This team has a lot of talent but you still need coaching.
He always gets out coached by Doc.
D'antoni had a lot of great teams in Phx and did nothing. He hates coaching defense. In Phoenix in the playoffs the score was always 122-118 or something. Dallas and San Antonio destroyed him. I would love to bring in Flip Saunders for this team...
IMO Melo and any coach/team that aren't about Melo being the hero are not a fit.
I wanted to believe it could work. I have to admit that I convinced myself it was a good idea. I now believe Denver fans were right all along - Melo is a 6'9" Allen Iverson. With less hustle.
ME-lo has killed Linsanity and it's one of the saddest things I've had to watch in sports in a long time.
IMO Melo and any coach/team that aren't about Melo being the hero are not a fit.
I wanted to believe it could work. I have to admit that I convinced myself it was a good idea. I now believe Denver fans were right all along - Melo is a 6'9" Allen Iverson. With less hustle.
ME-lo has killed Linsanity and it's one of the saddest things I've had to watch in sports in a long time.
I figured I'd give Melo a few weeks. In those few weeks, I've been watching him away from the ball. He's actually not as bad as he was in the beginning of the season.
My beef is with Stat. The guy is such a fraud. All he does is talk, complain, chuck bricks, complain, not play defense, complain, miss foul shots, complain.
He never moves without the ball. Even on fast break opportunities, he loafs. He never boxes anybody out.
Let's be honest:
The Knicks were a mediocre team before Stat.
The Knicks were a mediocre team with Stat.
The Knicks were a mediocre team with Stat and Melo.
The Knicks were damn fun to watch without Stat and Melo.
I don't really follow, watch or really have a strong knowledge or interest in basketball but it's apparent to me that the Knicks are really poorly coached.
I don't really follow, watch or really have a strong knowledge or interest in basketball but it's apparent to me that the Knicks are really poorly coached.
Here's my thing with Dantoni:
I dont think he does anything that prevents the Knick from winning. His style/strategy has proven to work before. And he is a smart guy.
The problem is that whatever he brought with him to NY hasnt worked. He's had so many different rosters. He's been given carte blanche by the ownership and his GM's.
On top of all that, he coaches in a conference that is extremely top-heavy. It's a garbage conference, yet his teams continue to lose to "lesser" teams, and at home no less.
Like I said, he does nothing that prevents them from winning, but really offers nothing that will at a minimum prevent the team from being grossly inconsistent.
The players should take the blame, but you cant fire the players.
The problem with D'Antoni, is his system is made for the PG to be the main guy along with a offensive big man for a PnR. (Nash + Amare)
The PG is the King of the offense and everyone around him is his Pawns. When you have a guy like Melo included, it ****s everything up. At this point in his career he's not going to adjust to being a 20 ppg on 15 shots or so, like a Joe Johnson was in Phoenix. His ego is too big. Unless he's willing to be like that, I don't see this working. Pringles revolves around PG play and effective ball movement. When you have an isolation player like Melo, who also lacks playmaking abilities, it's a recipe for disaster. Not to mention, having Lin-Melo-Amare on the floor at the same time is 3/5 spots a defensive liability.
A lineup of Lin-Fields-Anthony-STAT-Chandler was a -8 for the season so far.
I dont think he does anything that prevents the Knick from winning. His style/strategy has proven to work before. And he is a smart guy.
The problem is that whatever he brought with him to NY hasnt worked. He's had so many different rosters. He's been given carte blanche by the ownership and his GM's.
On top of all that, he coaches in a conference that is extremely top-heavy. It's a garbage conference, yet his teams continue to lose to "lesser" teams, and at home no less.
Like I said, he does nothing that prevents them from winning, but really offers nothing that will at a minimum prevent the team from being grossly inconsistent.
The players should take the blame, but you cant fire the players.
Dantoni's done IMO. He's been here long enough.
Oh, he's done after this year unless this team makes the ECF or something.
With Walsh gone now, he has no one on his side in the organization. I'm honestly not even sure he'd want to come back, anyways. Melo vs. D'Antoni..and we all know who would win this battle.
Let's be honest, that was a poor hire by Donnie Walsh.
I, and many other Knick fans HATED that hire.
I thought they should have went with Mark Jackson. Or even Avery Johnson.
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The problem with Melo, is he just doesn't fit this system.
D'Antoni wants a bunch of 3 point shooters to spread the floor. That's not what Carmelo is. Neither is Fields or Lin.
He is making an effort to not iso so much and move the ball, but all that has done is make him ineffective.
