn't care what you have done and would kick you out whenever they think you are underperforming or losing value. So we no longer support our players? It's gonna change the team/locker room environment forever because it would tell people that the red wings is a team that is more than willing to throw anyone under the bus anytime. Is that what we want to see the red wings become? Who would want to play for such a team? We might as well trade away Lidstrom before we lose him for nothing if that's what you guys want.
