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Your backup goalie to Pittsburgh

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Old
02-19-2012, 02:11 PM
  #26
Flat Stanley
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Pens won't acquire a backup goalie, Brad Thiessen will get his shot, he was AHL goalie of the year last season going 35-8. This season he's 20-14, I think he deserves a chance in the NHL.

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Old
02-19-2012, 02:58 PM
  #27
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Pens can have Nittymaki for free. Just tell the Sharks you will take him and they will put him on waivers again (NOT re-entry).

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Old
02-19-2012, 03:04 PM
  #28
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Nittymaki has too big a cap hit.

Perchuskiy?

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Old
02-19-2012, 03:10 PM
  #29
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Montreal offer:

Budaj for Jonhson +7th

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Old
02-19-2012, 03:11 PM
  #30
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Leafs has 2, pick your poison.

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Old
02-19-2012, 03:14 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by palindrom View Post
Montreal offer:

Budaj for Jonhson +7th
Budaj's contract is too big for us.

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Old
02-19-2012, 03:17 PM
  #32
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Ty Conklin is rumored to be waived this week

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Old
02-19-2012, 03:21 PM
  #33
palindrom
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shrimper View Post
Budaj's contract is too big for us.
Budaj just make 550 000$ more than Jonhson

I think the root of the problem is Fleury's contract is too big.

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Old
02-19-2012, 03:22 PM
  #34
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Bryz? future considerations should do it.

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Old
02-19-2012, 03:22 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by palindrom View Post
Budaj just make 550 000$ more than Jonhson

I think the root of the problem is Fleury's contract is too big.
Yeah...Budaj doubles Johnson's contract...he's not good enough to warrant the difference in cost.

Fleury is worth every penny of his cap hit.

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Old
02-19-2012, 03:25 PM
  #36
palindrom
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Originally Posted by Big McLargehuge View Post
Yeah...Budaj doubles Johnson's contract...he's not good enough to warrant the difference in cost.

Fleury is worth every penny of his cap hit.
Did you compare Fleury to other goalies cap hit?

Maybe i am mistaken, but i think his performance/$ ratio is among the worst goalies in the league.

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Old
02-19-2012, 03:28 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by palindrom View Post
Budaj just make 550 000$ more than Jonhson

I think the root of the problem is Fleury's contract is too big.
What does Brent Johnson sucking this year have to do with Fleury's contract? (which he earns every penny of)

Pens won't waste an asset on a goalie. Johnson won't be re-signed and there are a million backups on the market every year.

They need to start just letting Johnson out to dry and not making Fleury replace him. The whole point of BJ playing is to let Fleury rest. Can't remember the last time he actually got to do that. Pretty sure every time Johnson is starting the team just expects a loss anyways.

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Old
02-19-2012, 03:28 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by palindrom View Post
Did you compare Fleury to other goalies cap hit?

Maybe i am mistaken, but i think his performance/$ ratio is among the worst goalies in the league.
Probably because you look at stats and don't see him play much.

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Old
02-19-2012, 03:36 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by palindrom View Post
Did you compare Fleury to other goalies cap hit?

Maybe i am mistaken, but i think his performance/$ ratio is among the worst goalies in the league.
Fleury is one of the best for his cap hit. $5M for him is a good value for his win % per season. He has 30 wins this season already and is a consistent force, in the past he's had 13, 40, 19, 35, 37 & 36 wins in a season. That's worth $5million.

Fleury is strong on blocker pads and good when players come to the net, his only weakness is his glove hand.

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Old
02-19-2012, 03:36 PM
  #40
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Probably because you look at stats and don't see him play much.
I admit i dont see him much.

But probably you are not looking at other goalies salary around the league. I watched a lot of amazing goalie with a cheap contract this year.

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Old
02-19-2012, 03:39 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by palindrom View Post
I admit i dont see him much.

But probably you are not looking at other goalies salary around the league. I watched a lot of amazing goalie with a cheap contract this year.
Such as? A lot of people were clamoring over Vokoun and his cap hit at Washington and look what happened. You'd be hard pressed to find many goaltenders at better value than Fleury.

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02-19-2012, 03:59 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by palindrom View Post
Did you compare Fleury to other goalies cap hit?

Maybe i am mistaken, but i think his performance/$ ratio is among the worst goalies in the league.
Leading his team to back-to-back cup finals, winning one of them, took the Pens on a 12 game ride last season and is currently top 3 in wins(and is 9th in win % among all active goaltenders).

ಠ_ಠ

I think is performance is fine.

He lets in soft goals occasionally, but he bounces back from them with aplomb.

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Old
02-19-2012, 04:14 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shrimper View Post
Fleury is one of the best for his cap hit. $5M for him is a good value for his win % per season. He has 30 wins this season already and is a consistent force, in the past he's had 13, 40, 19, 35, 37 & 36 wins in a season. That's worth $5million.

Fleury is strong on blocker pads and good when players come to the net, his only weakness is his glove hand.
Fleury and Luongo seem to be the 2 goalies that receive the most criticism for being over-rated by the airmchair coaches. I assume there is a pretty good reason why folks that are actually paid good money to coach/manage hockey teams have them at the top of their list of choices for Canada's goalie at the next Olympics.

