Well it's confirmed... Zetterberg IS nursing an injury. We all thought it to be his back, but NHL.com thinks it's his ankle (it's lower body). Either way, he's out there being a warrior trying to keep this team afloat.
When the Wings get healthier (mainly when Datsyuk and Lidstrom are back), they should sit Zetterberg until he's better. Perhaps until the playoffs start? Need him at 100% as well. Cleary and Quincy apparently are not 100% either.
Ah. So then 3 years ago did you compare Z to the best 30 scorers... or were, perhaps, your standards for him a bit higher.?
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That's who I compared him to. He's producing at a top 30 point rate. Thornton, Parise, Kopitar, Kane, Marleau... those guys are good. What the hell hockey are you watching?
You don't appear to be ready to address the issue of 'trends' then, it seems.
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Who expected Zetterberg to produce at top 10 his whole career?
Nobody, obviously... but you knew that. My point here is that there are a number of significant areas in which Zetterberg's play has declined. Goalscoring, ES GA, and faceoffs among them.
Where this becomes an issue is in determine the rate of decline, and then comparing that to the composition of his contract.
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The only trend I see is that when Datsyuk is out of the lineup, Zetterberg is our best player. If he's trending downward, as you'd like us to believe, then you better get ready for a rough go as a Red Wings fan in the coming years. Prepare thyself, for your long-winded posts will need much fortitude in the tides of a losing, non-playoff season.
Enh. I think you're exaggerating my position in an attempt to create a space where you can argue against something. I think Z's deal is okay, for now, but if he continues to slide offensively (in terms of goal scoring) and defensively (in terms of ES GA and faceoffs) we'll reach a point pretty soon where I won't be okay with what he makes.
That aside, thank you for making the case why this is an important issue.
HD means Cleary. The Cleary topic is spilling over into this one. HD said Clears' contract was bad because he hasn't played an 82 game season the entire time. I was just pointing out that could be said for several of our core roster guys.
You don't appear to be ready to address the issue of 'trends' then, it seems.
I have, in the past. We've been over this before, really. The major trend is no matter how many people respond to you with well-constructed posts, you pick it apart line by line with laughing faces and sarcasm. It doesn't really give much incentive to engage in the discussion.
You're so focused on Zetterberg's trends and his contract, yet you've never addressed this...
How did the large contracts of Gomez, Redden, and Drury hurt the New York Rangers in acquiring their preferred free agents: Gaborik and Brad Richards? They didn't hurt them at all. Through one loophole or another, they worked it out and got the players they wanted.
If Z's contract becomes an issue in regards to his play, they'll work it out. That's why I'm not worried. That's why the trend doesn't bother me. You keep talking about "concern" as if anybody who doesn't share it is an idiot.
HD means Cleary. The Cleary topic is spilling over into this one. HD said Clears' contract was bad because he hasn't played an 82 game season the entire time.
I didn't say anything of the sort, Fugu. You're getting pretty frazzled.
What actually happened was that you said it was a 'low blow' to think Holland could tell in advance who would or would not be able to stay healthy. I said, no, while a GM can't tell with everybody, when a guy like Cleary (in this case) misses as much time as he historically has and as consistently as he has, it's reasonable to assume he'll continue to miss time.
I didn't say anything of the sort, Fugu. You're getting pretty frazzled.
What actually happened was that you said it was a 'low blow' to think Holland could tell in advance who would or would not be able to stay healthy. I said, no, while a GM can't tell with everybody, when a guy like Cleary (in this case) misses as much time as he historically has and as consistently as he has, it's reasonable to assume he'll continue to miss time.
So hold all the players to the same standard. KH may have considered that Fil, Kronwall, Zetterberg, Cleary, Homer, Bertuzzi (although he was good last year) -- did I leave anyone out --- would miss significant time. Yet, all of these players have achieved their benchmarks.
I have, in the past. We've been over this before, really. The major trend is no matter how many people respond to you with well-constructed posts, you pick it apart line by line with laughing faces and sarcasm. It doesn't really give much incentive to engage in the discussion.
You appear to have a rather lower standard of 'well constructed post' than I do.
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You're so focused on Zetterberg's trends and his contract, yet you've never addressed this...