The kind of coach that needs to be brought in is one that doesn't ask the PG to be the star of the show.
I'm of the opinion that an offense should be ran through the best player on the court.
The Knicks roster is too good to be 18-21. They have great pieces -- two star scorers....a great presence in the middle...a very deep bench with athleticism, 3-point shooters and a shut down defender. They have two very good point guards.
The coach has been given everything. Pat Riley was the Mike Danotni of his era with the Showtime Lakers and he won multiple rings. He came to NY, and all us Knicks fans thought we'd be a run and gun team with Ewing, Jackson, Gerald and some spare pieces.
Within a week, we were all shocked. The Knicks were beating people up. Outhustling them. Outrebounding them. Fast breaks didnt exist. I mean, this was a Pat Riley team with no fast break ability. Starks, Mason, Oakley and X-Man were mugging people and diving into the stands right after.
Thats coaching. Riley flipped the script on the NBA and the Knicks were badder than the Pistons overnight.
MILWAUKEE — Carmelo Anthony has a long way to go before ever receiving the compliment Mike D’Antoni bestowed recently on Tyson Chandler as the Knicks' “most irreplaceable player.’’
On the flip side, Anthony has looked more like their most replaceable player.
It showed in San Antonio on Wednesday when the Knicks looked like all the other defense-poor teams of years past without Chandler.
In games Anthony has played this season, discounting the first five minutes of the Utah win, the Knicks are 11-17. When Anthony has been out, the Knicks are 7-4.
Tyson is our best player, as i've been saying all year. The game against SA showed it- they put on a pick and roll clinic and since nobody except Tyson can play defense we were abused.
Tyson is our best player, as i've been saying all year. The game against SA showed it- they put on a pick and roll clinic and since nobody except Tyson can play defense we were abused.
Melo and Stat have been trash.
Is it just me or are they the only Knicks that don't dive for loose balls?
The problem is that whatever he brought with him to NY hasnt worked. He's had so many different rosters. He's been given carte blanche by the ownership and his GM's.
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Originally Posted by German Way of War
The Knicks roster is too good to be 18-21. They have great pieces -- two star scorers....a great presence in the middle...a very deep bench with athleticism, 3-point shooters and a shut down defender. They have two very good point guards.
The coach has been given everything.
Where do you come up with this stuff? He's had so many different rosters? He's been given carte blanche? He's been given everything?
That's just one outrageous distortion of the truth after another, IMO.
Here's Mike D'Antoni's tenure with the Knicks, from what I've observed. He comes in 2008 with the understanding that the Knicks had to spend several seasons unloading themselves from the trash or underachieving dolts assembled by Thomas. That means you can't reasonably take issue with the team being bad in 2008-09 or 2009-10. About the only players on the team that D'Antoni probably wanted were Lee and a rookie Gallo. Maybe Will Chandler, too. The rest of the team was crap. Nate Robinson, Tim Thomas, Al Harrington, Q Rich, Duhon... just a bunch of flawed bench players. Flawed bench players and fat loser Eddy Curry.
Finally, by 2010-11, they had gotten rid of most of the garbage. It was only at that point, two seasons in, that the slate had been cleared for D'Antoni. Essentially, he had 2-3 players on the team that were "his" guys, Gallo chief among them. Then what happens? The Knicks sign Stoudemire, a move that was clearly driven by Dolan rather than Walsh and D'Antoni, as everyone seems to forgotten how often Stoudemire and D'Antoni failed to see eye to eye in Phoenix. The Suns' best playoff run, when they made the WCF? They did that with STAT sidelined by injury. But still, just getting Stat and adding Felton, with it being clear that there was still a lot of work to do in terms of building the roster, the Knicks were playing .500 ball. They were showing some signs. So, then, again Dolan meddles, and they trade the only guy that was really D'Antoni's guy in Gallo, plus a bunch of nice depth, for a guy who has done nothing but prove, year after year, that he's selfish, lazy, and a loser.
When you say D'Antoni's been given carte blanche, that he's been given everything, it makes me wonder what I've missed. From what I've been watching, at no point has D'Antoni ever had a roster that he wanted or been given the opportunity to do things his way. From my perspective, it seems like D'Antoni got screwed royally, and that he took the job because of a lot of promises made to him. Promises that I suspect were broken repeatedly over the last couple of years.
And I'm not saying any of this because I love D'Antoni or because I think he's some great coach. I think he's a solid coach, but I was never a huge fan of his or anything. It seems painfully clear, however, that he has absolutely no say in anything that this team does.
