Wow. You called it. Zetterberg IS an overpaid waste of Red Wing space. I bet the Red Wings would do well to higher you for one of their scouts, or better yet, somebody who can run the team. Could you be the GM?
Seriously. He's having a bad year (hello...Datsyuk's 70 point season...since everybody is obsessed with numbers, there you go). So what if he's a 70-80 (omg he's only been over 80+ points 3 whole times his entire career... he's a bust) point guy. You know how hard it is to find a center that puts up 70-80 points and play a two way game effectively? You can down play his defense all you want, but he's right up there with Pavel. Maybe not as good, but he's still one of the best 2-way forwards in the game, defensively.
It's the same old "omg he's not scoring so let's trade him now so we can get the next up and comming thing that is Parise yes omg yes right now that should be the Red Wings evil plan maybe a three way trade to get Suter maybe not there's gotta be some dumb GM's out there so we can get both hahahahaha Go Red Wings *insert player* sucks" mentallity.
When next season rolls around, and Zetterberg is having a typical season (too many ranges...could be 80, could be 70, could be 90...who the eff knows...you would probably say 70 just to be negative) people will be singing a different tune. What have you done for me lately? Yea, I think so.
As far as his face offs. I'll say it again. He should be a winger!!! He's not a natural center. He's a pretty good center, but the guy is a sniper at heart... He needs a friggin set up man. Zetterberg has a great shot, and should be set up no questions asked. That's my opinion any way.
Sorry dude but HD is completely right on this one.
Zetterberg signed a long term deal at a 6 million cap hit that pays him like 60 million in its first 7 or 8 years because he was playing like a top 5 forward in the NHL, and I'm pretty sure it was thought he would continue to play like a top 5-10 forward for the first 6 years of that deal.
At this stage of the game I don't even know if he is a top 20 forward in the NHL. He is still a good player and has his place on the team, but what HD is saying is correct in that we may have to start showing some real concern because he is declining in almost every category in which he was once so dominant.
Now he does have the playoffs this year to show that he is still a beast come then, but if his numbers in the playoffs start to show decline, then you might need to start wondering maybe he just really is on the decline, and if he is you start to get worried because he still have like 9 years left at a 6 million cap hit.
Zetterberg is still a good 2 way forward, but he is no where near elite anymore,
watch this play in game 7 against the sharks last year. The Zetterberg that was dominant at his own end of the rink would never have committed such an error before in such an important game,
Also, he is no longer a sniper, he no longer has the wheels to consistently get himself into good scoring positions, and thus you have seen his shooting percent decline drastically for the past 3 seasons and as HD has pointed out, his goal totals have declined each of the past 3 seasons.
Z is still a good player, and if he has a good playoffs i don't think many will question that he earned his cap hit or not this season, but if he doesn't, and his play continues to decline next season, HD and others have every justification to be worried about his overall play in relation to his cap hit. Doesn't mean zetterberg sucks, but doesn't mean you can't be a bit concerned for the long term implications of how it effects our team as well.
Thanks for the information captain obvious? My point was he has such a range in his career that is hard to point where his target is. Is he a 70 point guy. 70 point guy. 60 guy? I just 90 in there because it was his highest... But that is obviously a mistake because people just cherry pick the post and make posts like this.
May as well have said Zetterberg will never hit 100 points.
Sorry dude but HD is completely right on this one.
Zetterberg signed a long term deal at a 6 million cap hit that pays him like 60 million in its first 7 or 8 years because he was playing like a top 5 forward in the NHL, and I'm pretty sure it was thought he would continue to play like a top 5-10 forward for the first 6 years of that deal.
At this stage of the game I don't even know if he is a top 20 forward in the NHL. He is still a good player and has his place on the team, but what HD is saying is correct in that we may have to start showing some real concern because he is declining in almost every category in which he was once so dominant.
Now he does have the playoffs this year to show that he is still a beast come then, but if his numbers in the playoffs start to show decline, then you might need to start wondering maybe he just really is on the decline, and if he is you start to get worried because he still have like 9 years left at a 6 million cap hit.
Zetterberg is still a good 2 way forward, but he is no where near elite anymore,
watch this play in game 7 against the sharks last year. The Zetterberg that was dominant at his own end of the rink would never have committed such an error before in such an important game,
Also, he is no longer a sniper, he no longer has the wheels to consistently get himself into good scoring positions, and thus you have seen his shooting percent decline drastically for the past 3 seasons and as HD has pointed out, his goal totals have declined each of the past 3 seasons.
Z is still a good player, and if he has a good playoffs i don't think many will question that he earned his cap hit or not this season, but if he doesn't, and his play continues to decline next season, HD and others have every justification to be worried about his overall play in relation to his cap hit. Doesn't mean zetterberg sucks, but doesn't mean you can't be a bit concerned for the long term implications of how it effects our team as well.
No where near elite? That's funny because if you read Canuck forums...He's elite. Blues Forums. He's elite. Chicago Forums...Elite. Nashville...Elite... Penguins...Elite... You get the point.