How did the large contracts of Gomez, Redden, and Drury hurt the New York Rangers in acquiring their preferred free agents: Gaborik and Brad Richards? They didn't hurt them at all. Through one loophole or another, they worked it out and got the players they wanted.
Did it hurt them in acquiring those guys, eventually? Not too much.
Now, how much did it hurt them for the years they carried those contracts before they figured out some way to dump them? Rather a bit more, eh?
It's not my contention that the Zetterberg contract is going to destroy the Wings and a franchise and render them wholly unable to be competitive in the NHL forevermore, either on the ice or in terms of ever signing any other players that might improve the team.
It is my contention, however, that there are some legitimate warning signs surrounding Z that should be noted and considered by those applying forethought to the Wings cap management and looking two or three years down the road. Heck, maybe 1 or 2 years.
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If Z's contract becomes an issue in regards to his play, they'll work it out. That's why I'm not worried. That's why the trend doesn't bother me. You keep talking about "concern" as if anybody who doesn't share it is an idiot.
Oh please. The people whose perspicacity I question are the ones who deny even the existence of decline. If you personally prefer to be laid back and unconcerned about possible future issues, hey... that's great. I'll keep that in mind when talking about stuff with you in the future.
I'm not exactly the person that sort of advice needs to be applied to, and regardless I'm not sure you're the person who ought to be offering it to anyone else.
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KH may have considered that Fil, Kronwall, Zetterberg, Cleary, Homer, Bertuzzi (although he was good last year) -- did I leave anyone out --- would miss significant time. Yet, all of these players have achieved their benchmarks.
A) Of course Holland considers health with all of his players.
B) What benchmarks did Cleary hit this year, exactly? That big 11 goal standard Babcock stuck to his locker to start the season?
C) What benchmarks are you even talking about, anyway? I'm curious if you have that worked out.
If you personally prefer to be laid back and unconcerned about possible future issues, hey... that's great. I'll keep that in mind when talking about stuff with you in the future.
Why would I get worked up about something that hasn't happened yet?
I live in the moment. I'm like a ****ing zen monk over here.
zetterberg looked like he got hurt pretty badly on the kings 3rd goal. looked like his left leg
but he came back out and played hard, which is what he's done for years, and what makes him worth the money we give him even if he slips roughly 10pts this season, which for the most part was his slump to start the season
Z has as many goals as Datsyuk and 4 less points. Albeit in 8 more games, but still.
He's clearly not 2008 Zetterberg but other than that one bad stretch he's been fine this year. He's definitely not anywhere near SweDrury level.
Good point. He's just slightly behind Datsyuk and Datsyuk was having a great year. I think it's time we lay off Zetterberg. He had a terrible first half of the year, there's no doubting that, but he's back now.
zetterberg looked like he got hurt pretty badly on the kings 3rd goal. looked like his left leg
He came back and played after that, so you'd think it can't be that bad.
When I saw him go down on that play with what looked an awful lot like a lateral knee buckling, I mentally started writing a big long post about how this is 2001 all over again, how they picked up some damn gypsy injury curse and we're just going to have to watch them get bounced in the first round because half the team is out and the other half is badly hobbled.
Very relieved to see him come back out after that hit. Doesn't mean he's not hurt, but it's a positive sign...
I have, in the past. We've been over this before, really. The major trend is no matter how many people respond to you with well-constructed posts, you pick it apart line by line with laughing faces and sarcasm. It doesn't really give much incentive to engage in the discussion.
You're so focused on Zetterberg's trends and his contract, yet you've never addressed this...
How did the large contracts of Gomez, Redden, and Drury hurt the New York Rangers in acquiring their preferred free agents: Gaborik and Brad Richards? They didn't hurt them at all. Through one loophole or another, they worked it out and got the players they wanted.
If Z's contract becomes an issue in regards to his play, they'll work it out. That's why I'm not worried. That's why the trend doesn't bother me. You keep talking about "concern" as if anybody who doesn't share it is an idiot.
Great post. These long front loaded contracts are no concern at all.
Illitch has money, so if all else fails, they can always Wade Redden these guys to Grand Rapids when they wash up.
Length of contract is not a concern for Detroit... long contracts are called cap circumvention for a reason!