Quote:
Pat Riley was the Mike Danotni of his era with the Showtime Lakers and he won multiple rings. He came to NY, and all us Knicks fans thought we'd be a run and gun team with Ewing, Jackson, Gerald and some spare pieces.
Within a week, we were all shocked. The Knicks were beating people up. Outhustling them. Outrebounding them. Fast breaks didnt exist. I mean, this was a Pat Riley team with no fast break ability. Starks, Mason, Oakley and X-Man were mugging people and diving into the stands right after.
Thats coaching. Riley flipped the script on the NBA and the Knicks were badder than the Pistons overnight.
What kind of a comparison is this? Talk about carte blanche. That's what Riley had when he came to the Knicks, unlike D'Antoni. Furthermore, Ewing was the only big name on those teams. These were a bunch of role players, underdogs, under appreciated misfit players that were having trouble just sticking in the league. They bought into Riley's system because he was the only guy giving them a chance. You're going to compare that to Anthony and Stoudemire? To the guy who just ****ed over his coach and teammates for an entire season just so he could baby his way to the team of his choice? To the guy who has spent his entire career refusing to adjust his game to help his team?
No one on the Knicks other than Ewing was going to win any battle against Pat Riley. Pat Riley was a bigger name, a bigger draw than John Starks or Anthony Mason. Mike D'Antoni is battling the players, the fans, and his own owner, since none of them are interested in doing what he wants to do.
I also don't understand why you thought the Knicks were going to be run and gun when Riley got hired, since by that point, Ewing's knees were already forcing him to change his game. I know plenty of Knick fans who would have disagreed with your opinion about what they expected Riley to do. Riley emphasized run and gun when he had the greatest point guard of all-time and one of the most talented offensive teams of all-time at his disposal. Whether it was Oakley, Starks and Mason or Jackson and Gerald Wilkins, it wasn't nearly the same thing.
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Originally Posted by BroadwayBlues
The problem with Melo, is he just doesn't fit this system.
D'Antoni wants a bunch of 3 point shooters to spread the floor. That's not what Carmelo is. Neither is Fields or Lin.
Okay, so then why not tell us what kind of system Anthony would fit in? What good team in the NBA plays a system that would fit Anthony?
Better yet, name one championship or even contending team in the last 30 years that revolved around a player whose game revolves around not passing the ball and rarely giving a significant effort defensively. Just one.
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He is making an effort to not iso so much and move the ball, but all that has done is make him ineffective.
When has he ever been effective (assuming that effective means winning, not racking up individual stats)? By my count, in his 8 year NBA career, he was effective for about one 2 month span, since his teams were ousted from the playoffs in the first round every year except one.
Speaking of effective, he doesn't even drive to the rim anymore unless the lane is unprotected, despite the fact that that's what made him the dangerous scorer that he was. Not crossover dribbles into 18 foot jumpshots all game long.
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The kind of coach that needs to be brought in is one that doesn't ask the PG to be the star of the show.
I'm of the opinion that an offense should be ran through the best player on the court.
Let the PG get that player the ball.
So, in other words, you want to find a coach whose philosophy goes against what is clearly the prevailing and dominant philosophy in the NBA right now, since at no time in NBA history has the game been more focused on the PG position than it is now. In fact, the only coaches in the league who don't run things through their point guard all game are the coaches who have one or more of the league's best non-PG players on their roster (OKC/MIA/LA). But then, those players all move the ball and play defense, since those things are essential towards winning, and Anthony doesn't like to do either of those things, which is why he's very rarely the best player on the court.
That's the problem with the average Knick fan, and Dolan, as well. They want to treat Anthony like he's in the same class as James, Bryant, Durant, but he's not. He's nowhere near their class, because they are all excellent playmakers and defenders. His entire game is based around doing things that inhibit a team from winning. Heck, he can't even be troubled enough to get into the same kind of shape as the guys he wants to be compared to. These guys are all in incredible physical condition. He looks fatter and less toned than ever.
Then the fans get pissed off when he doesn't match their unrealistically high expectations, despite the fact that he's been in the league for approaching a decade, and his entire career (and the careers of other players in recent NBA history whose style matches his) is a testament to the fact that his game is not conducive to winning.
It doesn't matter how many excuses you make, the facts remain the same: no matter the coach, no matter the system, they all are based, one way or another, on ball movement. The manner in which they move the ball may change, but ball movement is key for all of them. You cannot win in basketball if you don't move the ball or defend, particularly on the perimeter.
No team with Carmelo Anthony as the top player will ever win a championship, no matter the coach or the system. Carmelo Anthony is a system killer.