Is he as good as he was 2 years ago? No. Was he slumping? Yes. But only in the eyes of the Red Wings fans is Zetterberg as waste of cap space, and only considered a decent to good player.
I'm done arguing this. YOu guys can go ahread and think Zetterberg is just a player wasting into a turd. Maybe next year he'll barely pop 10 goals and 20 assist! That should be enough for your guys' egos!
No where near elite? That's funny because if you read Canuck forums...He's elite. Blues Forums. He's elite. Chicago Forums...Elite. Nashville...Elite... Penguins...Elite... You get the point.
Malkin, Toews, Hossa, Datsyuk, Giroux, Stamkos, the Sedins, and more I can't think of rihgt now.
There are too many players ahead of him that I'd rather have. Say what you will about his cap hit and his salary, but elite is on its own scale. Is he one of the best players in the league? Not even amongst just forwards. Sorry.
But, but are you sure you want the Swedish Chris Drury
Listen. Donīt ever mention Druryīs name in the same sentence as Z. Drury was payed alot more and didnīt produce. I would have rather payed Z that 7 mil/season.
I was so happy when we got Drury and Gomez in that deal Sather did a couple of years ago. Guess how i feel about it now?
That whole deal sank the Rangers for so long. Nothing bad about Chris, he just isnīt anyway near as good as Z is (was).
In my mind Z is still a star. Not maybe a superstar. But still a star. He may not produce like he did before. But he still can make some pretty good plays. And i DO think that he will increase heīs numbers. I donīt think he is finished. Not at all. Noway!
Also. I think he has good leadership abilities (from what i have seen from your games). He was trained by Yzerman and Lidstrom. How can you be a bad leader after soaking up eveything they say to you?
As i said...donīt want him? Give Sather a call. I wanīt him! Spoiled little red wings brats....hey i kiiiiid....i kiiiiid. (donīt flame me for my last sentence...i come in peace and humour).
Zetterberg signed a long term deal at a 6 million cap hit that pays him like 60 million in its first 7 or 8 years because he was playing like a top 5 forward in the NHL, and I'm pretty sure it was thought he would continue to play like a top 5-10 forward for the first 6 years of that deal.
At this stage of the game I don't even know if he is a top 20 forward in the NHL.
That's funny. Zetterberg's caphit isn't even in the Top25 of NHL forwards.
So, could somebody tell me what the problem actually is?
Malkin, Toews, Hossa, Datsyuk, Giroux, Stamkos, the Sedins, and more I can't think of rihgt now.
There are too many players ahead of him that I'd rather have. Say what you will about his cap hit and his salary, but elite is on its own scale. Is he one of the best players in the league? Not even amongst just forwards. Sorry.
There are a lot of forwards ahead of Z on the Best Of scale, unfortunately. Used to be an actual debate who was better, Pav or Z?
No debate anymore, hasnt been in years. But lets look at comparable caphits at forward (i dont care how much a player is making in actual salary, it means nothing to me and shouldnt to anyone else not named Mike Illitch).
Oooooh...not looking good for Z.
Zetterberg - $6.08
H. Sedin - $6.1
D. Sedin - $6.1
Parise - $6
Elias - $6
Toews - $6.3
P. Kane - $6.3
St Louis - $5.62
Stastny - $6.6
Kovalchuk - $6.7
B. Richards - $6.7
Semin - $6.7
N. Backstrom - $6.7 (wow)
M. Koivu - $6.75
Kessel - $5.4
Guys with similar or worse stats this season to Z:
Patrick Kane
Patrick Marleau
Corey Perry
Jerome Iginla
Alexander Ovechkin
Thomas Vanek
Vincent Lecavalier
Dany Heatley
Rick Nash
Ryan Getzlaf
Brad Richards
Shane Doan
Funny thing is if any of those guys had been available at the deadline, people here would have clamored for them to be acquired. Similarly, I think if Zetterberg happened to be a Columbus player, he would have been at the top of 90% of people's wish list here at the deadline, contract and everything.
Wow. You called it. Zetterberg IS an overpaid waste of Red Wing space.
MOD
Take another run at this issue, except this time spend more time discussing what has actually been said and less time making up ridiculously hyperbolic transmogrifications of what other people are saying.
Last edited by Fugu: 03-05-2012 at 08:15 AM.
Reason: ...
But lets look at comparable caphits at forward (i dont care how much a player is making in actual salary, it means nothing to me and shouldnt to anyone else not named Mike Illitch).
Actual salary matters to other players and to their agents. Do you think Abdelkader gives a crap about Zetterberg's 6M cap hit? No, what's important to him is that Zetterberg is making 7.75M this season. And the next. And the next...
Actual salary matters to other players and to their agents. Do you think Abdelkader gives a crap about Zetterberg's 6M cap hit? No, what's important to him is that Zetterberg is making 7.75M this season. And the next. And the next...