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Old
02-19-2012, 04:27 PM
  #44
palindrom
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shrimper View Post
Fleury is one of the best for his cap hit. $5M for him is a good value for his win % per season. He has 30 wins this season already and is a consistent force, in the past he's had 13, 40, 19, 35, 37 & 36 wins in a season. That's worth $5million.

Fleury is strong on blocker pads and good when players come to the net, his only weakness is his glove hand.
Well, let just see how many Vezina vote MAF will get at the end of the year. (Voted by the 30 generals managers). In the last few seasons, they didnt seem impress by MAF winning %.

I mean if 5 000 000$ (10th goalies cap hit) is a great bargain that mean he worth lot more than that and he is among the very top goalies in the league.

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Old
02-19-2012, 04:37 PM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shrimper View Post
Such as? A lot of people were clamoring over Vokoun and his cap hit at Washington and look what happened. You'd be hard pressed to find many goaltenders at better value than Fleury.
Can you at least agree that Quick at 1 800 000$ offer a better performance/$ ratio than MAF at 5 000 000$ ?

Howard at 2 250 000$ ? (if winning % is what matter as you suggested above).

Nabokov at 570 000$ (he earn less $ than Jonhson!!)

Rinne at 3 400 000$ ?

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02-19-2012, 04:38 PM
  #46
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I love how you'll never hear a Penguins fan badmouth Marc-Andre Fleury...yet so many others will jump out to say how mediocre or bad he is.

He has the 10th highest cap hit of a goalie and he's a top 10 goalie in the league. Just because it's not a steal doesn't mean it's a liability.



And Pekka Rinne just got a 7 year/$49 million contract. He doesn't belong in any conversation about contract steals.

Seriously...what is the point of this argument? The Penguins back-up is struggling this year...so let's complain about the starter's contract?


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Old
02-19-2012, 04:51 PM
  #47
palindrom
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big McLargehuge View Post
I love how you'll never hear a Penguins fan badmouth Marc-Andre Fleury...yet so many others will jump out to say how mediocre or bad he is.

He has the 10th highest cap hit of a goalie and he's a top 10 goalie in the league. Just because it's not a steal doesn't mean it's a liability.


And Pekka Rinne just got a 7 year/$49 million contract. He doesn't belong in any conversation about contract steals.
Well, i am not saying he is bad, i just think Fleury salary should be more in the 3 500 000$-4 000 000$ range. At 5 000 000$ he is a bit overpaid in comparison to the average goalie salary. (anyway most high paid goalie doesn't deserve it.)

As for Rinne, he is a steal this season. Next season will be subject for another thread.

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Old
02-19-2012, 05:24 PM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by palindrom View Post
Well, i am not saying he is bad, i just think Fleury salary should be more in the 3 500 000$-4 000 000$ range. At 5 000 000$ he is a bit overpaid in comparison to the average goalie salary. (anyway most high paid goalie doesn't deserve it.)

As for Rinne, he is a steal this season. Next season will be subject for another thread.
Pens don't win the cup with an average goaltender. Just saying. Look at the entire package. Fleury is probably just a fair deal by today's contracts at 5.0...

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Old
02-19-2012, 05:26 PM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by palindrom View Post
Can you at least agree that Quick at 1 800 000$ offer a better performance/$ ratio than MAF at 5 000 000$ ?

Howard at 2 250 000$ ? (if winning % is what matter as you suggested above).

Nabokov at 570 000$ (he earn less $ than Jonhson!!)

Rinne at 3 400 000$ ?
Howard is a good deal but the other two are debatable. Nabokov had been out of the league for a while and was at first refusing to sign to the Isles, it's not wonder he's on a smaller deal. Although, I wouldn't have been surprised if Wang or Snow had of signed him to bigger. Finally, Rinne signed a 7 million $49million deal in November, he's not in this discussion.

This is pointless though, this is about Johnson, not Fleury.

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02-19-2012, 05:44 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by Shrimper View Post
Howard is a good deal but the other two are debatable. Nabokov had been out of the league for a while and was at first refusing to sign to the Isles, it's not wonder he's on a smaller deal. Although, I wouldn't have been surprised if Wang or Snow had of signed him to bigger. Finally, Rinne signed a 7 million $49million deal in November, he's not in this discussion.

This is pointless though, this is about Johnson, not Fleury.
I think it's useless to argue with palindrom on this topic. He believes elite goalies don't deserve the premium they're paid because statistically, the downgrade from a star goalie to a replacement-level goalie is much lesser than the downgrade from a star forward to a replacement-level forward. I love advanced stats myself and on average, he has a point.

But by definition very few teams will see "the average". palindrom, we hear you talk about Vokoun, Biron, Elliot, Quick all the time, where's the love for Dwayne Roloson and Mathieu Garon? Where's the love for Corey Crawford and Ray Emery? Tampa Bay and Chicago are textbook examples of your philosophy. TB will likely miss the playoffs. CHI is statistically destroying the league in almost every area other than goaltending, and with average goaltending instead of replacement-level goaltending they'd be challenging for the President's Trophy instead of fighting with Calgary and Phoenix for a playoff spot (Niemi instead of Hjalmarsson? the Sharks outsmarted the Hawks that summer).

by the way, how about those prized examples -- Vokoun, Quick. Are their teams currently in the playoffs?

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