Hmm, good point. I will revise my statement to say "...no one should care what a player's actual salary is unless your name is <insert owner here>, a player agent or another player", but it sounds too clumsy.
and he is currently ranks #38 in points, plus is great on defense and our future Captain. the boards have become very negative, and some i agree with (Burtuzzi signing, how long some prospects are in the minors) but i would rather sign Burtuzzi to a 6 year 30 million dollar deal and than trade Zetterberg for a draft pick
Zetterberg has 48 points in his last 50 games(47 in his last 47 but 47 is kind of a weird sample size)
I like 19 points in the last 13 games. 13 is the same number as injured Datsyuk.
Now if you add thos numbers you get 32. Now 3+2 is 5, who is Lidstrom who also is injured at the moment. Now if you add 13 to Zetterberg's number who is 40. And then subtract 5, you'd get 48, witch is the points Zetterberg has in his last 50 games.
Love it when numbers come together.
Last edited by SirKillalot: 03-02-2012 at 11:12 PM.
I like 19 points in the last 13 games. 13 is the same number as injured Datsyuk.
Now if you add thos numbers you get 32. Now 3+2 is 5, who is Lidstrom who also is injured at the moment. Now if you add 5 and 13 to Zetterberg's number who is 40. You get 48, witch is the points Zetterberg has in his last 50 games.
Love it when numbers come together.
you mean if you subtract 5 from 13 and add 40 you get 48
Guys with similar or worse stats this season to Z:
Patrick Kane
Patrick Marleau
Corey Perry
Jerome Iginla
Alexander Ovechkin
Thomas Vanek
Vincent Lecavalier
Dany Heatley
Rick Nash
Ryan Getzlaf
Brad Richards
Shane Doan
Funny thing is if any of those guys had been available at the deadline, people here would have clamored for them to be acquired. Similarly, I think if Zetterberg happened to be a Columbus player, he would have been at the top of 90% of people's wish list here at the deadline, contract and everything.
I was just thinking of posting something like this before I noticed you beat me to it.
Another fun fact for people who think Franzen is the bummiest bum that ever bummed:
Player GP G A P +/- ESP PPP P/G
Johan Franzen 65 24 26 50 +24 37 13 .77
Jarome Iginla 64 24 26 50 -7 35 15 .78
There are a lot of forwards ahead of Z on the Best Of scale, unfortunately. Used to be an actual debate who was better, Pav or Z?
No debate anymore, hasnt been in years. But lets look at comparable caphits at forward (i dont care how much a player is making in actual salary, it means nothing to me and shouldnt to anyone else not named Mike Illitch).
Oooooh...not looking good for Z.
Zetterberg - $6.08
H. Sedin - $6.1
D. Sedin - $6.1
Parise - $6
Elias - $6
Toews - $6.3
P. Kane - $6.3
St Louis - $5.62
Stastny - $6.6
Kovalchuk - $6.7
B. Richards - $6.7
Semin - $6.7
N. Backstrom - $6.7 (wow)
M. Koivu - $6.75
Kessel - $5.4
Yeesh...
I understand your overall point but I have to ask why in the world are you wowed by Backstrom, like too low I hope? The guy was over a point a game player before injury, he had a bad year last year but has been pretty incredible over the other parts of his career. Washington has struggled at times but most credit their current predicament to him being out. Dude is a stud and he is young, now if this concussion becomes Crosby esk, okay but until then that is a very good deal.
Statsny is the biggest wow guy on that list for me, the third best center on his team.
By the way for about the last month now, Zetterberg has been playing better hockey than almost anyone you listed.
He's frustrated me beyond comprehension at times throughout the year, but like most on this forum, I don't think "trade" enters into the mind. Let's face it, he's the next captain and rightfully so. He's stepping his game up with Pav out, and being the leader we all know he can be.
Guys with similar or worse stats this season to Z:
Patrick Kane
Patrick Marleau
Corey Perry
Jerome Iginla
Alexander Ovechkin
Thomas Vanek
Vincent Lecavalier
Dany Heatley
Rick Nash
Ryan Getzlaf
Brad Richards
Shane Doan
Funny thing is if any of those guys had been available at the deadline, people here would have clamored for them to be acquired. Similarly, I think if Zetterberg happened to be a Columbus player, he would have been at the top of 90% of people's wish list here at the deadline, contract and everything.
Some of those people would have been, sure... but certainly not all. That said, if we're sliding down Zetterberg from his previous perch as an elite center to now being lumped in with Shane Doan and Vincent Lecavalier and Dany Heatley... I think that sort of proves my point. Z used to be a player who was clearly elite at his position. You used to be able to have a 'who's better, D or Z' conversation or a 'who's better, D and Z or Malkin and Crosby' conversation and actually have something to discuss. Those days appear to be gone. That doesn't mean Z sucks, it's just that he's slid from being an elite player to now being a very good player, and is trending towards "just" being good in a few years. When you combine that with his salary, which isn't going to change in the near future despite his production slipping, you have the issue that concerns me.
Furthermore, when one looks to acquire a player at a deadline it isn't usually to acquire a building block, core of the team kind of guy. It's to acquire a complimentary part. Sometimes a really good complimentary part, but a complimentary part nonetheless. The implication there is that those available players have some kind of flaw that makes them available in the first place. A mediocre contract, a character issue, questionable production, a concern about future play, etc.
